The Doctor Who/Torchwood Thread

TreePixie said:
Torchwood was fabulous - this was a Jane Espensen penned script.

Even John Barrowman, who I usually think does only a passable acting job, was excellent tonight.

Typical take-no-prisoners Torchwood style.

"You're Welsh. You wouldnt notice if the vowels were missing."
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Good episode. Had a bit of the original Torchwood run feel with the Jack flashbacks. Loved the "team work" of how they were able to resolve the hostage predicament.





Now on to Doctor Who. Watched the best of Doctor Who on BBC America last weekend. I wished at the least they would have made it an all encompassing special featuring the Eccleston & Tennant Doctors as well. I realise that Smith is the current incarnation and all but it came across too much IMO as if they are pushing him as "the greatest Doctor of all". The Best of the Monsters special is on later and of course will focus on the monsters that Smith's Doctor has encountered. Needs to be more encompassing as well. Just my two cents though.
 
Eye of Ra said:
Good episode. Had a bit of the original Torchwood run feel with the Jack flashbacks. Loved the "team work" of how they were able to resolve the hostage predicament.
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Which just goes to show that they could easily get rid of a whole bunch of the new characters and take it back to Jack and Gwen. Jilly Kitzinger and Oswald Danes have not been in the last two episodes, and no one's even missed them.

I really enjoyed Barrowman last night. Generally, Jack is sort of a meh character for me, he's ok, but I don't see any real acting going on. He was really wonderful last night.

Now on to Doctor Who. Watched the best of Doctor Who on BBC America last weekend. I wished at the least they would have made it an all encompassing special featuring the Eccleston & Tennant Doctors as well. I realise that Smith is the current incarnation and all but it came across too much IMO as if they are pushing him as "the greatest Doctor of all". The Best of the Monsters special is on later and of course will focus on the monsters that Smith's Doctor has encountered. Needs to be more encompassing as well. Just my two cents though.
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TOTALLY agree. When it instantly became clear that the "best of" was limited to the Smith era, I was rather annoyed. With rare exceptions (Vincent and the Doctor, The Doctor's Wife, and River Song), most of the Smith era has been relatively mediocre Doctor Who. And some of it (I'm looking at you Gangers) has been a horrific and boring mess.
 
TreePixie said:
I really enjoyed Barrowman last night. Generally, Jack is sort of a meh character for me, he's ok, but I don't see any real acting going on. He was really wonderful last night.
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Jack lost his "edge" as a character once the producers decided they would play up John Barrowman's homosexually as part of the character. If they would have kept playing the character "omnisexual" aka sleeps with anything with a pulse male, female or inhuman alien, the character would still be interesting in certain aspects. It's the sexual tension & unresolved emotions between Jack & Gwen that makes everyone like the two as characters and cheer for them. Jack's omnisexual nature also plays/played into his cosmic grifter persona and in combination to his immortality is what makes/made him unpredictable at times and leads him to resolve problems at times in an untidy matter. Playing only into just his male attractions have made him as you say "meh" & somewhat predictable in my opinion. Now when any male that can be said to be decently attractive pops up in a story now it seems like Jack is getting involved with or has been involved with them. They need to throw in some females or some funky looking aliens, preferably non human in appearance, that he has been involved with just to make him interesting again.
 
Eye of Ra said:
Jack lost his "edge" as a character once the producers decided they would play up John Barrowman's homosexually as part of the character. If they would have kept playing the character "omnisexual" aka sleeps with anything with a pulse male, female or inhuman alien, the character would still be interesting in certain aspects. It's the sexual tension & unresolved emotions between Jack & Gwen that makes everyone like the two as characters and cheer for them. Jack's omnisexual nature also plays/played into his cosmic grifter persona and in combination to his immortality is what makes/made him unpredictable at times and leads him to resolve problems at times in an untidy matter. Playing only into just his male attractions have made him as you say "meh" & somewhat predictable in my opinion. Now when any male that can be said to be decently attractive pops up in a story now it seems like Jack is getting involved with or has been involved with them. They need to throw in some females or some funky looking aliens, preferably non human in appearance, that he has been involved with just to make him interesting again.
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That's a point I hadn't considered, but you're right in that I liked Jack more when he was in Doctor Who...more dynamic. Perhaps part of that was brought in last night in the scene at the window with Angelo discussing what Jack would do to the woman across the way. The scene worked, and it seemed like Jack worked better with the awareness brought in that at least sex with women was possible. I like to think of him as omnisexual - as you said, anything with a pulse, alien or human. You're also dead on that it better fits his personality as a cosmic grifter...a man who will essentially do anything to get the con over.
 
TreePixie said:
That's a point I hadn't considered, but you're right in that I liked Jack more when he was in Doctor Who...more dynamic. Perhaps part of that was brought in last night in the scene at the window with Angelo discussing what Jack would do to the woman across the way. The scene worked, and it seemed like Jack worked better with the awareness brought in that at least sex with women was possible. I like to think of him as omnisexual - as you said, anything with a pulse, alien or human. You're also dead on that it better fits his personality as a cosmic grifter...a man who will essentially do anything to get the con over.
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In Children of Earth, I think that point was made brilliantly by way of the introduction of Jack having a daughter & how that tragically played out with his grandson. Jack doesn't see or value things the way normal mortals do, living as many lifetimes as he has, which is why he is eager to regain his mortality. If Torchwood gets picked up,the issues/feelings that his daughter now has about him is something that would be interesting to explore. Especially if she has decided to become someone dedicated to destroying Jack. Also you have to think with Jack being immortal & omnisexual and with access to tech & recourses that allow him to travel to pretty much any place or time in the universe, how many other children/descendants does he possibly have out there? Something to consider.
 
Eye of Ra said:
In Children of Earth, I think that point was made brilliantly by way of the introduction of Jack having a daughter & how that tragically played out with his grandson. Jack doesn't see or value things the way normal mortals do, living as many lifetimes as he has, which is why he is eager to regain his mortality. If Torchwood gets picked up,the issues/feelings that his daughter now has about him is something that would be interesting to explore. Especially if she has decided to become someone dedicated to destroying Jack. Also you have to think with Jack being immortal & omnisexual and with access to tech & recourses that allow him to travel to pretty much any place or time in the universe, how many other children/descendants does he possibly have out there? Something to consider.
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Yes...Gwen asked him how many children he had the other night, and he didn't answer.

Also have to wonder if he's got alien/Boeshane mixed kids, and what sort of plot opportunities that might bring into play.
 
Just thinking about The Blessing, which first came up during episode 6 of Torchwood. When Jack was being tortured during episode 7, they referred to his blood as a blessing.

I'm wondering if Jack's blood is "The Blessing" and therefore responsible for Miracle Day in some way or another. I haven't figured out how that would make him suddenly not immortal, but I'm thinking there's got to be some connection there between The Blessing and his blood.
 
TreePixie said:
Just thinking about The Blessing, which first came up during episode 6 of Torchwood. When Jack was being tortured during episode 7, they referred to his blood as a blessing.

I'm wondering if Jack's blood is "The Blessing" and therefore responsible for Miracle Day in some way or another. I haven't figured out how that would make him suddenly not immortal, but I'm thinking there's got to be some connection there between The Blessing and his blood.
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I'm thinking it is. And if it is, then whatever process (alien obviously) that was employed to make everyone else immortal must cancel out his immortality since his blood/DNA is the source. That's my theory for now until the actual reveal.
 
Eye of Ra said:
I'm thinking it is. And if it is, then whatever process (alien obviously) that was employed to make everyone else immortal must cancel out his immortality since his blood/DNA is the source. That's my theory for now until the actual reveal.
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I'm trying to work out how they got it spread around the earth and activated everywhere at the same time. (Also why, but that's a different wondering).

They very deliberately did not refer to Jack's blood as THE blessing, which to me is very typical Davies work (though I know Espensen penned the ep). He loves to drop hints that are slightly off.

But that's what I'm going with too, also because it gets back to that "Oh, Jack's fucked up history again" sort of thing they love to play with.
 
TreePixie said:
I'm trying to work out how they got it spread around the earth and activated everywhere at the same time. (Also why, but that's a different wondering).

They very deliberately did not refer to Jack's blood as THE blessing, which to me is very typical Davies work (though I know Espensen penned the ep). He loves to drop hints that are slightly off.

But that's what I'm going with too, also because it gets back to that "Oh, Jack's fucked up history again" sort of thing they love to play with.
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I'm really curious to know how the Children of Earth would have played out if:


1. They would have fully played out a relationship between Jack & Gwen as they obviously were thinking of doing prior to playing up more on Barrowman's sexuality as part of Jack's character.

2. Had Gwen become pregnant by Jack instead of Rhys (whom they more than likely would have killed off if the Jack/Gwen relationship had been allowed to take place) and how different Jack's motivations and actions would have been in trying to protect his unborn child.
 
Eye of Ra said:
I'm really curious to know how the Children of Earth would have played out if:


1. They would have fully played out a relationship between Jack & Gwen as they obviously were thinking of doing prior to playing up more on Barrowman's sexuality as part of Jack's character.

2. Had Gwen become pregnant by Jack instead of Rhys (whom they more than likely would have killed off if the Jack/Gwen relationship had been allowed to take place) and how different Jack's motivations and actions would have been in trying to protect his unborn child.
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Interesting ideas! In some ways the relationship between Jack & Gwen reminds me of the one I have with a friend named John. We're fiercely loyal and protective towards one another, and the love we share is deep and binding, but it's not romantic love. I understand that kind of platonic/not platonic/platonic thing they have going on.

But Children of Earth would indeed have been fascinating if Gwen had been pregnant by Jack instead of Rhys. Though I do like Rhys so I'm glad he didnt get killed off.
 
So Jack's blood is clearly somehow a factor in "the Miracle" and now we have the alien tech factor with the Null Field tech, which clearly could & somehow has canceled out Jack's immortality. Now all that remains is learning who or what is behind everything, exactly what their motives are & how they put everything together to accomplish their goal.
 
Eye of Ra said:
So Jack's blood is clearly somehow a factor in "the Miracle" and now we have the alien tech factor with the Null Field tech, which clearly could & somehow has canceled out Jack's immortality. Now all that remains is learning who or what is behind everything, exactly what their motives are & how they put everything together to accomplish their goal.
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Yep, it gets back to that The Blessing/blessing thing I think we talked about. Poor Jack, stuck with Nancy Drew when he needs help. I hope she can step up her game.

LOVED John DeLancie as Shapiro. The line about the Red Baron and having Snoopy up Jack's ass cracked me up. As did Gwen's line about not being English and not being a girl.

Never fuck with a Welshwoman. We Celtic types are stubborn and fierce when we know we're right.
 
TreePixie said:
Yep, it gets back to that The Blessing/blessing thing I think we talked about. Poor Jack, stuck with Nancy Drew when he needs help. I hope she can step up her game.

LOVED John DeLancie as Shapiro. The line about the Red Baron and having Snoopy up Jack's ass cracked me up. As did Gwen's line about not being English and not being a girl.

Never fuck with a Welshwoman. We Celtic types are stubborn and fierce when we know we're right.
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Esther will come through. My guess will be she will stop the car in her panic to try to get Jack to tell her what she should do and will somehow activate the Null Panel Jack has in his pocket, canceling out the effects of the gunshot wound he has received.


John DeLancie & Nana Visitor vets of the newer Star Trek series & DS9. So far all the well known guest apperances for this have been killed off or taken away (Ernie Hudson). I wonder if DeLancie's character will be the same way or survive? Yes the Snoopy & Red Baron crack was funny. Gwen's jabs when she is pissed are always funny.
 
Eye of Ra said:
Esther will come through. My guess will be she will stop the car in her panic to try to get Jack to tell her what she should do and will somehow activate the Null Panel Jack has in his pocket, canceling out the effects of the gunshot wound he has received.


John DeLancie & Nana Visitor vets of the newer Star Trek series & DS9. So far all the well known guest apperances for this have been killed off or taken away (Ernie Hudson). I wonder if DeLancie's character will be the same way or survive? Yes the Snoopy & Red Baron crack was funny. Gwen's jabs when she is pissed are always funny.
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Yeah, I'm still shivering over Mare Winningham getting crushed in her car.

Gwen is generally written with a very real Welsh flavor. I suppose since RTD is Welsh that's not a surprise.
 
Let's Kill Hitler - spoilerish

Nice new coat on the Doctor. Rory gets better all the time. River's timeline is....truly weird. The regeneration thing with her was a bit of a red herring in the Astronaut/Moon episodes, since she got rid of all her lives at once.

Amy continues to be a cipher to me...I just don't really get what the fuss is about.

And what about poor Hitler, left locked in a cupboard for no apparent reason?

Who the hell were the miniaturized people in the robots and how did they get access to all the data they had?

It was a short episode and it seemed to end rather abruptly, I thought. Some interesting ideas, but Moffat needs to start pulling the threads together soon.
 
TreePixie said:
Nice new coat on the Doctor. Rory gets better all the time. River's timeline is....truly weird. The regeneration thing with her was a bit of a red herring in the Astronaut/Moon episodes, since she got rid of all her lives at once.

Amy continues to be a cipher to me...I just don't really get what the fuss is about.

And what about poor Hitler, left locked in a cupboard for no apparent reason?

Who the hell were the miniaturized people in the robots and how did they get access to all the data they had?

It was a short episode and it seemed to end rather abruptly, I thought. Some interesting ideas, but Moffat needs to start pulling the threads together soon.
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Interesting episode but I didn't like that it seemed rushed/forced as far as River's timeline/backstory was concerned. If anything they should have just introduced the trouble prone childhood friend & had her participate in some of the adventures & then save the reveal for a big season end for the eventual confrontation with the Silence/Demons Run Army that's obviously coming since they revealed that there is a connection between the two.

As far as the miniaturized individuals go from what I gathered they are some form of time cops coming from some future time point from after the Doctor has been killed. I'm also assuming that they were formed in opposition to the Silence/Demons Run Army which explains the how they would be in possession of all that data. I'm also guessing that they will more than likely play a part in the coming confrontation at season's end.
 
Eye of Ra said:
Interesting episode but I didn't like that it seemed rushed/forced as far as River's timeline/backstory was concerned. If anything they should have just introduced the trouble prone childhood friend & had her participate in some of the adventures & then save the reveal for a big season end for the eventual confrontation with the Silence/Demons Run Army that's obviously coming since they revealed that there is a connection between the two.

As far as the miniaturized individuals go from what I gathered they are some form of time cops coming from some future time point from after the Doctor has been killed. I'm also assuming that they were formed in opposition to the Silence/Demons Run Army which explains the how they would be in possession of all that data. I'm also guessing that they will more than likely play a part in the coming confrontation at season's end.
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Completely agree on the rushed thing. I thought "Mels" did a good job being Riverish, but then when she became River, all of a sudden the Riverishness was gone, which was kind of weird, and sort of not like a Doctor regeneration. She starts Riverish, turns not Riverish, and then will grow into being River?

I gathered the time cop thing but that was not in the script at all. It would be better to reveal River slowly than rush it and fuck it up.

I also thought in Silence in the Library/Forests of the Dead, that River "came from" the 51st century, but now she was born in the 21st. While I get that she time travels, I was pretty sure she had come *from* the 51st century originally, and that's also mentioned in the Weeping Angels episodes, and that's when Stormcage is. I think Moffat is going to have to be very careful not crossing himself up here.
 
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