Steve Nash Double Swirling Gone Wrong!!

[The Dark King]

All my life before I got to the US, I always thought of Venessa and Smokey as white from a physical viewpoint. (not to talk of people like Mariah and Nicole)


One girl whos dad is from my country married a White woman here in the US.

When they travelled to his hometown, this girl(who was half white/half black) was called white throughout

The villagers joked with the dad about how his wife had a child that looked 100% like her and nothing like him

She was shocked because in North America, she was considered a Black woman by most people

now most people on her dads side thought she was just as white as her mom and couldnt tell the difference between both of them

So its ok to be considered white with a black parent? What country are you from? Sounds like third world racial ascension to me.

 

[Iykeg]

So its ok to be considered white with a black parent? What country are you from? Sounds like third world racial ascension to me.

Why not? Its perfectly fine to consider them white and vice versa

"race" is a projection of perception

Since many African ethnic groups can tell the difference between themselves and other ethnic groups, if a person is half or 3 quater white for example, they stick out immediately.

the average person would project what they think the person looks like to them (white) on that person


It has nothing to do with ascension or descension

 

[Iykeg]

The problem with this issue is that people try to impose American lenses on everything. Many people dont even see it as "race" per say

Its just a physical description of a person

The average Amhara or Tigrinya sitting on the Ethiopian highlands probably does not consider a Yoruba man his "race" in any form of fashion



Americans might find this hard to understand though

 

[Tamstrong]

Well stately, and I completely agree with you Tami.

Thanks, Swirl.

@Tamstrong

Did you even realize that your post is basically conveying the idea that the term "black" is meaningless

Since you are suggesting that "black" should not even represent a description of a person from a physical standpoint, I hope you realize that "black" is not an indication of a similar culture, heritage, tradition, history, language, experiences or any other commonality that I can think of.

If it is not even a physical description then what is it?

I don't know where you got all that crap. I never said "black" is meaningless. To many people, being black is more than what they look like. Your definition may be different, but that's your prerogative just like another person's defintion of their blackness is their prerogative.

Tami, you are so right in that it seems to be society, and in particular whites, who confer racial identity upon people, precisely as White America perceives you. The operative point though is that the one drop rule comes into play because, as soon as they have "proof" that the person has Black blood, they will be "re-classified" as Black. The crystallizing event for me occurred in college. I was assisting a student in the computer center of the college. When she left, a white professor, who was talking with another administrator actually asked me, "is she white or black". I was first shocked but immediately answered that she was black. In other words they were looking for confirmation, despite her appearance. That could have taken place if they had seen her father or mother, both of whom were Black, or it could come from an external source, like my confirming her race. In either case it would satisfy the "one drop" rule and the person would be considered Black.

Obviously, you know about this history in the states, and even the categories that were created so that whites would know the racial identity of Blacks, and not just consider their appearance. Mulattoes, 1/2 Black blood, quadroons, 1/4 Black blood and octroons, 1/8 Black blood. So, indeed there are Americans who would consider the marriage of a 1/4 Black man and a white woman as an interracial marriage.

The saddest part is, whether we like it or not, it's the reality of the situation in America & it has to be dealt with because it doesn't seem to be going anywhere any time soon.

Because its the parameters in which exist at this point in history. Racial definition is woven into the American fabric I don't get why you're so surprised.

Sad but true.

 

[orejon4]

Why not? Its perfectly fine to consider them white and vice versa

"race" is a projection of perception

Since many African ethnic groups can tell the difference between themselves and other ethnic groups, if a person is half or 3 quater white for example, they stick out immediately.

the average person would project what they think the person looks like to them (white) on that person


It has nothing to do with ascension or descension

It's so different from the US, where whites and blacks are both trained to look at facial features, hair texture, and more, because of the acute sensitivity on matters of race. That's why I think lots of people are disagreeing with you. Over here, people look at the fullness of Mariah's lips, her wavy (straightened hair), butt/hips, everything and can tell she has some black ancestry. It's like the flip side of the African example you noted where people see the whiteness of a biracial child stand out. Over here people are used to others opting out of the black race if they can, and so we pay close attention to every characteristic, and we see the black features standing out, even if they're hard to detect to someone from outside.

 

[The Dark King]

The problem with this issue is that people try to impose American lenses on everything. Many people dont even see it as "race" per say

Its just a physical description of a person

The average Amhara or Tigrinya sitting on the Ethiopian highlands probably does not consider a Yoruba man his "race" in any form of fashion



Americans might find this hard to understand though

Now that's just horseshit. Especially in third world countries where being considered black or white is the difference between a life riddled with hardship and one of ease. The way you speak(it may not be your intention) comes across as a desperation to be distanced from being considered "black" since it holds such a negative perception world wide. Again where you from exactly?

 

[The Dark King]

About to be done with this debate but I wanted you to note this


It doesnt even matter if it is Fox News or any other American news stations. They refer to white looking Children of black people as white


Fox news

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/07/21/white-baby-born-black-parents-genetic-test/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474388,00.html



CBS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVvmT2bioo

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20011175-10391704.html


ABC

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/twins-white-black-born-biracial-parents-stirs-issues/story?id=12984334

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1813509



the examples are quite endless

Your examples except for the ohio couple don't satisfy the argument since they took place in other countries. We've maintained since the beginning of this relationship that this was about an American pov. Any your examples are people who are not just white in skin tone but in hair texture and eye coloring which make a huge deal. Most multi racial kids have dark eyes and browner skin so why is it so hard to understand why they are considered black in this country where the parameters are white and non white. And non white usually means black

 

[flaminghetero]

Anyone with a brain knows it inaccurate but you're fighting with a zeal that would lead one to believe that you find either being considered black when you have an out shameful or trying to convince a group of people who have already agreed that race doesn't matter personally and is ridiculous practice or that what ever you like is what your considered despite what your parents look like? Either way all moot points because like I said anyone with half brain knows its bullshit.

You need a cat scan..lol

 

[Iykeg]

Thanks, Swirl.



I don't know where you got all that crap. I never said "black" is meaningless. To many people, being black is more than what they look like. Your definition may be different, but that's your prerogative just like another person's defintion of their blackness is their prerogative.




The saddest part is, whether we like it or not, it's the reality of the situation in America & it has to be dealt with because it doesn't seem to be going anywhere any time soon.



Sad but true.

The situation exists because people subscribe to it which you are doing unwittingly.
I mean its on this website that Ive seen people insisting that so and so be called a certain race based on a one drop ideology.

The same way you look at your son and maybe feel he does not look like you totally is the same way a lot of ethnic groups in Africa would look at him and feel he does not look anything like them at all either.


I was illustrating how silly it is for a person to be insisting on a definition that is completely ridiculous

 

[orejon4]

The problem with this issue is that people try to impose American lenses on everything. Many people dont even see it as "race" per say

Its just a physical description of a person

The average Amhara or Tigrinya sitting on the Ethiopian highlands probably does not consider a Yoruba man his "race" in any form of fashion



Americans might find this hard to understand though

I totally understand this having family in the islands and the US. However, the US world view HAS largely been foisted on the world in most respects. I have noticed a growing 'Americanization' in the way people perceive things around the world, a sense of homogenization.

 

[Iykeg]

Now that's just horseshit. Especially in third world countries where being considered black or white is the difference between a life riddled with hardship and one of ease. The way you speak(it may not be your intention) comes across as a desperation to be distanced from being considered "black" since it holds such a negative perception world wide. Again where you from exactly?

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?

 

[The Dark King]

The situation exists because people subscribe to it which you are doing unwittingly.
I mean its on this website that Ive seen people insisting that so and so be called a certain race based on a one drop ideology.

The same way you look at your son and maybe feel he does not look like you totally is the same way a lot of ethnic groups in Africa would look at him and feel he does not look anything like them at all either.


I was illustrating how silly it is for a person to be insisting on a definition that is completely ridiculous

No one insists on it being true but that it's practiced. Btw Africans as a whole don't get to tell Americans what we should consider black. You guys have more racial issues amongst people who look similar to you than we do. Stop throwing stones fam.
And as far as Tam's kid is concerned I'm sure he looks closer to "black" than "white" and here in the US thats the litmus test my friend.

 

[Iykeg]

I totally understand this having family in the islands and the US. However, the US world view HAS largely been foisted on the world in most respects. I have noticed a growing 'Americanization' in the way people perceive things around the world, a sense of homogenization.

There is some truth to that especially when it comes it comes to racializing the world. The American lenses especially when it comes to "race" is very bizzare


Many black Americans for example dont realize that if a black and white American travelled to say Somalia, both would be seen as foreigners equally. None would be treated as somebody of the same "race"



What people percieve as "race" here in America is very different in other parts of the world

Somebody in Somalia would definately not percieve an Ashanti man from Ghana as his "race"


but I dont know how to explain that to Americans

 

[The Dark King]

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?

I'll say this in all caps so you can follow since you're acting slow.

YOU COME ACROSS AS A MAN DESPERATELY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE STATUS QUO BECAUSE YOU THINK ITS UNFAIR TO BE CONSIDERED BLACK(EWWW ICKY I KNOW) WHEN YOU CAN ESCAPE RACIAL OPPRESSION BY CLAIMING WHITE.
Whether you intend to or not is neither here nor there this is how you are coming across.

 

[Iykeg]

No one insists on it being true but that it's practiced. Btw Africans as a whole don't get to tell Americans what we should consider black. You guys have more racial issues amongst people who look similar to you than we do. Stop throwing stones fam.
And as far as Tam's kid is concerned I'm sure he looks closer to "black" than "white" and here in the US thats the litmus test my friend.

like I said, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

All you do is project the only lenses you have in life of issues that are very different from what is on hand


You probably have absolutely no idea how societies have historically functioned in African societies either

 

[Tamstrong]

I agree that it's bull. However, that's the law in this country and I think people are just acknowledging its existence, not saying we approve of it.

Exactly.

You're definitely not from the US with this statement. Have you heard of the term passing?
Many "african americans" who could pass for white in the early to mid 20th century would move away to places where no one knew them or their family for fear of being classified black even if they looked white. Especially in the south. You could be as white as Liv Tyler but let them find out your grand daddy is black then you're damaged goods my friend.

My family feared this very thing for my son. They were really hoping that he'd be born able to pass, so no one would know the truth when I moved back home. Of course he couldn't pass & the situation got ugly.

Well, at least we can agree that the one-drop rule is BS.:smt038

Yep.

I hear you. I wouldn't consider Vanessa and Smokey white, because when I think white I think Nordic. My ex didn't consider herself 'white' per se, because she thought of herself as a hybrid of Iberian/Arab etc, but she was thought of as white by most white Americans on sight until they heard where she was from. But a lot of people get tripped up trying to classify people for their own comfort level.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

It's so different from the US, where whites and blacks are both trained to look at facial features, hair texture, and more, because of the acute sensitivity on matters of race. That's why I think lots of people are disagreeing with you. Over here, people look at the fullness of Mariah's lips, her wavy (straightened hair), butt/hips, everything and can tell she has some black ancestry. It's like the flip side of the African example you noted where people see the whiteness of a biracial child stand out. Over here people are used to others opting out of the black race if they can, and so we pay close attention to every characteristic, and we see the black features standing out, even if they're hard to detect to someone from outside.

Well said, Orejon.

 

[The Dark King]

There is some truth to that especially when it comes it comes to racializing the world. The American lenses especially when it comes to "race" is very bizzare


Many black Americans for example dont realize that if a black and white American travelled to say Somalia, both would be seen as foreigners equally. None would be treated as somebody of the same "race"



What people percieve as "race" here in America is very different in other parts of the world

Somebody in Somalia would definately not percieve an Ashanti man from Ghana as his "race"



but I dont know how to explain that to Americans

What you're talking about is nationalism not racial identity. I'm a black man of Jamaican heritage but I can definitely tell the difference between a white person from Boston from one from Paris. So bad example

 

[Iykeg]

I'll say this in all caps so you can follow since you're acting slow.

YOU COME ACROSS AS A MAN DESPERATELY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE STATUS QUO BECAUSE YOU THINK ITS UNFAIR TO BE CONSIDERED BLACK(EWWW ICKY I KNOW) WHEN YOU CAN ESCAPE RACIAL OPPRESSION BY CLAIMING WHITE.
Whether you intend to or not is neither here nor there this is how you are coming across.

At this rate, you might need to check into mental rehab soon.


There is a lot to the world that you have not experienced. The fact that you keep blabbing about "escaping a racial identity" only solidifies that point


Why would anybody want to escape a "racial identity"? What status qou are you talking about?


You are completely clueless on a lot of issues which is why the first thing you jump on is "you are running away from a racial identity"


its the same mental abyss that prompted me to comment on this thread in the first place


caging yourself and your mindset in meaningless things

 

[Iykeg]

What you're talking about is nationalism not racial identity. I'm a black man of Jamaican heritage but I can definitely tell the difference between a white person from Boston from one from Paris. So bad example

You cannot even grasp the concept of what I am telling you can you

It has nothing to do with Nationalism


It has EVERYTHING to do with them percieving you as not having any thing in common with them similar to the way they would percieve a white man

But of course, you probably dont have any concept of what I am talking about

 

[pettyofficerj]

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