feminism vs. meninism

[orejon4]

Race is the most important determinant of life chances in this country, but women are oppressed and treated as subordinate to men in every single human society I can think of. The cultural niceties of chivalry are double standards but they are no substitute for equality and empowerment. In fact, in many cultures, "chivalry" toward women developed as some sort of noblesse oblige toward those that were "the weaker sex".

 

[goodlove]

If u want to see how women are treated look at how the media and the country treated the us soccer team.

Not as much fan fair as the men but they accomplished more

Race is the most important determinant of life chances in this country, but women are oppressed and treated as subordinate to men in every single human society I can think of. The cultural niceties of chivalry are double standards but they are no substitute for equality and empowerment. In fact, in many cultures, "chivalry" toward women developed as some sort of noblesse oblige toward those that were "the weaker sex".

 

[The Dark King]

If u want to see how women are treated look at how the media and the country treated the us soccer team.

Not as much fan fair as the men but they accomplished more

Not to mention they got paid like shit totally fucked up. Pay those women what they are owed.

 

[goodlove]

Not to mention they got paid like shit totally fucked up. Pay those women what they are owed.

I heard but it was in passing. Do u know the amounts?

 

[Thump]

Not to mention they got paid like shit totally fucked up. Pay those women what they are owed.

The women got paid less because on an international scale, womens soccer earns less revenue than men's soccer.

For comparison, the 2011 women's world cup earned FIFA $73 million in revenue. The 2010 mens world cup earned $3.7 billion.

 

[orejon4]

[YOUTUBE]9DxsY2391jM[/YOUTUBE]


so what is the difference

"Meninism"? You mean "Society"? Bwahahahaha!

If u want to see how women are treated look at how the media and the country treated the us soccer team.

Not as much fan fair as the men but they accomplished more

No doubt. And got paid like 25-30% of what the losing men's team got. A damned shame.

The women got paid less because on an international scale, womens soccer earns less revenue than men's soccer.

For comparison, the 2011 women's world cup earned FIFA $73 million in revenue. The 2010 mens world cup earned $3.7 billion.

It's not solely based on that. Sepp Blatter is notorious for (among other things) his sexist attitude toward women's sport and his unwillingness to spend the funds to develop the woman's game to the same extent as the men's game. He spends more to push the men's game in some place like Bhutan than the women's game in an industrialized nation, so it's not totally about economics. When asked about improving women's football viewership he suggested shorter shorts.

 

[Thump]

It's not solely based on that. Sepp Blatter is notorious for (among other things) his sexist attitude toward women's sport and his unwillingness to spend the funds to develop the woman's game to the same extent as the men's game. He spends more to push the men's game in some place like Bhutan than the women's game in an industrialized nation, so it's not totally about economics. When asked about improving women's football viewership he suggested shorter shorts.

Oh, i'm sure sexism is a factor in the slow growth of the women's game. But on this issue, it really is a revenue thing.

 

[andreboba]

Race is the most important determinant of life chances in this country, but women are oppressed and treated as subordinate to men in every single human society I can think of. The cultural niceties of chivalry are double standards but they are no substitute for equality and empowerment. In fact, in many cultures, "chivalry" toward women developed as some sort of noblesse oblige toward those that were "the weaker sex".

Not to digress but I don't believe this to be true.
Race is a barrier, but not an insurmountable one.

Too many Black folk in this country excel in spite of race in all facets of society.
At some point in most professional endeavors talent trumps all. Even gender and race.

I understand your point but maybe it could have been worded differently.:smt109

You start life with a different set of challenges and obstacles to overcome based on race and gender.

 

[orejon4]

Not to digress but I don't believe this to be true.
Race is a barrier, but not an insurmountable one.

Too many Black folk in this country excel in spite of race in all facets of society.
At some point in most professional endeavors talent trumps all. Even gender and race.

I understand your point but maybe it could have been worded differently.:smt109

You start life with a different set of challenges and obstacles to overcome based on race and gender.

You're right. I don't think it's insurmountable, just the largest factor impacting other indicators. I guess what I was trying to say was that of the potential detracting factors of oppression (as if they are all competing, lol), race is the most salient one in US society. I was trying to acknowledge its primary importance, while trying to say it wasn't the sole one. Sorry for the fuzzy logic.

 

[meowkittenmeow]

Meninism was a parody of current mainstream feminism. It was ultimately just stupid and silly. In regards to why some BM may not be interested in hearing about feminism, well, there is a reason for that. I believe that the issue is with the word “Feminism” and all that is involved with it. Feminism often means something very different to white women as oppose to what it may mean to black people. I believe most would be willing to hear whatever issues you are going through, but throwing the “F” word in there can be problematic. Why? Because feminism has a history of being problematic, racist, and white supremacist.

Let’s start with the Suffragettes. Current feminists still praise them are feminist pioneers. They often leave out the fact that the Suffragettes were abolitionist, yet also racist, white supremacist, anti-black, and very anti-black male. They pushed for the woman vote due to black men being given the vote first. They called us savages and felt that they were superior to the black male, and therefore should have been given the vote first.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/13/137681070/for-stanton-all-women-were-not-created-equal

http://the-toast.net/2014/04/21/suffragettes-sucked-white-supremacy-womens-rights/

Or we could also mention that Feminism likes to ignore the fact that Black Men were raped by both white men and white women during slavery. And therefore, focus on the atrocities that white males committed while giving the impression that they were innocent bystanders.

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_the_history_of_sexuality/summary/v020/20.3.foster.html

Not to mention that some white women were able to perform racism/misandry-filled acts of false allegations that, in turn, caused the lynching and genital mutilation of thousands of black men.

http://gildedage.lib.niu.edu/redirect

Not to mention that many feminists formed women-only groups within the Klu Klux Klan to further feminism.

https://studyingthehumanities.files...en-in-the-1920s-kkk-movement-blee-article.pdf

Even today, feminists will still try to police a black woman’s body even if she claims to be feminist in bright flashing lights.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beyonce-anti-feminist_n_5295891.html

Yet will praise a white woman for doing something similar.

http://time.com/3850794/miley-cyrus-feminism-gay-rights-happy-hippie/

Then factor in that feminism claims that black males have some sort of male privilege, when in fact, the only privilege blacks seems to receive (regardless of gender) is only due to money, fame, and social status. Therefore, it isn’t privilege because institutionalized privilege isn’t conditional. Also, I would like to mention that feminism often ignores the sexism that black men face and have faced since we got off the boat. Hell, it started before that when the Europeans ventured to colonialize various African Nations. Not to mention that there are currently many self-proclaimed “misandrists” who will talk about another gunned down black man, but will simultaneously proclaim that misandry doesn’t exist. Even though it is obvious that 96% of black people killed by police or vigilantes are black men which means it is a product of both racism and misandry.

The list goes on and on, but I think the point I am trying to make is that you can talk about your problems as a woman and I doubt many people will be bothered. But, throwing the “F” word (feminism) can be problematic based on its previous and current state. I am not sure how you worded your previous attempts at discussing the issues you face as a woman, but if you discuss those issues in a way that implies, “I am a woman and endure sexism, you are a black man and endure racism”, it can come off very negatively. It is a common issue with feminism as well. Because talking to a black man or woman as if they only face racism and not racism and sexism is unwarranted and a form of erasure. Sorry for making this long. But, I hope it will help you to understand the reactions of the few.

 

[FG]

Meninism was a parody of current mainstream feminism. It was ultimately just stupid and silly. In regards to why some BM may not be interested in hearing about feminism, well, there is a reason for that. I believe that the issue is with the word “Feminism” and all that is involved with it. Feminism often means something very different to white women as oppose to what it may mean to black people. I believe most would be willing to hear whatever issues you are going through, but throwing the “F” word in there can be problematic. Why? Because feminism has a history of being problematic, racist, and white supremacist.

Let’s start with the Suffragettes. Current feminists still praise them are feminist pioneers. They often leave out the fact that the Suffragettes were abolitionist, yet also racist, white supremacist, anti-black, and very anti-black male. They pushed for the woman vote due to black men being given the vote first. They called us savages and felt that they were superior to the black male, and therefore should have been given the vote first.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/13/137681070/for-stanton-all-women-were-not-created-equal

http://the-toast.net/2014/04/21/suffragettes-sucked-white-supremacy-womens-rights/

Or we could also mention that Feminism likes to ignore the fact that Black Men were raped by both white men and white women during slavery. And therefore, focus on the atrocities that white males committed while giving the impression that they were innocent bystanders.

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_the_history_of_sexuality/summary/v020/20.3.foster.html

Not to mention that some white women were able to perform racism/misandry-filled acts of false allegations that, in turn, caused the lynching and genital mutilation of thousands of black men.

http://gildedage.lib.niu.edu/redirect

Not to mention that many feminists formed women-only groups within the Klu Klux Klan to further feminism.

https://studyingthehumanities.files...en-in-the-1920s-kkk-movement-blee-article.pdf

Even today, feminists will still try to police a black woman’s body even if she claims to be feminist in bright flashing lights.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beyonce-anti-feminist_n_5295891.html

Yet will praise a white woman for doing something similar.

http://time.com/3850794/miley-cyrus-feminism-gay-rights-happy-hippie/

Then factor in that feminism claims that black males have some sort of male privilege, when in fact, the only privilege blacks seems to receive (regardless of gender) is only due to money, fame, and social status. Therefore, it isn’t privilege because institutionalized privilege isn’t conditional. Also, I would like to mention that feminism often ignores the sexism that black men face and have faced since we got off the boat. Hell, it started before that when the Europeans ventured to colonialize various African Nations. Not to mention that there are currently many self-proclaimed “misandrists” who will talk about another gunned down black man, but will simultaneously proclaim that misandry doesn’t exist. Even though it is obvious that 96% of black people killed by police or vigilantes are black men which means it is a product of both racism and misandry.

The list goes on and on, but I think the point I am trying to make is that you can talk about your problems as a woman and I doubt many people will be bothered. But, throwing the “F” word (feminism) can be problematic based on its previous and current state. I am not sure how you worded your previous attempts at discussing the issues you face as a woman, but if you discuss those issues in a way that implies, “I am a woman and endure sexism, you are a black man and endure racism”, it can come off very negatively. It is a common issue with feminism as well. Because talking to a black man or woman as if they only face racism and not racism and sexism is unwarranted and a form of erasure. Sorry for making this long. But, I hope it will help you to understand the reactions of the few.

Scratching head.
Did you quote my posty mistake? Your post has nothing to do with mine at all. I wasn't talking about feminism, or meninism or anything other that what I posted. It only had to do with the environment on this board and nothing else. It's very clear if you read it.

Besides, did you bother to see how old that post is?

 

[meowkittenmeow]

Scratching head.
Did you quote my posty mistake? Your post has nothing to do with mine at all. I wasn't talking about feminism, or meninism or anything other that what I posted. It only had to do with the environment on this board and nothing else. It's very clear if you read it.

Besides, did you bother to see how old that post is?

I quoted you because you seemed bothered that some black men on the forum weren't interested in listening to feminist issues. I went on to explain and give many reasons why that might be. I didn't mean it as a form of disrespect, but a means of elaborating the issues that people might have in regards to discussing the concerns of ww and the issues they face in society when feminism is the term used.

I clicked on the post and read through it and, no, I didn't look at the date. It was just one of the more recent trending topics on here. So, I noticed your post and replied.

I was replying to this

"But you often seen to have trouble with accepting that women do also have struggles and that somehow because being a black male comes with more struggle, that women have nothing to complain about. They arent mutually exclusive. Also, historically, in this country women were absolutely considered around 3/5th of a person. There is plenty of that in the us history."

And I was trying to explain that that may not be the case. Then went on to explain the possible issues some BM might have.

"The thing is, women on here would wish for more understanding by some certain of the males on here that categorically don't want to hear it.
That does not in any way, shape or form, mean that we think that gender triumphs race and that we don't understand that being a bm certainly comes with infinitely more struggle than being a ww.
I think every single ww here is perfectly clear on white privilege. I simply think that some women get really tired at times when discussing female struggles that it is constantly trivialized by a few men on here or worse."

And this part as well. So, I was trying to provide some understanding on why some might have issues when the word feminism is involved or if those conversations involved ignoring the sexism that BM face. That is all.

 

[goodlove]

What u stated is very true....we should be very supportive.

I dont understand the need to be one sided

I don't think anyone is trying to say that gender triumphs race, here or anywhere.
But you often seen to have trouble with accepting that women do also have struggles and that somehow because being a black male comes with more struggle, that women have nothing to complain about. They arent mutually exclusive. Also, historically, in this country women were absolutely considered around 3/5th of a person. There is plenty of that in the us history.

The thing is, women on here would wish for more understanding by some certain of the males on here that categorically don't want to hear it.
That does not in any way, shape or form, mean that we think that gender triumphs race and that we don't understand that being a bm certainly comes with infinitely more struggle than being a ww.
I think every single ww here is perfectly clear on white privilege. I simply think that some women get really tired at times when discussing female struggles that it is constantly trivialized by a few men on here or worse.

We really should be more supporting of eachother, after all, we do date 'eachother'. I don't need no kumbaya, its not realistic but shit has turned way in the left field at times..I scratch my head going:how are some on here dating ww/bm

 

[Bliss]

.. So, I was trying to provide some understanding on why some might have issues when the word feminism is involved or if those conversations involved ignoring the sexism that BM face. That is all.

So you actually believe all that you posted is what runs through modern day black men who don't supprt feminism? Please, it ain't that deep...most just don't want to be under a matriarchy or share power.

 

[FG]

I quoted you because you seemed bothered that some black men on the forum weren't interested in listening to feminist issues. I went on to explain and give many reasons why that might be. I didn't mean it as a form of disrespect, but a means of elaborating the issues that people might have in regards to discussing the concerns of ww and the issues they face in society when feminism is the term used.

I clicked on the post and read through it and, no, I didn't look at the date. It was just one of the more recent trending topics on here. So, I noticed your post and replied.

I was replying to this

"But you often seen to have trouble with accepting that women do also have struggles and that somehow because being a black male comes with more struggle, that women have nothing to complain about. They arent mutually exclusive. Also, historically, in this country women were absolutely considered around 3/5th of a person. There is plenty of that in the us history."

And I was trying to explain that that may not be the case. Then went on to explain the possible issues some BM might have.

"The thing is, women on here would wish for more understanding by some certain of the males on here that categorically don't want to hear it.
That does not in any way, shape or form, mean that we think that gender triumphs race and that we don't understand that being a bm certainly comes with infinitely more struggle than being a ww.
I think every single ww here is perfectly clear on white privilege. I simply think that some women get really tired at times when discussing female struggles that it is constantly trivialized by a few men on here or worse."

And this part as well. So, I was trying to provide some understanding on why some might have issues when the word feminism is involved or if those conversations involved ignoring the sexism that BM face. That is all.

Nope. No cigar. I wasn't talking about feminism AT ALL! I was talking about certain individuals who never ever have a sympathy for women struggles, has nothing to do with feminism. It is very clear if you stop reading stuff into my post that is simply not there. You also seem to read emotions that are simply not there. Stop adlibbing my post, I don't want to be dragged into a conversation I wasn't a part of to begin with, have that conversation with someone that actually discussed feminism and manism.
It would be much better if you responded to a post that was actually relevant to you post, and also not 400 years old.
This was a discussion within this thread about how we treat each other on here, nothing more, nothing less... And certainly has nothing to do about feminism. That is an assumption you made all on your own.

 

[meowkittenmeow]

So you actually believe all that you posted is what runs through modern day black men who don't supprt feminism? Please, it ain't that deep...most just don't want to be under a matriarchy or share power.

I honestly don't believe you are in any position to know what the majority of black men think.

 

[meowkittenmeow]

Nope. No cigar. I wasn't talking about feminism AT ALL! I was talking about certain individuals who never ever have a sympathy for women struggles, has nothing to do with feminism. It is very clear if you stop reading stuff into my post that is simply not there. You also seem to read emotions that are simply not there. Stop adlibbing my post, I don't want to be dragged into a conversation I wasn't a part of to begin with, have that conversation with someone that actually discussed feminism and manism.
It would be much better if you responded to a post that was actually relevant to you post, and also not 400 years old.
This was a discussion within this thread about how we treat each other on here, nothing more, nothing less... And certainly has nothing to do about feminism. That is an assumption you made all on your own.

An assumption based in complaints about black men not wanting to listen to certain problems and I explained why that may be a factor. And the assumption wasn't far stretched considering that you decided to post it in a feminist/meninism post.

I will add that you can also ignore everything I said if you feel that it doesn't apply to you.

 

[Bliss]

I honestly don't believe you are in any position to know what the majority of black men think.

Nor are you on what feminists or white women think.

 

[The Dark King]

Nor are you on what feminists or white women think.

You're half right, knowing what white women as a whole think is impossible but feminism is a widely held belief system like Christianity. I may not know exactly what all Christians think but I know they all believe Jesus is their Lord and savior.

 

[meowkittenmeow]

Nor are you on what feminists or white women think.

I never claimed to be an authority on what white women think, I was expressing the historical anti-blackness, white supremacy, and racism/sexism within an ideology/movement. A movement/ideology isn't a race even if it is run or was previously run by a specific race. It is a chosen thought process and can at times be very dogmatic. That is all.