pettyofficerj
New Member
lipstick said:Soulthinker said:
this is from a man that can't get a date anywhere in the us or europe...leave ronja alone or i will have to ninja kick your butt to another continent
can't we all just get along..
A night out - some observations
- Thread starter FEHG
- Start date
can't we all just get along..
Soulthinker
Well-Known Member
Well, D when it gets heated the thread goes longer. :lol:
FEHG said:
You say Zimbabweans are new to the country, that it takes effort to communicate with them, and that there's a cultural barrier that's not easy to deal with. It follows that most local girls would not make the effort to go out with them unless they had to, or if the exotic vibes blew them away. So, according to your and your friends' tastes, the girls who chose to do that are 'ugly'. You haven't told us what the guys look like, but anyway... Let's say these girls are not stunning, but *maybe* they feel better hanging out with this community, maybe they're better accepted by them than by locals? You, a local girl, was shocked straight away when you saw them, and scandalised by the fact that they may be accepted... Then you were surprised that the white 'ugly' girls didn't talk to you?
Now, why do the guys go for them (assuming they 'can get better' - hate that expression!)? Well, maybe they're readily available to each other because desperate on both sides. You said the relationships between them are not serious, and they keep switching lovers around. Seems like a casual sex game to me, nothing unusual about that.
Obviously there *is* a cultural thing going on, the negative associations you and 'guys you know from here' have about these girls are not as strong for Zimbabweans. And since you mentioned socioeconomic background and '"low" demographic', you make me suspect that it's not just looks, but something about their class that makes them 'low' for you. Zimbabweans may be happy to not hold a lot of prejudice about a group of local people they don't understand well, and just have as much fun as they can with them. Could it also be that girls from your background are more likely to be racist?
In the end of the day, what's your problem? You seem to want everyone to throw these girls in the trash.
Hey Rosa,
Good points.
I'll try to reply to your post systematically...
It does take a little effort to communicate with the zimbo's but I think that's mostly the same with any group of international people living in a very different culture. I would be quiet and shy if I moved to Zim...
Just to clarify - I'm solo here...I don't go out with my friends...if we do, we do it as a group and go out to dinner and cocktails somewhere - we don't go clubbing, etc...The other people I referenced making comments were my brother (who was out, and joined up with me...and my Zimbo BF).
As I have previously mentioned, I'm not very good at sugar coating things...The girls are what American's might call "wiggas" or "trailer-park" or "groupies"...(FWIW, I don't think people are necessarily ugly - I think the way people dress and attire themselves gives a vibe of ugliness....I honestly believe almost anyone can be beautiful if they choose to be...anyway, I digress).
The guys are a mixed bag. Zimbo's seem mostly to be shorter and they're not DARK like some Africans, but they're not light like some southern africans either. There are good and average and not so good...
Yes, I see what you're saying...I was hoping that somebody would question me in a logical way. I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I guess what I was trying to ask/question - but that I didn't do very well - is why there are ONLY those type of girls. The Zim boys are, from what I can understand, a wide variety of backgrounds. Some are very wealthy, some families have struggled, etc. The girls are solo-demographic (more or less)....Why this demographic and not another?
I guess, if you compared the socio-economic standing of most of the guys here (definable - because it is EXPENSIVE to be an international student - especially by Zim standards....so the people here are generally wealthy by default - no scholarships!)...they would be at least upper-middle class in Zim. The girls, I would generally estimate, are low to lower-middle class....
To be completely self-centred here (and I'll use myself as the example), if I went to Zimbabwe, the USA, England...anywhere...I would most probably end up mixing with upper-middle class people. Because - that's where my head-space is that. That's the way I was brought up...So, why is this different?
Essentially, I wouldn't normally meet or associate with the girls because they're not in my circles. Not that I need to say it - but I am never rude to anyone, and treat everyone I speak to at face value...I dick head is a dick head - I don't care where you're from or who you are...
But to ask my question, and make my point, I had to generalise and I had to make sweeping assumptions. It was a theme that had been brought up on here, and in other places, previously..so I thought it deserved some merit.
Anyway, thanks again for your post - you challenge me, which is what I was after!...
Good points.
I'll try to reply to your post systematically...
It does take a little effort to communicate with the zimbo's but I think that's mostly the same with any group of international people living in a very different culture. I would be quiet and shy if I moved to Zim...
Just to clarify - I'm solo here...I don't go out with my friends...if we do, we do it as a group and go out to dinner and cocktails somewhere - we don't go clubbing, etc...The other people I referenced making comments were my brother (who was out, and joined up with me...and my Zimbo BF).
As I have previously mentioned, I'm not very good at sugar coating things...The girls are what American's might call "wiggas" or "trailer-park" or "groupies"...(FWIW, I don't think people are necessarily ugly - I think the way people dress and attire themselves gives a vibe of ugliness....I honestly believe almost anyone can be beautiful if they choose to be...anyway, I digress).
The guys are a mixed bag. Zimbo's seem mostly to be shorter and they're not DARK like some Africans, but they're not light like some southern africans either. There are good and average and not so good...
Yes, I see what you're saying...I was hoping that somebody would question me in a logical way. I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I guess what I was trying to ask/question - but that I didn't do very well - is why there are ONLY those type of girls. The Zim boys are, from what I can understand, a wide variety of backgrounds. Some are very wealthy, some families have struggled, etc. The girls are solo-demographic (more or less)....Why this demographic and not another?
I guess, if you compared the socio-economic standing of most of the guys here (definable - because it is EXPENSIVE to be an international student - especially by Zim standards....so the people here are generally wealthy by default - no scholarships!)...they would be at least upper-middle class in Zim. The girls, I would generally estimate, are low to lower-middle class....
To be completely self-centred here (and I'll use myself as the example), if I went to Zimbabwe, the USA, England...anywhere...I would most probably end up mixing with upper-middle class people. Because - that's where my head-space is that. That's the way I was brought up...So, why is this different?
Essentially, I wouldn't normally meet or associate with the girls because they're not in my circles. Not that I need to say it - but I am never rude to anyone, and treat everyone I speak to at face value...I dick head is a dick head - I don't care where you're from or who you are...
But to ask my question, and make my point, I had to generalise and I had to make sweeping assumptions. It was a theme that had been brought up on here, and in other places, previously..so I thought it deserved some merit.
Anyway, thanks again for your post - you challenge me, which is what I was after!...
Ronja
New Member
FEHG said:
Out of curiosity... What makes you think so?
My 2 cents:
In most of Africa, OK let's not sugar coat it, in ALL of Africa, generally people are less interested in sending their girls to school than their boys. Especially after secondary school there'll be a huge drop in number of female students (but there's even a drop after elementary school, and already in elementary school boys will usually outnumber girls). So for a girl to go to uni, her parents are likely to be quite well educated, non-discriminating, and fairly liberal. And since people are more likely to prioritize to educate their sons, especially if they have to choose, they probably have quite rich parents as well.
So my guess would actually be quite the opposite of yours, the girls should probably have richer parents than the boys.
woah - I was lost there for a minute.
I was talking about the white chicks who hang around the zim people here...they are generally (in my observation) low to low-middle class...
Not the Zim girls.
The point I was trying to make (not very well) is that the white chicks seem to be of a lower-class than the zim people here. I don't see that being in another country would change that. This is because, if I went to another country - I would seek similar people, of a similar background...
And yes - all the zim people here are from fairly wealthy families...Girls and guys...they're all certainly wealthier than me (relatively)!!!
I don't think that the wealthier, upper-middle - upper-class zim families discriminate...but that's an education thing, I guess.
Sorry, I'm not very good at explaining myself!
The very sad thing is that Zim, which had relatively high education rates for Africa, is slowly dropping, because Mugabe isn't investing in Education and it's too $$ now for people. So sad. I really hope and pray the elections in March bring some good news for those suffering people! Somehow - I don't think that will happen...
Ahh - it's frustrating! But, what can you do!?!
I was talking about the white chicks who hang around the zim people here...they are generally (in my observation) low to low-middle class...
Not the Zim girls.
The point I was trying to make (not very well) is that the white chicks seem to be of a lower-class than the zim people here. I don't see that being in another country would change that. This is because, if I went to another country - I would seek similar people, of a similar background...
And yes - all the zim people here are from fairly wealthy families...Girls and guys...they're all certainly wealthier than me (relatively)!!!
I don't think that the wealthier, upper-middle - upper-class zim families discriminate...but that's an education thing, I guess.
Sorry, I'm not very good at explaining myself!
The very sad thing is that Zim, which had relatively high education rates for Africa, is slowly dropping, because Mugabe isn't investing in Education and it's too $$ now for people. So sad. I really hope and pray the elections in March bring some good news for those suffering people! Somehow - I don't think that will happen...
Ahh - it's frustrating! But, what can you do!?!
Ronja
New Member
FEHG said:woah - I was lost there for a minute.
I was talking about the white chicks who hang around the zim people here...they are generally (in my observation) low to low-middle class...
Not the Zim girls.
The point I was trying to make (not very well) is that the white chicks seem to be of a lower-class than the zim people here. I don't see that being in another country would change that. This is because, if I went to another country - I would seek similar people, of a similar background...
And yes - all the zim people here are from fairly wealthy families...Girls and guys...they're all certainly wealthier than me (relatively)!!!
I don't think that the wealthier, upper-middle - upper-class zim families discriminate...but that's an education thing, I guess.
Sorry, I'm not very good at explaining myself!
The very sad thing is that Zim, which had relatively high education rates for Africa, is slowly dropping, because Mugabe isn't investing in Education and it's too $$ now for people. So sad. I really hope and pray the elections in March bring some good news for those suffering people! Somehow - I don't think that will happen...
Ahh - it's frustrating! But, what can you do!?!
LOl.
Thank you. Don't know why I didn't immediately understand it's the Australian girls you were talking about... Your post makes A LOT more sense to me now
Well, I don't have any opinion of the girls you're talking about. Haven't met any of them
Everything in Zimbabwe is more or less going to hell because of Mugabe. People are fleeing the country like crazy. It used to be one of the better African countries in every way, so it's a huge shame...
I am a little confused by this discussion. Why are these African students dating ww of a lower class? As someone pointed our earlier, these guys are genarally international short stay students who will eventually return to their country. As a student, I dated African students. Most of them changed girlfriends fairly frequently and they were obviously enjoying their "education". As they were with fellow students, I would say that they were with women of a similar socio economic class , but probably a bit richer than us. They thus had no shortage of money - or female company.And some female students were overweight - as many young people now are. So?
karmacoma.
Well-Known Member
sarah23 said:
Ronja's just arguing to be arguing at this point.
pettyofficerj
New Member
lol..
i'm surprised this "intellectual" thread, is still going as strong as it is..
i'm surprised this "intellectual" thread, is still going as strong as it is..
pettyofficerj
New Member
Ronja said:
uh oh...you've just unleashed the dragon
:smt011
Soulthinker
Well-Known Member
I believe you did.
dossou
Member
Kayy
This is a special post to Sarah23 :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
My dearest Sarah .it's just a matter of time and space :wink: :wink: :wink: .Time and Space .
:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: Be at the right time at the rvright moment.It'll clear the sight and makes the veil of misunderstanding disappear.
think we should make our possible to be at the right time At the right place . :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: I'm african living on the west african cost.
I had some friend ww .It was nice .all depends on us; how to overcome obstacles of time and space...
Thanks Sarah 23 :arrow: :arrow: :wink:
This is a special post to Sarah23 :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
My dearest Sarah .it's just a matter of time and space :wink: :wink: :wink: .Time and Space
.:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: Be at the right time at the rvright moment.It'll clear the sight and makes the veil of misunderstanding disappear.
think we should make our possible to be at the right time At the right place . :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: I'm african living on the west african cost.
I had some friend ww
.It was nice .all depends on us; how to overcome obstacles of time and space...Thanks Sarah 23 :arrow: :arrow: :wink:
malikom said:
Quite frankly, malikom, I disagree with your assertion that black men could attract better quality white women if they just stepped up their "game". Perhaps they could do a bit better, but not much.
This will be true as long as humans group together by race. Imagine two circles side-by-side slightly overlapping at one edge. If one circle is white people, and one black people, the overlap is where interracial dating is happening. The people most willing to step outside their circle are the ones nearest the edge--in other words the most marginalized in their group (the so-called "bottom of the barrel"). The ones nearest the center of the circle are the ones who are most comfortable within in their group. The barbie dolls you posted all fall near the center of the circle. Now, nobody is saying none of the barbie dolls will go outside their circle, but it's that they have the least incentive to and hence in reality become the least likely to.
Think back to chemistry class where electrons closest to the center of the atom were the hardest to dislodge, and the ones nearest the edge the easiest.
At the end of the day, the golden rule to remember is that women of all races show strong preference for men of their own race. Combine that with poor incentive and you have the reason why black men overwhelmingly can't get barbie doll-type white women. You can't change women's hard-wired preferences (the constant), but what can change is the incentive (the variable). Simply put, either the white woman must be on the down-low in one way or another (trashy, overweight, ugly, old etc.) , or the black man has to stand tall out and above somehow (wealth, celebrity etc.).
If both people are average chances are it ain't happening (refer to the hard-wiring reason above ^).
And of course, no woman is consciously aware of where she is in the circle, nor did she decide to put herself there. Everybody lives in their own reality with their own position as center of the circle, not looking down from above at the spectrum.
Another big mistake you made was comparing black men to white men, and how the latter don't take BOTB women of any race. That is due to white men's unique status at the top of the social ladder in Western society. A white man in China would likely have to settle for a BOTB Asian woman; in Africa for a BOTB black woman. For your comparisons to be valid, black and white men would have to be playing in the same arena.
I could definitely see how black men could see interracial dating in a totally progressive light (ie, none-->BM/BOTB WW-->BM/high-quality WW), but there is a natural stop to the process. If there wasn't everybody would be biracial by now and the concept of race would no longer have any meaning. Conversely, you could say the concept of race has meaning because of that natural stop.
pettyofficerj
New Member
^^^^hit em' up, gangsta
I was going to lay down some bars about his post..
but that thing was just too d@mn long to read
I know I came across good lookin white women, who were young, attractive, and had things going for them..
not necessarily the stereotypical ones, who been with white guys all their lives, but now want a black man because things never worked out, years later
I was going to lay down some bars about his post..
but that thing was just too d@mn long to read
I know I came across good lookin white women, who were young, attractive, and had things going for them..
not necessarily the stereotypical ones, who been with white guys all their lives, but now want a black man because things never worked out, years later
Narus i dont agree with you.There has to be SOME good looking white women out there who are willing to date interracially.Theres no excuse.If you set your standards high and keep it there you will evetually get a white women that meets those standards.I do agree with you on how good looking white women are more sought out,thus a greater chance of them staying within their race,but there will be alot that let their guard down :twisted:
and if what you said was true,then why do all the black girls i see with white boys look good?Ive yet to see a fat or ugly black woman with a white guy.
Brothers need to learn from them.
and if what you said was true,then why do all the black girls i see with white boys look good?Ive yet to see a fat or ugly black woman with a white guy.
Brothers need to learn from them.