Trayvon Martin's Murder

[orejon4]

Was TM somewhere he was not supposed to be? The answer is no. I trying to imagine some dude following me asking me where I am going even if he is saying he is neighborhood watch. GTFO! Anybody can say that. Bottom line is I don't have to tell you shit. End of story.

Bingo. This was not private property, he was walking on a street en route to a location that he had a right to be on as a designee/licensee of the owner (his father's fiancee). And even if it were private property, it was not Zimmerman's property, so he had no right to eject anyone.

LOL. Truth.
I do a LOT of shoulder shrugging when I'm out especially if I'm not in the mood to have a conversation.

There's no way I'm just talking to a stranger at night for some bullshit reason.

Exactly. Zimmerman wasn't in an official car, had no official identification and he had no official duties.

my question is people always ask....why was he there and was he suppose to be there and I reply he was to see his father but lets pretend he was just passing through....did he have to die over that?

We weren't taught that trespassing is an offense punishable by death in class.

 

[The Dark King]

Kind like since its a black teen its a open and shut case for you the night of the shooting......

No the way the police handled it made it alp about race to me. the fact the kid was followed in the first place makes it open and shut for me. Since when do people who kill another person get taken on their word without investigaion? Since when does it take a 40 day fb campaign and media pressure for motherfuckas to their job properly. Come P be fair about this.

 

[Tamstrong]

Precisely. Anyone's heart would go from zero to 60 as soon as your instinct kicked in you are being followed .. and as women we (can) particularly understand that sudden fear. Hopefully the jury will.

Exactly. I hope they do too.

Women that have your background are always a bag of fun. You without a doubt understand what I was getting at. Guys are often rough with their friends growing up so certainly they are that much rougher with those they dislike.


The power of discovery and how it is used always has the potential to have a profound effect on the outcome of any case. I certainly agree with the point you made, running from the facts will only make the facts seem a lot worse than they really are.

Bag of fun huh...lol. Yeah, I understand the meaning behind 'boys will be boys', and there's a lot of truth to it. Sometimes a person has to stand up for themselves, and sometimes fighting to defend yourself is the only option. Hell, I was even in my share of fights in middle and high school dealing with bullies.

Was TM somewhere he was not supposed to be? The answer is no. I trying to imagine some dude following me asking me where I am going even if he is saying he is neighborhood watch. GTFO! Anybody can say that. Bottom line is I don't have to tell you shit. End of story.

LOL. Truth.
I do a LOT of shoulder shrugging when I'm out especially if I'm not in the mood to have a conversation.

There's no way I'm just talking to a stranger at night for some bullshit reason.

Well said, guys. If I'm walking along minding my own business being followed and questioned by some stranger, I'm not going to be receptive to it. I don't care who they are or claim to be, they can leave me the hell alone and mind their own damn business.

 

[archangel]

[YOUTUBE]9BPR6UfpW94[/YOUTUBE]




The way trayvon martin's brother stuck up for his brother made me proud to be an older brother. He put the bar up for big brothers everywhere.

 

[orejon4]

[YOUTUBE]9BPR6UfpW94[/YOUTUBE]

The way trayvon martin's brother stuck up for his brother made me proud to be an older brother. He put the bar up for big brothers everywhere.

Kudos to him for holding up under incredibly difficult circumstances.

 

[The Dark King]

[YOUTUBE]9BPR6UfpW94[/YOUTUBE]




The way trayvon martin's brother stuck up for his brother made me proud to be an older brother. He put the bar up for big brothers everywhere.

That defense attorney is an absolute douche. His line of questioning was only meant to undermine the relationship that kid had with his brother. Do you and your brother have the same friends? Do you interact with each other on social networking sites? Do you live in the same house? What kind of dumb shit is all that? Me and two of my brothers are the same age differences apart and at 17 why would you and your 22 year old brother have the same friends? And that bs about the biological father? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

 

[archangel]

That defense attorney is an absolute douche. His line of questioning was only meant to undermine the relationship that kid had with his brother. Do you and your brother have the same friends? Do you interact with each other on social networking sites? Do you live in the same house? What kind of dumb shit is all that? Me and two of my brothers are the same age differences apart and at 17 why would you and your 22 year old brother have the same friends? And that bs about the biological father? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I think it was more so to gain background information. If anything, it strengthen trayvon's brother's case and made trayvon's dad look like an awesome guy. I can't say that I would have taken the role of father to a kid that isn't mines. It is clear that trayvon's dad helped trayvon's brother get to where he got to. of course, he didn't do it alone but young men crave an older man's assistance into being a man.

 

[orejon4]

That defense attorney is an absolute douche. His line of questioning was only meant to undermine the relationship that kid had with his brother. Do you and your brother have the same friends? Do you interact with each other on social networking sites? Do you live in the same house? What kind of dumb shit is all that? Me and two of my brothers are the same age differences apart and at 17 why would you and your 22 year old brother have the same friends? And that bs about the biological father? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

It's designed to do the same thing that the ad hominem attacks against Rachel Jeantel are designed to do: namely, to imply that the people on Trayvon's side exhibit "black pathologies", to paint them as elements of a criminal underclass. Broken homes, fatherless children, blunt smoking, cursing, etc., all calculated to instill in jurors the idea that these are an inherently aggressive, criminal and untrustworthy people. Never mind the fact that you can have all of these disadvantages and lie and it still has nothing to do with whether that murderer disobeyed official instructions to leave an unarmed teen alone, pursued him, and shot him.

 

[Alinoa]

It's designed to do the same thing that the ad hominem attacks against Rachel Jeantel are designed to do: namely, to imply that the people on Trayvon's side exhibit "black pathologies", to paint them as elements of a criminal underclass. Broken homes, fatherless children, blunt smoking, cursing, etc., all calculated to instill in jurors the idea that these are an inherently aggressive, criminal and untrustworthy people. Never mind the fact that you can have all of these disadvantages and lie and it still has nothing to do with whether that murderer disobeyed official instructions to leave an unarmed teen alone, pursued him, and shot him.

How is you are single again?

You are a fecking genius.

 

[archangel]

It's designed to do the same thing that the ad hominem attacks against Rachel Jeantel are designed to do: namely, to imply that the people on Trayvon's side exhibit "black pathologies", to paint them as elements of a criminal underclass. Broken homes, fatherless children, blunt smoking, cursing, etc., all calculated to instill in jurors the idea that these are an inherently aggressive, criminal and untrustworthy people. Never mind the fact that you can have all of these disadvantages and lie and it still has nothing to do with whether that murderer disobeyed official instructions to leave an unarmed teen alone, pursued him, and shot him.

I don't know. Sometimes brothers are not that close. I felt that he was trying to paint a picture not based on race but on how little he knows his brother. The thing is when your brother lives in the same house as you. You tend to know them very well. I could be wrong. I am not that observant of court cases. I'd have to see his behavior on all the rest of his cases to make a judgement. I agree that it is an attempt to discredit but have an issue going to a racial section.

 

[orejon4]

I don't know. Sometimes brothers are not that close. I felt that he was trying to paint a picture not based on race but on how little he knows his brother. The thing is when your brother lives in the same house as you. You tend to know them very well.

The stuff about the social networking sites was about them not having a real relationship. But the fact that he has been brought to the stand to identify the sound of his brother's screams makes it clear that they have a relationship that is widely accepted. The stuff about the biological father was targeted at their domestic structure (i.e. family and values). In school they regularly tell us that zealous advocacy on behalf of your client includes using any method to discredit your opponent's witnesses. There is supposed to be a decency standard, but it is commonly known to be discarded, and that civility is a huge problem in the profession.

 

[The Dark King]

The stuff about the social networking sites was about them not having a real relationship. But the fact that he has been brought to the stand to identify the sound of his brother's screams makes it clear that they have a relationship that is widely accepted. The stuff about the biological father was targeted at their domestic structure (i.e. family and values). In school they regularly tell us that zealous advocacy on behalf of your client includes using any method to discredit your opponent's witnesses. There is supposed to be a decency standard, but it is commonly known to be discarded, and that civility is a huge problem in the profession.

Exactly. And then the purjor accusation was ridiculous, trying to make dude look like liar. Thankfully the judge saw through that bs.

 

[archangel]

The stuff about the social networking sites was about them not having a real relationship. But the fact that he has been brought to the stand to identify the sound of his brother's screams makes it clear that they have a relationship that is widely accepted. The stuff about the biological father was targeted at their domestic structure (i.e. family and values). In school they regularly tell us that zealous advocacy on behalf of your client includes using any method to discredit your opponent's witnesses. There is supposed to be a decency standard, but it is commonly known to be discarded, and that civility is a huge problem in the profession.

Couldn't he do that to a white family as well? Black people don't hold a monolpy on disfunction.

I'm not stating that it is or isn't racial. I'm just trying to see where it is racial. Most of this stuff seems like it could have been done to a white family. I understand if you are saying well it was done to them because they are black. I just would need a trail of this attonery doing this to other black people.
Either way, It didn't help the defense as the brother showed that the family was very well put together. Mother has a degree. Son is in his senior year of college. Tracy took over fatherhood role. Outstanding in my opinion.


edit: I understand that you don't have a trail of all of this guy's cases. It isn't fair to ask that. I'm not trying to make it unfair. It is that I like to see patterns.

 

[archangel]

Exactly. And then the purjor accusation was ridiculous, trying to make dude look like liar. Thankfully the judge saw through that bs.

My favorite part was when the judge put him in his place about the impeachment. The prosecutor also put him in his place. The only problem that I had was that the jury didn't see him put in his place.

 

[orejon4]

I don't know. Sometimes brothers are not that close. I felt that he was trying to paint a picture not based on race but on how little he knows his brother. The thing is when your brother lives in the same house as you. You tend to know them very well. I could be wrong. I am not that observant of court cases. I'd have to see his behavior on all the rest of his cases to make a judgement. I agree that it is an attempt to discredit but have an issue going to a racial section.

By manipulating race and racial perceptions, I don't mean that he is a card-carrying klansman or that he is going to scream "nigger" at the top of his lungs in the courtroom, lol. But these are subtly calibrated messages to feed to a suburban female jury a perception of Trayvon based on associations, family structure and background that he is an aggressive, "urban", black male. That makes his argument (that Trayvon is an aggressor that poor George needed to defend himself from) appear more plausible.

Couldn't he do that to a white family as well? Black people don't hold a monolpy on disfunction.

I'm not stating that it is or isn't racial. I'm just trying to see where it is racial. Most of this stuff seems like it could have been done to a white family. I understand if you are saying well it was done to them because they are black. I just would need a trail of this attonery doing this to other black people.
Either way, It didn't help the defense as the brother showed that the family was very well put together. Mother has a degree. Son is in his senior year of college. Tracy took over fatherhood role. Outstanding in my opinion.


edit: I understand that you don't have a trail of all of this guy's cases. It isn't fair to ask that. I'm not trying to make it unfair. It is that I like to see patterns.

I'm not saying that the lawyer is or isn't a racist, just that he is using manipulation racial perceptions to defend his client. That's all.

 

[archangel]

By manipulating race and racial perceptions, I don't mean that he is a card-carrying klansman or that he is going to scream "nigger" at the top of his lungs in the courtroom, lol. But these are subtly calibrated messages to feed to a suburban female jury a perception of Trayvon based on associations, family structure and background that he is an aggressive, "urban", black male. That makes his argument (that Trayvon is an aggressor that poor George needed to defend himself from) appear more plausible.

ahhhh got you.


I've always felt that law is black magic based on opinions. This case has only strengthen how much law is influenced by opinions and not facts. It sickens me.

 

[orejon4]

ahhhh got you.

I've always felt that law is black magic based on opinions. This case has only strengthen how much law is influenced by opinions and not facts. It sickens me.

And you're spot on that having a self-sacrificing man who raises another man's child into a college senior debunks all the myths of dysfunction. I think Zimmerman's attorney's strategy backfired.

The use of a jury of your peers - the average representative of a community - is what leaves the system open to such egregious abuse. If you can get these jurors to feel a certain way toward a party, it colors how they hear every fact afterward.

 

[Bliss]

The stuff about the social networking sites was about them not having a real relationship. But the fact that he has been brought to the stand to identify the sound of his brother's screams makes it clear that they have a relationship that is widely accepted. The stuff about the biological father was targeted at their domestic structure (i.e. family and values). In school they regularly tell us that zealous advocacy on behalf of your client includes using any method to discredit your opponent's witnesses. There is supposed to be a decency standard, but it is commonly known to be discarded, and that civility is a huge problem in the profession.

At the bolded, Johnny Cochran was the worst abuser in history of that tactic. He really tried to paint OJ as the victim and every white person a racist out to get poor OJ. You could even blame him for this lawyer's zeal. But there are millions of people who think Johnny's tactics was amazing. Did you like Johnny Cochran and F. Lee Bailey's style?

Are you a criminal lawyer yet or still studying? Would you ever go after your client's witnesses in the manner he has?

(ps: I personally don't blame Lawyers for doing it, I would expect mine to, whether I was the victim or the perp).

 

[orejon4]

At the bolded, Johnny Cochran was the worst abuser in history of that tactic. He really tried to paint OJ as the victim and every white person a racist out to get poor OJ. You could even blame him for this lawyer's zeal. But there are millions of people who think Johnny's tactics was amazing. Did you like Johnny Cochran and F. Lee Bailey's style?

Are you a criminal lawyer yet or still studying? Would you ever go after your client's witnesses in the manner he has?

(ps: I personally don't blame Lawyers for doing it, I would expect mine to, whether I was the victim or the perp).

It's a complex issue. The type of legal system we have (English Common Law) is premised on the idea that vigorous advocacy on both sides ultimately yields the best result (and most just). The Civil Law system (like what you find in France and much of Continental Europe) is more fact and statute driven. In fact, we discussed the tension lawyers face in using every tool at their disposal to advocate on their client's behalf and whether failure to do so amounts to a failure to adequately fight for their client. From this standpoint, you're negligent if you fail to use circumstances to your advantage to paint a witness as potentially untrustworthy even when those circumstances have nothing to do with the case at hand (i.e. Jeantel lying about her age or other unrelated matter).

I personally find anything other than reliance on the facts to be distasteful, but that's my academic's bias. Everyone has to decide for themselves where that line is, I guess. That's why I plan to stay away from criminal defense work and focus on environmental law and trade policy.

I wasn't saying the lawyer is a racist per se, but that he was exploiting latent racial bias in jurors to paint the image of Trayvon as one of "those blacks" so they would see an aggressor rather than a kid. The lawyer was doing his job, I just find it distasteful.

 

[orejon4]

As predicted, the attempted discrediting of Trayvon's family, friends and background in an attempt to more effectively "urbanize" him, has begun to yield fruit: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Did-Marijuana-Use-Make-Tra-by-earl-ofari-hutchin-130709-252.html