Trayvon Martin's Murder

[goodlove]

Look s like TM was on top of Zimmerman...... Game changer.....

so.....

are you saying that tray loses his right to the self defense because he was winning a fight? also a witness says the guy on ntop was using MMA moves. GZ took up mma. GZ also stated he didnt know anything about SYG but he took classes where it covered it and they talked extensively and he got an A in the class...as stated by the professor of the class.

now what?

 

[Bliss]

It's a complex issue. The type of legal system we have (English Common Law) is premised on the idea that vigorous advocacy on both sides ultimately yields the best result (and most just). The Civil Law system (like what you find in France and much of Continental Europe) is more fact and statute driven. In fact, we discussed the tension lawyers face in using every tool at their disposal to advocate on their client's behalf and whether failure to do so amounts to a failure to adequately fight for their client. From this standpoint, you're negligent if you fail to use circumstances to your advantage to paint a witness as potentially untrustworthy even when those circumstances have nothing to do with the case at hand (i.e. Jeantel lying about her age or other unrelated matter).

I personally find anything other than reliance on the facts to be distasteful, but that's my academic's bias. Everyone has to decide for themselves where that line is, I guess. That's why I plan to stay away from criminal defense work and focus on environmental law and trade policy.

I wasn't saying the lawyer is a racist per se, but that he was exploiting latent racial bias in jurors to paint the image of Trayvon as one of "those blacks" so they would see an aggressor rather than a kid. The lawyer was doing his job, I just find it distasteful.

Kudos to your choice in Law. The environment needs a voice. :smt038

From what I understood, Jeantel lied about her age so she would not be forced to testify? If so, I can see how it does relate directly to the case..she is basically Trayvon's last voice and they will think/say she is lying.

I do not agree with you on the 'latent racial bias" of this jury, just like I didn't agree with Stumper saying the opposite that Black people were not chosen because they could not fairly decide this case due to 'a latent racial bias". Too much stereotyping going on.

As predicted, the attempted discrediting of Trayvon's family, friends and background in an attempt to more effectively "urbanize" him, has begun to yield fruit: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Did-Marijuana-Use-Make-Tra-by-earl-ofari-hutchin-130709-252.html

Have you been watching the trial? You can blame the Prosecution's witness for this. The Medical Examiner reversed his finding on trace weed not affecting behavior to affecting behavior (he said he can change his mind every half hour if he wanted to") :shock: I think the Prosecution were mortified and the Defense delighted. Which is why they asked for a hearing and the Judge had no choice but to allow an expert to speak on the effects, or GZ would be re-tried on appeal if convicted.

Personally I think despite it, it'll work in the Pro's favor because weed to me is a sedative, time and actions move much slower... I don't think the jury will buy "violent tendencies" though paranoia if suggested might be a cause for concern.

 

[Addolorata]

I'm going to stay neutral in all of this...

 

[goodlove]

Kudos to your choice in Law. The environment needs a voice. :smt038

From what I understood, Jeantel lied about her age so she would not be forced to testify? If so, I can see how it does relate directly to the case..she is basically Trayvon's last voice and they will think/say she is lying.

I do not agree with you on the 'latent racial bias" of this jury, just like I didn't agree with Stumper saying the opposite that Black people were not chosen because they could not fairly decide this case due to 'a latent racial bias". Too much stereotyping going on.




Have you been watching the trial? You can blame the Prosecution's witness for this. The Medical Examiner reversed his finding on trace weed not affecting behavior to affecting behavior (he said he can change his mind every half hour if he wanted to") :shock: I think the Prosecution were mortified and the Defense delighted. Which is why they asked for a hearing and the Judge had no choice but to allow an expert to speak on the effects, or GZ would be re-tried on appeal if convicted.

Personally I think despite it, it'll work in the Pro's favor because weed to me is a sedative, time and actions move much slower... I don't think the jury will buy "violent tendencies" though paranoia if suggested might be a cause for concern.

i dont think her lying about going to a funeral or exactly what tray hurt them because when she came out with "cracker" ........hell....anyone with half a mind would have lied about him saying that. I mean really who would question her about exactly what he said

 

[Bliss]

i dont think her lying about going to a funeral or exactly what tray hurt them because when she came out with "cracker" ........hell....anyone with half a mind would have lied about him saying that. I mean really who would question her about exactly what he said

True, but I thought it was mentioned her later lying about her age so she didn't have to testify by law, not the funeral. I didn't know she lied about the funeral. Why did she about that, do you know?

@ the cracker comment, did she tell them that in the original Depo? She may have been compelled to.
(Assuming she did) If she switched it up on the stand in front of the Jury, then that would be a 3rd lie....So I see why she would admit to it, even though it didn't look good for Tray.

 

[goodlove]

True, but I thought it was mentioned her later lying about her age so she didn't have to testify by law, not the funeral. I didn't know she lied about the funeral. Why did she about that, do you know?

@ the cracker comment, did she tell them that in the original Depo? She may have been compelled to.
(Assuming she did) If she switched it up on the stand in front of the Jury, then that would be a 3rd lie....So I see why she would admit to it, even though it didn't look good for Tray.

oh the age thing...that was for not being ID'ed and interviewed by the media

 

[goodlove]

True, but I thought it was mentioned her later lying about her age so she didn't have to testify by law, not the funeral. I didn't know she lied about the funeral. Why did she about that, do you know?

@ the cracker comment, did she tell them that in the original Depo? She may have been compelled to.
(Assuming she did) If she switched it up on the stand in front of the Jury, then that would be a 3rd lie....So I see why she would admit to it, even though it didn't look good for Tray.

self defence? Self defense from what exactly. TM squared up against a guy he didn't think was armed. Instead of running his ass off to his dads house or calmly saying where he lives he jumped fly and got his ass shot......

So instead of thinking you can handle someone in the streets and try to handle things like a tough guy this a great lesson that that dudecmight be armed.....and if you jump on him you might get blasted.

so you are saying its trays fault?

why should he run when he is not doing anything?

also why should zim take it upon himself to investigate? the police even said they wouldnt have done anything if they saw tray...so are they wrong?

lastly , the law states he can stand his ground. so is tray wrong for SYG?

 

[orejon4]

Kudos to your choice in Law. The environment needs a voice. :smt038

From what I understood, Jeantel lied about her age so she would not be forced to testify? If so, I can see how it does relate directly to the case..she is basically Trayvon's last voice and they will think/say she is lying.

I do not agree with you on the 'latent racial bias" of this jury, just like I didn't agree with Stumper saying the opposite that Black people were not chosen because they could not fairly decide this case due to 'a latent racial bias". Too much stereotyping going on.

Have you been watching the trial? You can blame the Prosecution's witness for this. The Medical Examiner reversed his finding on trace weed not affecting behavior to affecting behavior (he said he can change his mind every half hour if he wanted to") :shock: I think the Prosecution were mortified and the Defense delighted. Which is why they asked for a hearing and the Judge had no choice but to allow an expert to speak on the effects, or GZ would be re-tried on appeal if convicted.

Personally I think despite it, it'll work in the Pro's favor because weed to me is a sedative, time and actions move much slower... I don't think the jury will buy "violent tendencies" though paranoia if suggested might be a cause for concern.

Let me make it absolutely clear, because earlier replies to my comments seem to indicate that I am accusing the jury and defense of being racists. I AM NOT ACCUSING THEM OF RACISM. What I am saying is that the defense IS actively painting a picture of Trayvon as a "menacing black youth" to more effectively convince the jury of a 'propensity' for violence. It is overwhelmingly composed of suburban mothers and the most effective way of counteracting their instinctive sympathy as mothers is by painting an image of Trayvon as "that kind of black kid", the one that single women driving through the city at night lock their car doors when passing. The defense attorney is doing his job. I find it nauseating, but that's what his job is: to take advantage of anything he can use to cause the jury to doubt witnesses for the prosecution (and more so when helped by bungling witnesses like Ms. Jeantel) and tell the narrative he wants to tell. I do believe it has a racial component to it because there is no cultural shorthand for crime that is as potent as the threat (implicit or explicit) of black male violence in the modern media and the average white mind. There simply is no white corollary with the same widespread cultural acceptance. Labeling someone as "White trash" simply does not provide as powerful a set of accepted images, nor convey the same threat in the mass mind, and even more so in the white mind (obviously I'm speaking in general, not every single white person in the nation).

i dont think her lying about going to a funeral or exactly what tray hurt them because when she came out with "cracker" ........hell....anyone with half a mind would have lied about him saying that. I mean really who would question her about exactly what he said

I'm not saying this is what Tray meant if/when he used the term, but I have to tell you that 'Cracker' in Florida is a non-racist phrase used in FL to refer to non-foreign born whites who have lived in the state for generations. Whites in FL call themselves 'Florida Crackers' the same way Indianans call themselves 'Indiana Hoosiers' - which is itself a pejorative in the rest of the midwest. It comes from them 'cracking' their whips during cattle drives south through the center of the state. True story.

 

[Bliss]

GOODLOVE!!!! ^^^
WTF u co-signing me for, in your questions and reply to Paniro???! SMDH

 

[goodlove]

GOODLOVE!!!! ^^^
WTF u co-signing me for, in your questions and reply to Paniro???! SMDH

two things../../

oner it seems the comp kept you up and i didnt catch it.


two. dont you ever curse me. I never cursed you so thus be respectful.

 

[Bliss]

two things../../

oner it seems the comp kept you up and i didnt catch it.


two. dont you ever curse me. I never cursed you so thus be respectful.

'Why the fuck' is not cursing YOU! For Gods sake, man. Now kindly edit my post out, TY!

 

[goodlove]

'Why the fuck' is not cursing YOU! For Gods sake, man. Now kindly edit my post out, TY!

uuuhhh hold up. yes it is. when you say it to the party you are talking to....you are cursing at them. next, just because I accidently put u in doesnt mean its disrepectful or a slam on you.

now you kindly aplogize for your disrepectful post. as you see paniro and i are having a lively debate...and no matter how wrong he is i havent cursed him...as far as I remember.

 

[Bliss]

uuuhhh hold up. yes it is. when you say it to the party you are talking to....you are cursing at them. next, just because I accidently put u in doesnt mean its disrepectful or a slam on you.

now you kindly aplogize for your disrepectful post. as you see paniro and i are having a lively debate...and no matter how wrong he is i havent cursed him...as far as I remember.

Oh BS, if I said "YOU FUCKING IDIOT", yes that's cursing you. But if I say WTF and SMDH, then I am cursing. You said 'don't you ever curse me" You do realize that, right?

 

[goodlove]

You must have hit him in the feels.......

well if you want respect....you have to give it. LOL. of course GOP dont understand that.

example......Dr. laura slining outr the N-word and when people call her out she screams her constitutional rights. classic.


brietbart....editing the vid so a woman look like a racist to get at obama but he got put on blast and he refused to apologized. classic

 

[goodlove]

Oh BS, if I said "YOU FUCKING IDIOT", yes that's cursing you. But if I say WTF and SMDH, then I am cursing. You said 'don't you ever curse me" You do realize that, right?

bliss if you arent willing to apologize....then just ig me. what i did was accident...what you did was just outright disrepectful, mean-spirited and thought out.

also, what i did wasnt disrepectful...wasnt mean spirited, nor was the tone of the post mean spirited.

again if you can acknowledge your mistake like I did then ig me and be done with it...

and 2nd posting of the cursing.

 

[goodlove]

Let me make it absolutely clear, because earlier replies to my comments seem to indicate that I am accusing the jury and defense of being racists. I AM NOT ACCUSING THEM OF RACISM. What I am saying is that the defense IS actively painting a picture of Trayvon as a "menacing black youth" to more effectively convince the jury of a 'propensity' for violence. It is overwhelmingly composed of suburban mothers and the most effective way of counteracting their instinctive sympathy as mothers is by painting an image of Trayvon as "that kind of black kid", the one that single women driving through the city at night lock their car doors when passing. The defense attorney is doing his job. I find it nauseating, but that's what his job is: to take advantage of anything he can use to cause the jury to doubt witnesses for the prosecution (and more so when helped by bungling witnesses like Ms. Jeantel) and tell the narrative he wants to tell. I do believe it has a racial component to it because there is no cultural shorthand for crime that is as potent as the threat (implicit or explicit) of black male violence in the modern media and the average white mind. There simply is no white corollary with the same widespread cultural acceptance. Labeling someone as "White trash" simply does not provide as powerful a set of accepted images, nor convey the same threat in the mass mind, and even more so in the white mind (obviously I'm speaking in general, not every single white person in the nation).



I'm not saying this is what Tray meant if/when he used the term, but I have to tell you that 'Cracker' in Florida is a non-racist phrase used in FL to refer to non-foreign born whites who have lived in the state for generations. Whites in FL call themselves 'Florida Crackers' the same way Indianans call themselves 'Indiana Hoosiers' - which is itself a pejorative in the rest of the midwest. It comes from them 'cracking' their whips during cattle drives south through the center of the state. True story.

i heard that...but the lawyer asked her dont you think thats a derogatory term and she stated no. so the lawyer saw it as so many in that courtroom probably saw it as racist

 

[orejon4]

i heard that...but the lawyer asked her dont you think thats a derogatory term and she stated no. so the lawyer saw it as so many in that courtroom probably saw it as racist

Sad but true.

 

[goodlove]

so you are saying its trays fault?

why should he run when he is not doing anything?

also why should zim take it upon himself to investigate? the police even said they wouldnt have done anything if they saw tray...so are they wrong?

lastly , the law states he can stand his ground. so is tray wrong for SYG?

self defence? Self defense from what exactly. TM squared up against a guy he didn't think was armed. Instead of running his ass off to his dads house or calmly saying where he lives he jumped fly and got his ass shot......

So instead of thinking you can handle someone in the streets and try to handle things like a tough guy this a great lesson that that dudecmight be armed.....and if you jump on him you might get blasted.

LOL. its funny you still are unable to answer the questions....thus it shows that you are so willing to side with anyone who seeks the destruction and murder of a black person.

 

[goodlove]

I always thought you seemed off by how you always quote yourself. But now I can tell you off off your rocker.

uuuh yeah. i can go with at least 70% accuracy and say yeah I said "a b and c. " that is a good thing. acknopwledging what I stated and manning up to it.

if i offend someone and they call me out and I see wrong in it...then yeah i will apologize. thats what men do. of course you arent a man and dont understand common decency.
have I said offensive stuff ....yes...mostly joking and the receiver also knows its joking so thus its no need to apologize for it.

so getting the facts out before you and trying to be decent is off your rocker then sent me to the 13th floor.

are you and bliss looking thru all my posts to justify you guys position.

 

[Bliss]

bliss if you arent willing to apologize....then just ig me. what i did was accident...what you did was just outright disrepectful, mean-spirited and thought out.

also, what i did wasnt disrepectful...wasnt mean spirited, nor was the tone of the post mean spirited.

again if you can acknowledge your mistake like I did then ig me and be done with it...

and 2nd posting of the cursing.

WTF??! "Planned and thought out and mean spirited?? Do you even KNOW what those words mean? UGH. Spare me your crocodile tears, let's not speak to each other again, I am very fine with that. Peace.