Trayvon Martin's Murder

[Bliss]

Mature, intelligent & creative people know how to debate without resorting to insults....

Agreed! Ignore them if you can't debate them.

I'm in the camp of him deserving manslaughter no doubt. But I'm not in the camp that he went out to kill TM on purpose.

I also find it funny how people on both sides of this a quick to dismiss the pasts of both here.

Pani, he may not have 'went out to kill TM', but he did seek him out to target.
For whatever reason, Trayvon fit his INTENTION - remember, he was on his self appointed NHW, so he was intentionally looking to profile people. And he found a target he didn't recognize.

It never occurred to him that the teen could just be walking there visiting/living in the complex, because GZ was looking for action that night that didn't exist.

The signs in the Complex said 'We will report all suspicious activity to the police.' What exactly was that 'suspicious activity' when he called 911? Peering into cars? Windows? Approaching other residents? Hiding in bushes?

Listen to the call... GZ wasted that operator's time, pure and simple.

 

[Ches]

you said that to the wrong person..

No, I didn't. I was giving him information. Had I said it to the "right" person, it would have come off as a backhanded insult....

 

[flaminghetero]

Agreed! Ignore them if you can't debate them.



Pani, he may not have 'went out to kill TM', but he did seek him out to target.
For whatever reason, Trayvon fit his INTENTION - remember, he was on his self appointed NHW, so he was intentionally looking to profile people. And he found a target he didn't recognize.

It never occurred to him that the teen could just be walking there visiting/living in the complex, because GZ was looking for action that night that didn't exist.

The signs in the Complex said 'We will report all suspicious activity to the police.' What exactly was that 'suspicious activity' when he called 911? Peering into cars? Windows? Approaching other residents? Hiding in bushes?

Listen to the call... GZ wasted that operator's time, pure and simple.

 

[The Dark King]

Its weird when these dudes who are so open minded don't have anything to say about this shit when people make solid points.

 

[andreboba]

Like I said manslaughter for sure but def not anything higher

My firearms knowledge is limited, but is it common for someone with a concealed carry permit to have their firearm chambered with a bullet ready to fire the moment they pull it out??

That seems extreme for someone who isn't a police officer.

Zimmerman was driving around that condo complex with a 9mm that didn't have to be cocked and was ready to fire on someone as soon as he drew his weapon.

That's crazy IMO.

Do people who own firearms on this forum have the safety off their weapons at home, or have their guns chambered, fully loaded and ready to fire AT ALL TIMES?? Or at least when they leave the house??:smt102

I don't know where everyone lives, but where I stay outside of D.C., if some random self-appointed neighborhood watch captain shot to death an unarmed teen with no criminal record and claimed it was self-defense, he'd be in jail for at least 10-15 years.

There wouldn't be a debate about who was in the wrong.

Zimmerman is being given credibility and the benefit of the doubt for a scenario that makes no sense, except for a vigilante.

We all see people who are unfamiliar to us occasionally walking around where we live, but who the fuck FOLLOWS that person with a concealed weapon, gets in a confrontation and shoots them, then acts like it wasn't their fault??

 

[Beasty]

My firearms knowledge is limited, but is it common for someone with a concealed carry permit to have their firearm chambered with a bullet ready to fire the moment they pull it out??

That seems extreme for someone who isn't a police officer.

Zimmerman was driving around that condo complex with a 9mm that didn't have to be cocked and was ready to fire on someone as soon as he drew his weapon.

That's crazy IMO.

Do people who own firearms on this forum have the safety off their weapons at home, or have their guns chambered, fully loaded and ready to fire AT ALL TIMES?? Or at least when they leave the house??:smt102

I don't know where everyone lives, but where I stay outside of D.C., if some random self-appointed neighborhood watch captain shot to death an unarmed teen with no criminal record and claimed it was self-defense, he'd be in jail for at least 10-15 years.

There wouldn't be a debate about who was in the wrong.

Zimmerman is being given credibility and the benefit of the doubt for a scenario that makes no sense, except for a vigilante.

We all see people who are unfamiliar to us occasionally walking around where we live, but who the fuck FOLLOWS that person with a concealed weapon, gets in a confrontation and shoots them, then acts like it wasn't their fault??

I only carry when I leave town and I don't keep a round chambered ever. If I chamber a round it will only be because I feel my life is in danger. I don't ever expect to be in a gun fight but a lot of unexpected things happen in life. Its so much better to have it and not need it than the other way around. None of my friends carry with rounds chambered, that does not make sense to me either. With what GZ was doing he could have had a holster that retains the gun if someone tries to pull it, they do make holsters that will only release the gun if it is pulled in a certain way, just incase someone tried to grab your gun. This will also allow you to kick some ass while you are armed if need be with no fear of someone taking your gun. I think cops have them as well.

 

[orejon4]

I'm still nauseated by the race and class-baiting attack against Ms. Jeantel being launched in the national media.

 

[orejon4]

I'm curious to find out if any of the same people who where all over Rachel Jeantel will now do the same type of ignorant stereotyping of the Asian Medical Examiner by calling him a disgrace to all Asians because he doesn't speak English perfectly being as educated as he is. But of course if he gets stereotyped at all it will be the good stereotype of being a smart Asian & a doctor too boot.............

Agreed.

It's ridiculous, no? She's not the focus of the trial, but Glenn Beck and others have spent more time deriding her and destroying her character than they do of discussing the merits of her claims.

You just answered your own question. He is extremely educated, has a Ph. D, and is obviously an immigrant, who probably speaks his native language better. Rachel Jeantel was a 19 year "senior" who couldn't read cursive writing, was blatantly mocking both lawyers, and who was disrespectful to everyone she encountered.
If Jeantel was a doctor, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt. But she wasn't.

Since when has education been a prerequisite to basic human kindness and respect? And besides, judging from her surname, Ms. Jeantel could very well be a young woman of immigrant origins, who, due to limited exposure, may in fact be uncomfortable with standardized professional English. I'm educated and I don't do well with cursive writing either. Maybe her mocking the lawyers was due to her overall level of immaturity. And again, this all has very little to do with why Zimmerman ignored police instructions to leave him alone and shot an unarmed teen. I'd like to see everyone remain focused on the true issue here.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

It's ridiculous, no? She's not the focus of the trial, but Glenn Beck and others have spent more time deriding her and destroying her character than they do of discussing the merits of her claims.



Since when has education been a prerequisite to basic human kindness and respect? And besides, judging from her surname, Ms. Jeantel could very well be a young woman of immigrant origins, who, due to limited to exposure, may in fact be uncomfortable with standardized professional English. I'm educated and I don't do well with cursive writing either. Maybe her mocking the lawyers was due to her overall level of immaturity. And again, this all has very little to do with why Zimmerman ignored police instructions to leave him alone and shot an unarmed teen. I'd like to see everyone remain focused on the true issue here.

She is of immigrant origin. I'll try to find something online if I can, but it was mentioned in passing on a couple of TV discussions that she was. Not that it would make a difference in any way to some people.

 

[orejon4]

She is of immigrant origin. I'll try to find something online if I can, but it was mentioned in passing on a couple of TV discussions that she was. Not that it would make a difference in any way to some people.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ra again.

Thanks for pointing that out, Ra. It's like people are conveniently forgetting that a person is a sum total of their experiences, and often, limited exposure means limited experiences and thus, limited ability to express oneself as well as a variety of other limitations. The nastiness of these attacks (by "educated, professional" pundits who have had plenty of access and exposure) says more about the attackers than it does about Ms. Jeantel.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

And to answer the question is she of immigrant origins : She was born of Haitian-Dominican Republic immigrant parents.

 

[Bliss]

My take...

Can you summarize? At work, not able to watch/listen....

In a nutshell... the Medical Examiner.... was just awful! Kept changing his testimony, and said he can't recall any of the autopsy (could only refer to his notes). He went off on tangents. frustrating to watch. Terrible witness, IMO.

2. Both mothers briefly took the stand...both claimed it was their son screaming help (to be expected). IDK why they were even called.

3.Tray's brother said it was Tray, however he did have to defend that he once said it didn't sound like him.

4. GZ's Uncle, very adamant (and convincing) that it was George. Last witness.

End of this day, the Defense won in terms of witness testimony.

The Prosecution won in terms of securing a Trial Continuance from the Judge. (as expected when the Prosecution rests). The Defense cited previous case law of SYG. It was a very interesting debate they both presented, because it reiterated each side's position in a nutshell.

 

[Mikey]

She is of immigrant origin. I'll try to find something online if I can, but it was mentioned in passing on a couple of TV discussions that she was. Not that it would make a difference in any way to some people.

I'm still nauseated by the race and class-baiting attack against Ms. Jeantel being launched in the national media.

I understand your point of view Orejon and it makes sense, so I'll say what I think the overreaching problem is based on her testimony. Most of the country fears that it will promote more social upheaval and social discord with interactions between humans (especially of different races) living in America.

If the defense were to win their case, minorities and people who are politically liberal would be outraged and riot. If the state won the case, whites/the large population of people who defended Zimmerman would be upset and possibly create protests and riots for Zimmerman.

No matter which way the case goes, its a loss for the American people and it pushes us closer to a social breakdown/general loss of civility within the country.

Edit: Actually it started to happen already.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/04/pkg-profane-tirade-at-school-board.news-12

 

[orejon4]

And to answer the question is she of immigrant origins : She was born of Haitian-Dominican Republic immigrant parents.

And we all know that children of non-English dominant parents in communities with large populations of non-English dominant and less-educated English dominant speakers often speak dialects that are based in their communities and not the larger, more formalized society at-large.

I understand your point of view Orejon and it makes sense, so I'll say what I think the overreaching problem is based on her testimony. Most of the country fears that it will promote more social upheaval and social discord with interactions between humans (especially of different races) living in America.

If the defense were to win their case, minorities and people who are politically liberal would be outraged and riot. If the state won the case, whites/the large population of people who defended Zimmerman would be upset and possibly create protests and riots for Zimmerman.

No matter which way the case goes, its a loss for the American people and it pushes us closer to a social breakdown/general loss of civility within the country.

Edit: Actually it started to happen already.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/04/pkg-profane-tirade-at-school-board.news-12

People who would use the conviction of a murderer of an unarmed child as the basis for a riot or racial hostility are already deemed not to be people of good will and their views should have no effect on the criminal justice process. While I am sorry this country continues to have such a profound problem with race, I don't care about the feelings of such people. I want justice served, period.

 

[TheHuntress]

Pissed about what? We already know how this country is. After over a year of character assassinations on TM I am almost sure there will be a biased jury that will let him walk, evidence be damed.

True.

I haven't been following the trial that closely, because honestly, I just don't have the stomach for it. I know I'll hear bits and pieces, and I don't have the time to be upset about something I am not involved in.

I do think this case is breaking the wounds wide open and revealing a fundamental problem in this country when it comes to equality and race, and people don't like that. We freak the fuck out whenever race comes to the table...just look at the situation with Paula Deen.

Do I think GZ needs to go to jail? Yes. Do I think that TM was totally innocent? No, not really. I'm sure there was a fight. However, AGAIN, we will never know because GZ brought a freakin' gun to the party and Trayvon will never get the chance to speak for himself, and that's why he needs to go to jail. At least, in my opinion.

 

[Beasty]

Was TM somewhere he was not supposed to be? The answer is no. I trying to imagine some dude following me asking me where I am going even if he is saying he is neighborhood watch. GTFO! Anybody can say that. Bottom line is I don't have to tell you shit. End of story.

 

[archangel]

I don't understand why she didn't say that she didn't know cursive or even better why she didn't use a computer(smart phones are computer just very small ones) to get a recording or type stuff down. I mean that lawyer made her look like .... ( you can finish the rest)

 

[andreboba]

Was TM somewhere he was not supposed to be? The answer is no. I trying to imagine some dude following me asking me where I am going even if he is saying he is neighborhood watch. GTFO! Anybody can say that. Bottom line is I don't have to tell you shit. End of story.

LOL. Truth.
I do a LOT of shoulder shrugging when I'm out especially if I'm not in the mood to have a conversation.

There's no way I'm just talking to a stranger at night for some bullshit reason.

 

[The Dark King]

LOL. Truth.
I do a LOT of shoulder shrugging when I'm out especially if I'm not in the mood to have a conversation.

There's no way I'm just talking to a stranger at night for some bullshit reason.

Especially if said dude is following you in the dark. The worst thing or best thing depending on your pov is that if this had been a white teenager followed by a "concerned" black citizen this shit would be open and shut on the night of the shooting.

 

[goodlove]

my question is people always ask....why was he there and was he suppose to be there and I reply he was to see his father but lets pretend he was just passing through....did he have to die over that?