help..wonderful white women/parents

TreePixie said:
As I said in one of the posts, I know I'm a bitch, I know I'm relentless, and I know I'm a hardass. All part of the pixie charm. ;-)
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pixie charm;-)

TreePixie said:
Yeah in some post-racial, post feminist, post-homophobia utopia where the unicorns fart rainbows and the sun never sets.
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my sister from another mister

TDR said:
LoL, I see a name change in the air, pixie= A relentless hardass bitch, lol.
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lippy has already taken that quote:-P
 
TreePixie said:
That's where you're wrong on transgenderism, but that's a bit of a derail. It's been proved that in utero, the brain and body are gendered at different times during gestation, which can set up a conflict....they truly have the brain of one gender and the appearance of another (and lets leave aside the intersexed at the moment for clarity's sake). If a transman or a transwoman lives as the opposite gender, changes their appearance through hormones, dress, and or surgery, they became the gender of their brain. I know several transwomen who are every bit a woman just as you or I do, and during their transition they live as and are treated as women. Because their appearance has changed, their voice has changed, their mannerism has changed, etc.

"Biracial" children do not have the option to change their skin color. They will always be seen as black, regardless of whether they grow up in a mansion or a mud hut. They will be treated as black, period. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is the reality.
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I don't deny the brain aspects of some transgendered people. But sexual classification isn't about the size of the corpus callosum. Sexual classification is about the phenotypic difference between a man and a woman. As long as a person has a penis their classification is male and as long as they have a vagina their classification is female. Once surgery is done and that person now ALSO has the phenotypic difference they will then be classified as the gender of the that sex. It would be incorrect to call a transgendered male (pre-op) a female. You can say "transgendered female" or something to that nature but female is equal to female organ.

As far as how people get treated it alot more complex then that. Do all biracial people get seen as black? No they do not. Their is not a set phenotype for a biracial person therefore you can have many different appearances. They may look European, they may look African, they may look Asian, Native American, Arab, Indian, and our non race that we often classify racially and stereotypically any way, Hispanic and everything in between. One individual may spend their entire lives only been seen by one thing others multiple different things. The reality for most US mixes though is they are normally seen as multiple races/ethic groups. Therefore "treatment" will be based upon what the individual beholder sees and how they choose to treat some with that phenotype. Black, white, Indian, Arab, Native American, Asian, Hispanic are all groups now to receive various kinds of racial discrimination in the US (white only at personal and not institutional). And different kinds of discrimination within each group based on skin tone, hair type, features. So to say that if you are mixed with black you will be treated as black is not correct. If you do however have disguised features that are associated with black it is very likely you will face discrimination at some in your life for being a member of the black race even if you are not aware of it. But that is not to say you will not ALSO receive racism for being thought to be of one of the other racial groups, and like I said not even all mixed with black people are even identifiable as black. If you are mistaken for monoracial white you will be a recipient of white privilege and may undergo racism on a personal level. If you look like your mixed with white you may also encounter racism for being a member of that racial group again on a personal level. But how you are treated and seen in society is only a small fraction of racial identity. Some choose to identify wholly with a race based on culture and where they feel comfortable. Quite different from allowing others to choose your identify for you and very unhealthy to allow others to choose for you.
If one's reason to not identify with their race is b/c no one will accept them are view them as a member of that racial group then one is choosing oppression for themselves. Oppression as in allowing someone to take your right to classify your self. Injustices are meant to be fought not bowed down too. Those who are mixed of two or more races deserve the right to be able to identify themselves by their racial groups. Refusing to allow them that right is only holding us back as a society.
 
ReginaStar said:
I don't deny the brain aspects of some transgendered people. But sexual classification isn't about the size of the corpus callosum. Sexual classification is about the phenotypic difference between a man and a woman. As long as a person has a penis their classification is male and as long as they have a vagina their classification is female. Once surgery is done and that person now ALSO has the phenotypic difference they will then be classified as the gender of the that sex. It would be incorrect to call a transgendered male (pre-op) a female. You can say "transgendered female" or something to that nature but female is equal to female organ.

As far as how people get treated it alot more complex then that. Do all biracial people get seen as black? No they do not. Their is not a set phenotype for a biracial person therefore you can have many different appearances. They may look European, they may look African, they may look Asian, Native American, Arab, Indian, and our non race that we often classify racially and stereotypically any way, Hispanic and everything in between. One individual may spend their entire lives only been seen by one thing others multiple different things. The reality for most US mixes though is they are normally seen as multiple races/ethic groups. Therefore "treatment" will be based upon what the individual beholder sees and how they choose to treat some with that phenotype. Black, white, Indian, Arab, Native American, Asian, Hispanic are all groups now to receive various kinds of racial discrimination in the US (white only at personal and not institutional). And different kinds of discrimination within each group based on skin tone, hair type, features. So to say that if you are mixed with black you will be treated as black is not correct. If you do however have disguised features that are associated with black it is very likely you will face discrimination at some in your life for being a member of the black race even if you are not aware of it. But that is not to say you will not ALSO receive racism for being thought to be of one of the other racial groups, and like I said not even all mixed with black people are even identifiable as black. If you are mistaken for monoracial white you will be a recipient of white privilege and may undergo racism on a personal level. If you look like your mixed with white you may also encounter racism for being a member of that racial group again on a personal level. But how you are treated and seen in society is only a small fraction of racial identity. Some choose to identify wholly with a race based on culture and where they feel comfortable. Quite different from allowing others to choose your identify for you and very unhealthy to allow others to choose for you.
If one's reason to not identify with their race is b/c no one will accept them are view them as a member of that racial group then one is choosing oppression for themselves. Oppression as in allowing someone to take your right to classify your self. Injustices are meant to be fought not bowed down too. Those who are mixed of two or more races deserve the right to be able to identify themselves by their racial groups. Refusing to allow them that right is only holding us back as a society.
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A little moment borrowed from another message board -

::Pixie grabs a scrub brush and busily begins work on the nearest raccoon:::
 
MrFantastic said:
Thread shut down. This said it all
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TDR said:
Damn, I wish I could rep you for this.

Regina give it up, we all have mix backgrounds and choose to identify as black, with all due respect you're not a black mother and you don't exactly experience what the struggle blk kids experience, so enough with your nonsense.
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Tamstrong said:
Brilliant post, Swirl! :smt038
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ktplay said:
absolute perfection
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whikle said:
Great post, Swirl, definitely helped answer some questions little ol' naive Australian me had about this topic, especially the bolded ;)
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I really appreciate the kind and gracious words of everyone regarding this issue. As always, my desire is to advance the discussion is some way. In this way, we all benefit as each posting triggers thoughts in other members and we gain a better insight based on many different viewpoints.

Understanding does not come down like rain. For some of us, that moment of clarity comes as we focus of "listening" rather than thinking only of responses.

In the end, people can choose to stick to dogma and rhetoric regardless of any presentation of well stated positions.

It's interesting that she chooses to couch each of her responses, whether in this thread or other equally controversial threads, as simply her opinions. After some point, repeated insistence and defense without acknowledgment appears more to be an attempt to sway others, and not just share an opinion.

But then again, that's my opinion...
 
swirlman07 said:
I really appreciate the kind and gracious words of everyone regarding this issue. As always, my desire is to advance the discussion is some way. In this way, we all benefit as each posting triggers thoughts in other members and we gain a better insight based on many different viewpoints.

Understanding does not come down like rain. For some of us, that moment of clarity comes as we focus of "listening" rather than thinking only of responses.

In the end, people can choose to stick to dogma and rhetoric regardless of any presentation of well stated positions.

It's interesting that she chooses to couch each of her responses, whether in this thread or other equally controversial threads, as simply her opinions. After some point, repeated insistence and defense without acknowledgment appears more to be an attempt to sway others, and not just share an opinion.

But then again, that's my opinion...
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Repped. I like your opinion.
 
swirlman07 said:
I really appreciate the kind and gracious words of everyone regarding this issue. As always, my desire is to advance the discussion is some way. In this way, we all benefit as each posting triggers thoughts in other members and we gain a better insight based on many different viewpoints.

Understanding does not come down like rain. For some of us, that moment of clarity comes as we focus of "listening" rather than thinking only of responses.

In the end, people can choose to stick to dogma and rhetoric regardless of any presentation of well stated positions.

It's interesting that she chooses to couch each of her responses, whether in this thread or other equally controversial threads, as simply her opinions. After some point, repeated insistence and defense without acknowledgment appears more to be an attempt to sway others, and not just share an opinion.

But then again, that's my opinion...
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Well stated, Swirl. I agree. :smt023
 
Yeah, Swirlman, I like your opinion. I think both sides are correct, if you have a bi-racial child, classify himself as whatever you'd like. Something could be created to identify the ethnicity of the children of an interracial family by the 2020 US census anyway. I would say it's based upon how the people who organize the US Census interpret it, not us.
 
swirlman07 said:
It's not coincidence that we share common thoughts. Someone has to "fight" the Jethos and Jethrines. It might as well be us, lol.
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We definitely think a lot alike (as great minds do), but I wish I had your finesse when it comes to expressing those thoughts. ;)We may as well; I think we'd make a good team in the fight against the Jethros & Jethrines. lol
 
Tamstrong said:
We definitely think a lot alike (as great minds do), but I wish I had your finesse when it comes to expressing those thoughts. ;)We may as well; I think we'd make a good team in the fight against the Jethros & Jethrines. lol
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Was that the name of the female version of Jethro that was played by Max Baer in drag on the show?
 
orejon4 said:
Was that the name of the female version of Jethro that was played by Max Baer in drag on the show?
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Yes it was. lol

1z6zdvn.jpg
 
TreePixie said:
There isn't. Your "racial identity" is how others view you. Let's look at gender identity a moment. I'm assuming you're familiar with transgenderism. If I dress like a woman, have obviously female secondary sexual characteristics such as breasts, wear make up, etc, the world is going to view me as a woman. If I was transgender, I might very well be mentally/emotionally "male" but until I change my appearance to match that, I'm going to be treated AS A WOMAN. That's why FtM and MtF transgender folk cross dress, get surgery and take hormones. To alter the way *other* people view their gender, and to make it match the gender they feel inside.

I could tell people I was a two headed green Martian, a plaid Saturnian, or a black American, but if my APPEARANCE is that of a white middle class middle aged female, THAT is how I'm going to be viewed and treated, with all the privilege (race and class)and lack of privilege (gender and age) which those attributes are granted by this society.

I understand you feel the necessity to have the last word, Regina, so I'll let you. My points have been made, and I suspect, well understood by the rest of the forum. So have at, dear woman, but understand that you seem pretty much out on your own limb on this topic.
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WOW!!
 
TreePixie said:
That's where you're wrong on transgenderism, but that's a bit of a derail. It's been proved that in utero, the brain and body are gendered at different times during gestation, which can set up a conflict....they truly have the brain of one gender and the appearance of another (and lets leave aside the intersexed at the moment for clarity's sake). If a transman or a transwoman lives as the opposite gender, changes their appearance through hormones, dress, and or surgery, they became the gender of their brain. I know several transwomen who are every bit a woman just as you or I do, and during their transition they live as and are treated as women. Because their appearance has changed, their voice has changed, their mannerism has changed, etc.

"Biracial" children do not have the option to change their skin color. They will always be seen as black, regardless of whether they grow up in a mansion or a mud hut. They will be treated as black, period. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is the reality.
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We like to call it "Pulling a Mikey"
 
Iggy said:
meh, let them call their kids whatever they want esp if they are black/white mixed.
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Wow, it's like agree with Iggy Day for me...lol

I agree with this, (coming in this thread all days late and shit, so I'm sure this was said) but being that those of us who are American, they need to realize that they'll be perceived and labeled as Black, no matter the mixture. Basically, they can tell us how they'd like to be labeled, but the reality isn't going to be the same unless you look Wentworth Miller or somebody...lol
 
Bill of Rights for Racially Mixed People
By Maria P.P. Root


I HAVE THE RIGHT...
-Not to justify my existence in this world.
-Not to keep the races separate within me.
-Not to be responsible for people's discomfort with my physical ambiguity.
-Not to justify my ethnic legitimacy.

I HAVE THE RIGHT...

-To identify myself differently than strangers expect me to identify.
-To identify myself differently from how my parents identify me.
-To identify myself differently from my brothers and sisters.
-To identify myself differently in different situations.

I HAVE THE RIGHT...

-To create a vocabulary to communicate about being multiracial.
-To change my identity over my lifetime -- and more than once.
-To have loyalties and identification with more than one group of people.
-To freely choose whom I befriend and love
 
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