help..wonderful white women/parents

[TreePixie]

In the US having pride in ones race runs along the same lines as having pride in ones ethnicity b/c different ethnic groups have mixed and evolved into American racial groups.

No. It simply doesn't, and it's disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that it does. The ONLY time that pride in race and white people are put together as concepts are by neo-Nazi and other similar extremist douchenozzles.

 

[z]

First, I agree with Yrma that's it's ironic to see a White person spending so much time attempting to explain why her definition of "race" is appropriate. I also find a lot of inconsistency in your position, but that's not the essence of my comment.

Acknowledging ethnicity is one thing, but to say that it's a "pride" thing suggests that there is an importance attached to races. The fact is the word pride implies superiority, which I find disturbing. This logically means that people should choose to define themselves by races out a sense of recognizing the "better" racial aspects of their background. Otherwise, what's the point in saying that it's about pride. I see no pride associated with race, only as a description that society chooses to impose on the person.

I believe that race has ABSOLUTELY NO INFLUENCE on who you are as person, unless you are a black person in America. Then, you are defined by your blackness, whether you are dope dealer or the President of the United States. For black Americans race can be a source of motivation because you understand how much you must overcome to have a measure of equality freely given to others by virtue of their race.

Both of my children are the products of two races, Black/Asian and Black/Spanish. I will always refer to my children as black as they have features that identify them with the Black race. It's much more important for me that they understand how they will be viewed by society and deal with those realities, in spite of any ethic description. For me, anything else is a disservice and creates a false sense that they might get "credit" for being part of another race. Of course they understand that their parents are of different races, but it's irrelevant. I care much more for their psychological well being and instilling in them the knowledge that they can't forget their blackness, because society certainly won't forget it.

In fact, arguably, people who choose to identify themselves as "bi-racial" could be subjected to more disdain, if part of the identification is with the White race. Many White Americans would find such associations to be offensive because they see something different. But, this is the state of racial politics in the United States today. So, I choose to be a realist.

Damn, I wish I could rep you for this.

Regina give it up, we all have mix backgrounds and choose to identify as black, with all due respect you're not a black mother and you don't exactly experience what the struggle blk kids experience, so enough with your nonsense.

 

[ReginaStar]

I can agree or disagree with a number of points raised here. This whole line of thought is problematic, but what do I know, I don't have children and can afford to be pedantic.
I don't have a personal issue with you, but are you really being honest with yourself about this not being a form advocacy? I mean, unprovoked you brought up the census, which just happens to be one of the forefront issues in this debate. I promised myself I wouldn't get in these type of discussions with you, but by god, you had to bring that shit up...

ok, now I'm done...

Ok.

I brought up the census b/c what I took from the post was there was a problem with the word "biracial" b/c no can identify you by the word biracial alone. I don't think that most people are identifying their children or themselves by biracial alone. I think they are identifying with each individual group. So therefore I brought the census b/c that is a time where most of make the choice to identity ourselves and our children by race. Didn't realize a big deal would be made of it. I just don't see this issue of biracial people failing to identify with their individual separate groups that was being portrayed in the OP.

 

[Tamstrong]

First, I agree with Yrma that's it's ironic to see a White person spending so much time attempting to explain why her definition of "race" is appropriate. I also find a lot of inconsistency in your position, but that's not the essence of my comment.

Acknowledging ethnicity is one thing, but to say that it's a "pride" thing suggests that there is an importance attached to races. The fact is the word pride implies superiority, which I find disturbing. This logically means that people should choose to define themselves by races out a sense of recognizing the "better" racial aspects of their background. Otherwise, what's the point in saying that it's about pride. I see no pride associated with race, only as a description that society chooses to impose on the person.

I believe that race has ABSOLUTELY NO INFLUENCE on who you are as person, unless you are a black person in America. Then, you are defined by your blackness, whether you are dope dealer or the President of the United States. For black Americans race can be a source of motivation because you understand how much you must overcome to have a measure of equality freely given to others by virtue of their race.

Both of my children are the products of two races, Black/Asian and Black/Spanish. I will always refer to my children as black as they have features that identify them with the Black race. It's much more important for me that they understand how they will be viewed by society and deal with those realities, in spite of any ethic description. For me, anything else is a disservice and creates a false sense that they might get "credit" for being part of another race. Of course they understand that their parents are of different races, but it's irrelevant. I care much more for their psychological well being and instilling in them the knowledge that they can't forget their blackness, because society certainly won't forget it.

In fact, arguably, people who choose to identify themselves as "bi-racial" could be subjected to more disdain, if part of the identification is with the White race. Many White Americans would find such associations to be offensive because they see something different. But, this is the state of racial politics in the United States today. So, I choose to be a realist.

Brilliant post, Swirl!

 

[ReginaStar]

Damn, I wish I could rep you for this.

Regina give it up, we all have mix backgrounds and choose to identify as black, with all due respect you're not a black mother and you don't exactly experience what the struggle blk kids experience, so enough with your nonsense.

Give up what exactly? Having my opinions?
So I'm discredited from having an opinion b/c I'm not black? So what exactly is the excuse used when the person that feels the way I do is biracial themselves or black. My husband for one is apart of that black experience.

 

[ReginaStar]

No. It simply doesn't, and it's disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that it does. The ONLY time that pride in race and white people are put together as concepts are by neo-Nazi and other similar extremist douchenozzles.

Sigh. How can one tell another what they do and don't have pride in and what it means to them? Do you say to those who is are biracial and are saying they have pride in their whiteness just as they do their blackness that they are some time of whtie supremacist or something to that nature?

 

[TreePixie]

Sigh. How can one tell another what they do and don't have pride in and what it means to them? Do you say to those who is are biracial and are saying they have pride in their whiteness just as they do their blackness that they are some time of whtie supremacist or something to that nature?

I'm saying that the words "White Pride" ought to give you pause right there. More than pause, in this forum.

No one's suggesting that people cannot connect with both parts of their cultural heritage - you're addressing in me someone who was raised by a genealogist mother and is well aware of exactly *who* my ancestors were, and whence they came. What's being questioned here is why you insist on hanging a useless label on your children which has squat to do with how they will be viewed in THIS culture and THIS society, not the post-racial imaginary one you appear to want to live in.

I'm a realist. I'm also a feminist, living in a culture which still undervalues women. Regardless of what kind of post-feminist utopia I'd like to live in, I have to live in THIS world, and in this world, I will *always* be seen as a woman first and a person second. In this world, "biracial" children are always going to be seen as black first, regardless of whether or not you think that's right or fair. It's reality.

And yes, I know I'm a bitch, I know I'm relentless, and I know I'm a hardass. It's all part of my charm.

 

[Tamstrong]

I'm saying that the words "White Pride" ought to give you pause right there. More than pause, in this forum.

No one's suggesting that people cannot connect with both parts of their cultural heritage - you're addressing in me someone who was raised by a genealogist mother and is well aware of exactly *who* my ancestors were, and whence they came. What's being questioned here is why you insist on hanging a useless label on your children which has squat to do with how they will be viewed in THIS culture and THIS society, not the post-racial imaginary one you appear to want to live in.

I'm a realist. I'm also a feminist, living in a culture which still undervalues women. Regardless of what kind of post-feminist utopia I'd like to live in, I have to live in THIS world, and in this world, I will *always* be seen as a woman first and a person second. In this world, "biracial" children are always going to be seen as black first, regardless of whether or not you think that's right or fair. It's reality.

And yes, I know I'm a bitch, I know I'm relentless, and I know I'm a hardass. It's all part of my charm.

:smt023

 

[ReginaStar]

I'm saying that the words "White Pride" ought to give you pause right there. More than pause, in this forum.

No one's suggesting that people cannot connect with both parts of their cultural heritage - you're addressing in me someone who was raised by a genealogist mother and is well aware of exactly *who* my ancestors were, and whence they came. What's being questioned here is why you insist on hanging a useless label on your children which has squat to do with how they will be viewed in THIS culture and THIS society, not the post-racial imaginary one you appear to want to live in.

I'm a realist. I'm also a feminist, living in a culture which still undervalues women. Regardless of what kind of post-feminist utopia I'd like to live in, I have to live in THIS world, and in this world, I will *always* be seen as a woman first and a person second. In this world, "biracial" children are always going to be seen as black first, regardless of whether or not you think that's right or fair. It's reality.

And yes, I know I'm a bitch, I know I'm relentless, and I know I'm a hardass. It's all part of my charm.

If someone was walking around with a group of other people hollering white pride sure enoguh I'd be running. But just b/c someone says they have pride in their culture which is a white one doesn't mean they are racist. What I think is racist is joining a racist group and doing harm on to others based on their race. What I think is racist is feeling you are superior to another. What I think is racist is hating someone b/c of the color of their skin or the racial(s) groups they belong too.

Well for one I don't find it useless. If I did I wouldn't call myself white, my husband black or my children black, or black and white. I would simply call us Americans that do not have a race. But personally I don't see anything with racial labeling as long as it's not done inaccurately or negatively.

If you read back a few pages you will see that I have talked to my daughter about the fact that people who do not know her will assume that she black, biracial (could be different mixtures), or Hispanic. I've also talked to her about how she may get treated meanly b/c she is part black. I'm not in any way shape or form raising my children to feel that being half white makes them better or treated any different from non mixed African Americans. I'm simply raising them to love ALL of who they are regardless of what others think about them.

 

[TreePixie]

What I think is racist is joining a racist group and doing harm on to others based on their race. .

Careful. Your privilege is showing.

 

[z]

I'm saying that the words "White Pride" ought to give you pause right there. More than pause, in this forum.

No one's suggesting that people cannot connect with both parts of their cultural heritage - you're addressing in me someone who was raised by a genealogist mother and is well aware of exactly *who* my ancestors were, and whence they came. What's being questioned here is why you insist on hanging a useless label on your children which has squat to do with how they will be viewed in THIS culture and THIS society, not the post-racial imaginary one you appear to want to live in.

I'm a realist. I'm also a feminist, living in a culture which still undervalues women. Regardless of what kind of post-feminist utopia I'd like to live in, I have to live in THIS world, and in this world, I will *always* be seen as a woman first and a person second. In this world, "biracial" children are always going to be seen as black first, regardless of whether or not you think that's right or fair. It's reality.

And yes, I know I'm a bitch, I know I'm relentless, and I know I'm a hardass. It's all part of my charm.

Repped, great post! The lady from the Rocky Mountains gets it!

Funny, a southern WW (Regina) insist on lecturing us about how blks should identify, this is the same south who came up with Octoroon, mulatto, quadroon, one drop and all that garbage, lmao.

 

[TreePixie]

I'm simply raising them to love ALL of who they are regardless of what others think about them.

No, you're hanging a label on them which isn't accurate in that they will not be viewed as "multicultural" or "biracial" they will be viewed as black, and they will share in the same racial struggles as anyone else who is viewed as black.

 

[ReginaStar]

Repped, great post! The lady from the Rocky Mountains gets it!

Funny, a southern WW (Regina) insist on lecturing us about how blks should identify, this is the same south who came up with Octoroon, mulatto, quadroon, one drop and all that garbage, lmao.

I'm pretty sure I said in a previous thread that I feel you should be allowed to identify however you choose.

 

[Tamstrong]

No, you're hanging a label on them which isn't accurate in that they will not be viewed as "multicultural" or "biracial" they will be viewed as black, and they will share in the same racial struggles as anyone else who is viewed as black.

Truth.

 

[TreePixie]

Repped, great post! The lady from the Rocky Mountains gets it!

Funny, a southern WW (Regina) insist on lecturing us about how blks should identify, this is the same south who came up with Octoroon, mulatto, quadroon, one drop and all that garbage, lmao.

Thank you. It seems so simple to this little white woman. The same ideas inform all kinds of bigotry, from gender to race to sexual identity and orientation. It's simply a matter of looking at the world as it is and trying to make it better while living in it as it exists now, rather than pretending everything is all rainbow-farting unicorns.

 

[z]

Thank you. It seems so simple to this little white woman. The same ideas inform all kinds of bigotry, from gender to race to sexual identity and orientation. It's simply a matter of looking at the world as it is and trying to make it better while living in it as it exists now, rather than pretending everything is all rainbow-farting unicorns.

Thank you. You should stick around, we need a woman who can tell it as is rather than sugarcoating. I know there are few ladies like that in this joint but we can use more, lol

 

[TreePixie]

Thank you. You should stick around, we need a woman who can tell it as is rather than sugarcoating. I know there are few ladies like that in this joint but we can use more, lol

I always tell it like I see it, DOA. I try to be polite where I can, and I'm almost always rational and logical, but I'm also pretty damned direct.

 

[ReginaStar]

No, you're hanging a label on them which isn't accurate in that they will not be viewed as "multicultural" or "biracial" they will be viewed as black, and they will share in the same racial struggles as anyone else who is viewed as black.

It is not inaccurate. What is inaccurate is to tell them they are monoracial black. Racial identity is how you choose to racial identify yourself to others it has absolutely nothing to do with how others identify you. If that was the case their would be no need to racial identify yourself. Wentworth Miller for example racially identifies himself as biracial black/white man. Most in society identify him as a white man. But that doesn't mean he should identity himself as white or it would accurate to do so. Walter White was another black man who had two black identified parents. He was thought to be whtie by whites. He had to tell them he was in fact a black man. He shouldn't identify as white just b/c others mistaked him for monoracial white that would not be accurate.

 

[z]

I always tell it like I see it, DOA. I try to be polite where I can, and I'm almost always rational and logical, but I'm also pretty damned direct.

rational, logical & direct.

will someone please buy this lady a drink? lol

 

[ktplay]

First, I agree with Yrma that's it's ironic to see a White person spending so much time attempting to explain why her definition of "race" is appropriate. I also find a lot of inconsistency in your position, but that's not the essence of my comment.

Acknowledging ethnicity is one thing, but to say that it's a "pride" thing suggests that there is an importance attached to races. The fact is the word pride implies superiority, which I find disturbing. This logically means that people should choose to define themselves by races out a sense of recognizing the "better" racial aspects of their background. Otherwise, what's the point in saying that it's about pride. I see no pride associated with race, only as a description that society chooses to impose on the person.

I believe that race has ABSOLUTELY NO INFLUENCE on who you are as person, unless you are a black person in America. Then, you are defined by your blackness, whether you are dope dealer or the President of the United States. For black Americans race can be a source of motivation because you understand how much you must overcome to have a measure of equality freely given to others by virtue of their race.

Both of my children are the products of two races, Black/Asian and Black/Spanish. I will always refer to my children as black as they have features that identify them with the Black race. It's much more important for me that they understand how they will be viewed by society and deal with those realities, in spite of any ethic description. For me, anything else is a disservice and creates a false sense that they might get "credit" for being part of another race. Of course they understand that their parents are of different races, but it's irrelevant. I care much more for their psychological well being and instilling in them the knowledge that they can't forget their blackness, because society certainly won't forget it.

In fact, arguably, people who choose to identify themselves as "bi-racial" could be subjected to more disdain, if part of the identification is with the White race. Many White Americans would find such associations to be offensive because they see something different. But, this is the state of racial politics in the United States today. So, I choose to be a realist.

absolute perfection