Obama's family struggled. I thought he mentioned being on foodstamps. Not sure
TRUMP Thread
- Thread starter Blacktiger2005
- Start date
Obama's family struggled. I thought he mentioned being on foodstamps. Not sure
archangel
Well-Known Member
Peach State Scholar
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Meanwhile Scott Walker's trying to destroy unions and collective bargaining rights up in Wisconsin, and he and other Republicans are fighting even something as simple as a minimum wage increase tooth and nail like it's the end of the world. But yeah, let's blame the Mexicans instead.
I think that Sanders benefits from having a much smaller pool of candidates to work through. Id'd much rather be in a field of four or five than a field of 14 or 15, that's for damn sure. As for Trump, he's going to have to decide if he'd rather return to the relatively safe world of reality TV where he gets to be the guy in charge and call the shots, or stay in politics where he will have every single syllable of every single sentence he utters dissected ten times a day. He ain't built for politics and I'm pretty sure that he knows that.
Obama didn't grow up dirt poor but his family wasn't rich by any means. When he lived with his grandparents in Kansas they weren't poor either but they sure as hell didn't have Bush or Romney money. It's much easier to relate to someone like Obama who grew up in modest surroundings compared to someone like Romney who grew up with literally every single advantage that a person could have in life. It really does make a difference in a person's outlook.
orejon4
Well-Known Member
In response to this post I would like to add that, with the exception of the skilled H1-B professional workers you discussed a day or so ago, illegal immigration and low-skilled immigration generally displaces unskilled labor of all races, but this does impact black unskilled workers primarily because a larger share of the black working class occupies the unskilled labor category.
Regarding the quote from Archman about labor benefits that our black ancestors fought for, I would like to remind him that NO benefit enjoyed by labor was given in response to black working class demands. Labor rights were only granted in response to white union demands, the same unions that have historically been even more hostile to the presence of black workers than these Mexican boogeymen everyone on the thread seems to be so focused on. Businesses in the US have never evinced concern over the needs of the black working class in their history until the recent interest in diversity/inclusion as part of global branding and marketing.
With regard to the claims that Mexicans deny legal and government access to us (since they seem to be the particular thrust of this thread rather than illegal immigration generally), those are things that many nations make conditional on citizenship where they do make them conditional. Some of these restrictions are by no means unique to Mexico, but are common in much of the developing world. They were not and are not, done exclusive "to" black people. Most developing countries bar foreign ownership, not because they don't like black people or any other foreigners, but precisely because they have colonial heritages and histories of having all of their land owned by imperialists and many of these denials of rights to non-citizens were put in place out of a concern for sovereignty. Several African nations have done the same thing, or attempted to reclaim land from white settlers and colonialists.
With regard to the repeated "Mexicans taking 'our slice of the pie'" trope, it appears a bit ahistoric. Black people were (and illegally continue to be, in many cases) denied access to many of the same programs that are supposedly part of our "slice". Witness the routine redlining that continues to exist, the denial of loans to black farmers, ongoing police repression, ongoing black exclusion from union leadership even when the union is majority black or people of color, the routine ignoring of black economic political and social interests by both parties, and on and on.
Many black conservatives (and I am NOT attempting to say what anyone here is or isn't) have been employed in the defense of these "American" norms, even when we are routinely oppressed in this country and denied access to many of them, except those that keep us in poverty and marginally members of the consumer class. If you are referring to Great Society programs, those were not designed to give us access to the benefits of labor organizations, but meager poverty alleviation measures taken to benefit both African-Americans and the rural white poor-who continue to be the majority of the recipients of public benefits, contrary to popular belief. Access to the rights won by organized labor from big business is a separate fight that black activists and organizers have waged against organized labor for inclusion that continues to be fought. If you doubt me, ask any member of the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists about our "access to that share of the pie".
Given our historic experience as African descendants in this nation, our historical vocation is to EXPAND access to justice for our race and all people, not to join nativists and racists in attempting to "raise the drawbridge" on Fortress America. If we fail to do so, once the drawbridge is raised, we will find ourselves behind the fortress walls, still denied equal access and begging for a dwindling number of table scraps. That is not a future I aspire to. Remember, any weapon we help the oppressor wield will ultimately be turned against us, for we have always been and will continue to be, the prey upon which the beast feeds. We should not be too quick to join in with the bully at the schoolyard beatdown, because once he's finished with that victim, who will he turn his aggression on next?
I do not support the violation of immigration laws, but I do recognize the true source of the oppression of black people in this nation and it is NOT Mexicans.
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Bliss
Well-Known Member
Romney is a nice man (l don't think Trump is, lol)...having said that both men grew up around men who made money. That's what they know, right. I don't hold success against people.
As Trump said, who do you want in negotiations with other fearless leaders...him or Hillary or Jeb.
Does a man or woman who struggled know how to make a country successful?
I'm not set in stone in my political opinions, but l don't detest successful businmen, l actually admire them. (plus l noght be biased having read 2 of Donald's books when l was 25. I still have them). He wasn't as cray cray with his mouth but he turned his businesses around from almost losing them.
Not sure yet if his business ethics would be incredible for us or horrible, btw...
Bliss
Well-Known Member
Orejon...
.l don't think you're understanding that our issues are with the policies our Govt and Governments have Implemented, whereby their citizens are encouraged to sneak into this country.
Do you honestly believe that we don't understand any individual's desire to come to a country that gives you everything for nothing, and you still get to send money home? Then on top, your Govt gives you the blueprint to execute that? I'm not surprised 20 million tried it. But they didn't come up with the idea. If our Government wanted to stem It, they would.
So it's less about the little man and more about demanding the securing of our borders, and vetting immigration, as has been done successfully in the past.
.l don't think you're understanding that our issues are with the policies our Govt and Governments have Implemented, whereby their citizens are encouraged to sneak into this country.
Do you honestly believe that we don't understand any individual's desire to come to a country that gives you everything for nothing, and you still get to send money home? Then on top, your Govt gives you the blueprint to execute that? I'm not surprised 20 million tried it. But they didn't come up with the idea. If our Government wanted to stem It, they would.
So it's less about the little man and more about demanding the securing of our borders, and vetting immigration, as has been done successfully in the past.
orejon4
Well-Known Member
I don't think these foreign governments actually implement plans to "show their people how to immigrate illegally". But do they benefit from remittances in dollars? Absolutely. Criminal organizations provide the infrastructure for them to enter, not governments. And I refuse to place primary blame on those governments. The primary culprit is the exploitative appetites of U.S. businesses. The programs that first stimulated the surges in immigration, legal and illegal, were corporate-driven. That includes the railroads during the 19th century, and California's agribusiness sector in the 20th.
That being said, there is - and I don't think anyone will deny this - a recurring theme on this thread of them vs. us, that has little to do with the dynamics of international economics and its impact on population flows and perpetuates a "they're coming to take our stuff" attitude that I find neither empirically based nor productive.
Do immigration laws need reforming? Absolutely. But I also believe that they should reflect global history and reality. The industrialized world's complaints about being under siege rings a bit hollow after 300-500 years of taking what they wanted from the rest of the world at the barrel of a gun and then retreating behind their walls with the "goodies" and complaining when the rest of the world wants in to share in the booty (no pun intended).
Bliss
Well-Known Member
How are the big bad companies you despise retreating, when you have said countless times in this thread that Corporatons are inviting them?
And seriously, they ARE coming to take our stuff, where have you been? and they are doing it by elbowing and shoving other applying immigrants to the side.
Archman
Well-Known Member
Hillary will eventually win the presidency because she will carry 43 % of White Americans, she will carry 97% of the homosexual vote, 96% of the Black American vote and at least 70% of the Hispanic vote, she will also carry 85% of the naturalized immigrants from India and 80% of new Muslim immigrants from the middle east and Africa........but Donald Trump mired in a large field of republicans is polling well because he taps into the emotion of the REMAINING Americans......those REMAINING Americans want an asshole-of a- president.....as asymmetrical in philosophy as possible from president Obama.....they like Trump because they feel he cannot be bought.....You cannot catch him in sexual scandal because he has the most beautiful wife...You cannot t entice him with bribe because he is worth 8 billion dollars....Finally, they love his loud, unapologetic and brazen mouth..... and they yearn for a leader with his nationalistic style........but he will not win because the aforementioned coalitions will out-number his supporters.......
orejon4
Well-Known Member
I am very much against illegal immigration, but I am also against the demonization of illegal immigrants. Under no circumstances should they push aside those who have followed the legal procedures. If anything, they should be required to wait even longer as part of the penalty for violating the law, or perhaps never given citizenship and punished by having to pay into taxation and social security schemes they will not benefit from.
As for the corporations, I didn't call them big bad companies. They are simply doing what they are organized to do. If you look a bit more closely, I said that the retreat behind walls is that of Western society generally (nations and multinationals), after building its wealth on the exploitation of the developing world's resources and people. The corporations are inviting illegal immigrants to exploit their labor, but corporations are not loyal to anyone beyond their shareholders, so their interests should not be given the status of a national priority by a nation's people.
When I think of who is taking OUR stuff, it is corporations in collusion with government, not illiterate agricultural workers, who are doing so. Taking OUR labor in exchange for substandard wages, beneath the actual value of the goods we produce. Taking OUR tax dollars in subsidies, TIF, tax exemptions and the like, while providing dubious benefit in terms of jobs and economic development. Taking OUR natural resources and giving us polluted air, land and water in return. Taking OUR democracy by rigging its rules in their favor and rendering it unresponsive to OUR wishes. And on and on...
I couldn't resist...
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archangel
Well-Known Member
Mark my words!!!
Trump won't even get out of the primary. The republican establishment coalition which basically runs the party will stop him as they have done in the previous elections.
flaminghetero
Well-Known Member
Illegal immigration hurts skilled workers as well as unskilled workers.
Illegals are weapons used by Management to destroy Labor.
flaminghetero
Well-Known Member
The destruction of the middle class is indeed heartbreaking.
flaminghetero
Well-Known Member
Evidently the pro illegal immigration advocates have another Country to flee to,once this one is turned into a Latino Bangladesh.
Maybe that's why they don't give a shit.
Peach State Scholar
Well-Known Member
Between Trump, Hillary, and Jeb I'll take Hillary first since she has way more foreign policy experience than Bush or Trump, then I'd take Bush second because he at least has some prior political experience as governor of Florida. Why wouldn't I take Trump? Here's a list of all the companies that have dumped him so far:
http://postonpolitics.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/07/09/these-companies-have-dumped-donald-trump/
How's he going to negotiate with ISIS? He can't even negotiate with Flo Rida. And I don't hold success against anyone but I think that when it comes to relating to the majority of Americans who aren't born into wealth and privilege, people from more modest backgrounds can empathize with the general public, which is an advantage.
When the emotions of a large percentage of Americans is xenophobia that's pretty easy to tap into. No real surprise there. And being an asshole doesn't make you a great negotiator. And how is going to say anything about negotiating with foreign countries when he can't even take care of his own businesses stateside? Plus, even if he were a great businessman the skillset required to succeed in business is worlds apart from the skillset required to succeed as president. The two have absolutely nothing in common. He can't look at Vladamir Putin and tell him "you're fired."
All of Trump's wives so far have been very attractive but since when has having an attractive wife kept a man from cheating? If someone is going to cheat, then they are going to cheat no matter what their partner looks like. Plus he's always had a roving eye; he is on his third marriage after all. Hell, he had an affair with Marla Maples while he was still married to Ivana!
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flaminghetero
Well-Known Member
You'd be surprised how racist and xenophobic mexicans are.
They ally themselves with the aryan brotherhood in prisons all over America.
Spanish culture is extremely anti-African/Black...better take that cotton sack off your head and look at the real world...while you still can.
Beasty
Well-Known Member
:smt043:smt043:smt043
Bliss
Well-Known Member
You might be right, lol....
*******
Louis Gutierrez, who is the senior House Democrat from Illinois and a Puerto Rican immigrant, spoke on the House floor just after 10:00 Wednesday morning, delivering a message especially to more than 5 million Hispanic U.S. residens who are eligible for citizenship today
The Democratic Congressman wants millions of people who hold U.S. green cards to become American citizens in order to send Donald Trump and other Republicans a message that they're 'mean and frankly, let’s be honest, racist."
"Every time you see Trump’s face on your TV, vow to learn a little more English or a few more history facts so you can take the [citizenship] test,' he said.
'Almost all of the immigrants in this country are going to remain in this country until the day they die, let’s be honest. So for the millions who meet the requirements of citizenship I say: take the step.' 'Let’s turn Trump’s negative words into something positive. That is how you deal with bullies and bigots"
'Latinos should do just what the Irish and the Polish and the Italians did. Become citizens and vote,' he said.
******
Add the 20 milion illegals who will receive amnesty and he's golden.
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Bliss
Well-Known Member
Some responses on Gutierrez speech..
Crown Heights Brooklyn, United States
i agree...... if you don't have the money to do it right now... they offer fee waiver ... you do NOT have to speak the english!... you can take the test in Spanish .. or whatever your language is... asi...que date PRISA ...y consigue ...tu CIUDADANIA!!!...]
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Chicago, United States
It must be nice to have fee waivers. My wife is in the final stages as she was recommended for approval of citizenship on Monday.
This has been a 12 year process, with a woman that has an MBA, 2 Masters, 3 Bachelors & a PMP Certification. She also speaks 11 languages & makes 6 figures a year.
The whole process has cost me nearly $40,000 in application & legal fees. Yet if she had no qualifications, spoke barely enough English to that she would need a translator she would have been approved years ago.
America...you are turning your back on the brightest & best, for the poor & down trodden. I really wish Luis what go back the hole he crawled out of in Humboldt Park (here in Chicago).
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Sanancisco, United States
Republicans are finished haha. You are history. A good thing too.
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United States,
Wow. Democrats planned this well. Trump sets it up, the media knocks it down. I assume we'll be hearing hourly about how many republicans support Trump and how many Latino/Hispanic figureheads and celebs are insulted by him and by extension, his supporters and the republican party. Meanwhile, Hillary is suddenly taking up the cause of border control in a much gentler and kinder way. That, ladies and gentlemen, is one cunn!ng way for the democrats to take the Hispanic vote and the swing state of Florida. I'm sure Trump has it in him to sabotage at least one other major swing state. Support Trump at your own peril.
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El Tejano, Deer Park TX, United States
I agree and feel the same way as Rep Gutierrez, when someone Trump attacks one of us, it is an attack on all Hispanics.
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Long Island, United States
I don't agree with you at all. My family came here legally from DR. I was born here. It took my Dominican half-sister 10 years of jumping through hoops to enter the country even though our father had lived here for 20. No one in my family is a murderer or a rapist or has killed people via drunk driving. Unfortunately, living on LI, I see many illegals in the news being apprehended for exactly those charges. People who break the law to get in this country don¿t respect the laws period. Just because we share a common language is not a reason to blindly support one another. Actually the Spanish spoken throughout the US and South America varies wildly. American Hispanics are not 1 monolithic culture. Some Hispanics are very religious and do not support leftist policies that some other American Hispanics do. Trump is standing for ALL American citizens. You can be an American of any ethnicity, but you have to be American first.
Crown Heights Brooklyn, United States
i agree...... if you don't have the money to do it right now... they offer fee waiver ... you do NOT have to speak the english!... you can take the test in Spanish .. or whatever your language is... asi...que date PRISA ...y consigue ...tu CIUDADANIA!!!...]
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Chicago, United States
It must be nice to have fee waivers. My wife is in the final stages as she was recommended for approval of citizenship on Monday.
This has been a 12 year process, with a woman that has an MBA, 2 Masters, 3 Bachelors & a PMP Certification. She also speaks 11 languages & makes 6 figures a year.
The whole process has cost me nearly $40,000 in application & legal fees. Yet if she had no qualifications, spoke barely enough English to that she would need a translator she would have been approved years ago.
America...you are turning your back on the brightest & best, for the poor & down trodden. I really wish Luis what go back the hole he crawled out of in Humboldt Park (here in Chicago).
-------:
Sanancisco, United States
Republicans are finished haha. You are history. A good thing too.
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United States,
Wow. Democrats planned this well. Trump sets it up, the media knocks it down. I assume we'll be hearing hourly about how many republicans support Trump and how many Latino/Hispanic figureheads and celebs are insulted by him and by extension, his supporters and the republican party. Meanwhile, Hillary is suddenly taking up the cause of border control in a much gentler and kinder way. That, ladies and gentlemen, is one cunn!ng way for the democrats to take the Hispanic vote and the swing state of Florida. I'm sure Trump has it in him to sabotage at least one other major swing state. Support Trump at your own peril.
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El Tejano, Deer Park TX, United States
I agree and feel the same way as Rep Gutierrez, when someone Trump attacks one of us, it is an attack on all Hispanics.
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Long Island, United States
I don't agree with you at all. My family came here legally from DR. I was born here. It took my Dominican half-sister 10 years of jumping through hoops to enter the country even though our father had lived here for 20. No one in my family is a murderer or a rapist or has killed people via drunk driving. Unfortunately, living on LI, I see many illegals in the news being apprehended for exactly those charges. People who break the law to get in this country don¿t respect the laws period. Just because we share a common language is not a reason to blindly support one another. Actually the Spanish spoken throughout the US and South America varies wildly. American Hispanics are not 1 monolithic culture. Some Hispanics are very religious and do not support leftist policies that some other American Hispanics do. Trump is standing for ALL American citizens. You can be an American of any ethnicity, but you have to be American first.