Islam and the Muslim

[ThePrince]

I pretty much agree with what BBW said and what MrFantastic(well with MF to an extent). BBW and I have similar beliefs and views. However he is more indepth and knowledgeable with religion, science, and debating than I am. From what I read, BBW was actually being nice and civil. Some people that have similar beliefs and views as us are more aggressive. Even they, I disagree with sometimes. As an agnostic atheist, I respect everyones right to belief as they choose, but I can still be critical at times. I think that atheists and religious people arguing is pointless. No side is going to agree with the the other. Sometimes it's better agree to disagree. I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not pro-religion either.

Also BBW, you were pretty much dominating people in this thread. lol

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Tell that to those muslims.

oh brother, i hope this is sarcasm.:roll:

 

[Morning Star]

It is true. While individuals such as Tammy and UnChosen actually act on their faith in good nature, I have to remind everyone that they are pretty much represent the minority populace of their beliefs. They're good people and while I tend to be more abrasive towards religion in particular, I still have utmost respect for them because they wear their faith in their hearts and not on their sleeves. Unfortunately, the ones who dominate, population and politically are the one who profess that they need to turn this country into more of a Christ-Centered (biased or favoring of one religion) nation through:

1. Establishing laws prohibiting rights from some people (women and gays).

2. Teach a philosophy in science classrooms (Intelligent Design and Creationism) and bastardize the very thing that helped advanced civilization.

And should they get their way (which they won't), they would probably tax non-Judeo Christian beliefs and while keep their own tax exempt. Sort of problematic on so many cases.

I pretty much agree with what BBW said and what MrFantastic(well with MF to an extent). BBW and I have similar beliefs and views. However he is more indepth and knowledgeable with religion, science, and debating than I am. From what I read, BBW was actually being nice and civil. Some people that have similar beliefs and views as us are more aggressive. Even they, I disagree with sometimes. As an agnostic atheist, I respect everyones right to belief as they choose, but I can still be critical at times. I think that atheists and religious people arguing is pointless. No side is going to agree with the the other. Sometimes it's better agree to disagree. I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not pro-religion either.

Also BBW, you were pretty much dominating people in this thread. lol

 

[OpenHeart]

Forgive Me For Feeling The Way I Do...

Why is Islam and it's followers the Muslims so disliked/hated?

Why? Because even though their book (the Quran) is a book of love and spiritual guidance, many of them use it as a battering ram and excuse for killing those who are different than they are...and those who do follow the teachings of Islam properly are mostly silent...rarely speaking out against the wrong of their terrorist brothers and sisters. When mass murders, suicide bombings, etc. take place, the good muslims need to publicly denounce the evil deeds of the extremist so that we know they are not in agreement with terrorism. They cry and whine about every damn thing while their extremist counterparts continue to kill women, children and their fathers in every major nation of the world. Their goal is world domination. I kid you not. Once you look at the whole picture and the track record then one should easily understand why many people (including myself) do not love and adore Islam.

So I end my post with a post by a person I never thought I'd agree with on anything...

Muslims don't speak out on the SLAVERY that is prevalent in muslim countries.

Yet they cry about the palestinians.

Look at the way workers are treated in Dubai and Saudi Arabia...ect ect...it's a LOT worse than the way Isreal treats the palestinians.

They treat people like shit..yet..they BITCH when they get a cockeyed glance.


Fuck em'...


-FlamingHetero

 

[FG]

Why? Because even though their book (the Quran) is a book of love and spiritual guidance, many of them use it as a battering ram and excuse for killing those who are different than they are...and those who do follow the teachings of Islam properly are mostly silent...rarely speaking out against the wrong of their terrorist brothers and sisters. When mass murders, suicide bombings, etc. take place, the good muslims need to publicly denounce the evil deeds of the extremist so that we know they are not in agreement with terrorism. They cry and whine about every damn thing while their extremist counterparts continue to kill women, children and their fathers in every major nation of the world. Their goal is world domination. I kid you not. Once you look at the whole picture and the track record then one should easily understand why many people (including myself) do not love and adore Islam.

So I end my post with a post by a person I never thought I'd agree with on anything...

To be fair - Christians have done just as bad in the past- sans the suicide bombings - but still - the inquisition was not dance on roses. When it comes to religion, there will always be fundamentalists that take things to another level. Christianity was just taken to teh 20th century with ease, that is not to be said w Islam.
It seems to me that fundamental Islam is way behind their times and hopefully, in time, this will change. If you look at demographics of Muslim countries - the vast majority are below 30 yoa and they mostly just want to live a life of freedom - eventually the old guard will die off and things will change - but it will take time. I see fundamental Islam and their leaders being the same as any other dictator - in the end whether you are Cheuchescu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Mussolini, its the same shit w a twist.
The fear, is based on the crazy fundamentalists, and unfortunately - it does not reflect what the majority of Muslims believe. Most of them are prisoners in their own country and have no right to express their beliefs sans they get tortured at best and I truly hope and pray it will change.

 

[flaminghetero]

To be fair - Christians have done just as bad in the past- sans the suicide bombings - but still - the inquisition was not dance on roses. When it comes to religion, there will always be fundamentalists that take things to another level. Christianity was just taken to teh 20th century with ease, that is not to be said w Islam.
It seems to me that fundamental Islam is way behind their times and hopefully, in time, this will change. If you look at demographics of Muslim countries - the vast majority are below 30 yoa and they mostly just want to live a life of freedom - eventually the old guard will die off and things will change - but it will take time. I see fundamental Islam and their leaders being the same as any other dictator - in the end whether you are Cheuchescu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Mussolini, its the same shit w a twist.
The fear, is based on the crazy fundamentalists, and unfortunately - it does not reflect what the majority of Muslims believe. Most of them are prisoners in their own country and have no right to express their beliefs sans they get tortured at best and I truly hope and pray it will change.

But the majority of the "good muslims" are quiet as roaches when it comes Darfur and other atrocities their brethren are resposible for.

That's what gets me about them.

They just don't critique their own...they even make excuses for their prophet marrying a 6 y/o CHILD.

You never hear them speak out against SLAVERY that is still practiced in the Saudi kingdom.

You never hear them speak out against having sex with little dancing boys...Bacha Bazi.

But soon as a Palestinian stubs his toe....all hell breaks out.

 

[flaminghetero]

Why? Because even though their book (the Quran) is a book of love and spiritual guidance, many of them use it as a battering ram and excuse for killing those who are different than they are...and those who do follow the teachings of Islam properly are mostly silent...rarely speaking out against the wrong of their terrorist brothers and sisters. When mass murders, suicide bombings, etc. take place, the good muslims need to publicly denounce the evil deeds of the extremist so that we know they are not in agreement with terrorism. They cry and whine about every damn thing while their extremist counterparts continue to kill women, children and their fathers in every major nation of the world. Their goal is world domination. I kid you not. Once you look at the whole picture and the track record then one should easily understand why many people (including myself) do not love and adore Islam.

So I end my post with a post by a person I never thought I'd agree with on anything...

:smt023:smt023:smt023

 

[flaminghetero]

oh brother, i hope this is sarcasm.:roll:

Nope...no sarcasm.

 

[Leksola]

Nope...no sarcasm.

He's not into sarcasm.

I think by "flaminghetero" he means his balls are on fire, which is why he's so grouchy all the time

 

[OpenHeart]

To be fair - Christians have done just as bad in the past- sans the suicide bombings - but still - the inquisition was not dance on roses. When it comes to religion, there will always be fundamentalists that take things to another level. Christianity was just taken to teh 20th century with ease, that is not to be said w Islam.

But the question was why is Islam hated/dislike. Thus, I gave you my answer concerning Islam. I am not going to change my feelings about Islam today based on what some other religion "use to do" in the past.

It seems to me that fundamental Islam is way behind their times and hopefully, in time, this will change. If you look at demographics of Muslim countries - the vast majority are below 30 yoa and they mostly just want to live a life of freedom - eventually the old guard will die off and things will change - but it will take time. I see fundamental Islam and their leaders being the same as any other dictator - in the end whether you are Cheuchescu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Mussolini, its the same shit w a twist.

I am glad to see that there is unrest with their leadership. I hope better leadeship arises out of this. The uprisings let me know that the people are getting tired and fed up with their dumb ass leaders.

The fear, is based on the crazy fundamentalists, and unfortunately - it does not reflect what the majority of Muslims believe. Most of them are prisoners in their own country and have no right to express their beliefs sans they get tortured at best and I truly hope and pray it will change.

It had better change, because the world is getting tired of their shit even some of their own people too. If they would stay their asses over there in their own countries then perhaps I would like they a drop better. But no, these idiots get on jet airplanes and fly to other countries and terrorize them. In view of this, what is there for me to love? In my book, Islamic terrorists are a bunch of paranoid controlling idiots who should be destroyed by the true followers of Islam. As I said in my first post, the Muslim people who properly follow the teachings of the Quran need to denounce the evil of their fellow berthren PUBLICLY so that nations will not ignorantly group them all together. Until they begin to do this, it will be unlikely that my feelings will change about them. Am I wrong for feeling this way? Maybe I am. But until I see a change...it is what it is.

 

[OpenHeart]

:smt023:smt023:smt023

LOL...it appears lightning struck twice in the same place.
BM Incarceration

I nearly felled out of my chair when I saw your reponse from yesterday over there a few minutes ago. If you keep a journal as I do, you had better write this down. Because for me to agree with you one a particular thing and then you to agree with me on a particular thing on TWO different threads within a 24 hour period is nothing short of a miracle.

 

[Darkseid]

the Muslim people who properly follow the teachings of the Quran need to denounce the evil of their fellow berthren

While I understand the sentiment in the statement above, the problem is that it implies that there is some "true Islam" that can refute the "false Islam". Like all other religions, Islam has many manifestations and interpretations - many of them diametrically opposed to one another. The Sunnis have many varying sects as do the Shia. This is not even to mention other sects such as Ismaelis, Qadianis and the Nation of Islam. So in short, most versions of Islam (and hence the Muslims that practice those versions) are mundane and not dangerous. However, there are a few versions of Islam that ARE dangerous and violent.

The most medieval form of Islam, known as salafiyya, is very Arab centric (see the links below). So much so that many of their medieval scholars held as a tenet of their faith that the Arabs were a superior race

http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/deviants-heretics/salafi-imam-arabs-master-race-3651#post18166

http://salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_TheDefinitionofanArab.pdf

Many Salafi Muslims currently hold such beliefs even today.

Now, none of this is to say that Muslims should be treated with contempt or not allowed to build mosques. Although I am not Muslim and do not care for their religion (in whatever form), I find the protests against Muslims building mosques to be reprehensible and silly.

Personally, I expect that American Muslims will continue to re-shape their religion (as others have) to fit their American situation and at some point become an example to their brethren overseas. Now can they do that while claiming to have the "true Islam"...time will tell

Oh, and for the record, I am an agnostic

 

[autorizationneeded]

While I understand the sentiment in the statement above, the problem is that it implies that there is some "true Islam" that can refute the "false Islam". Like all other religions, Islam has many manifestations and interpretations - many of them diametrically opposed to one another. The Sunnis have many varying sects as do the Shia. This is not even to mention other sects such as Ismaelis, Qadianis and the Nation of Islam. So in short, most versions of Islam (and hence the Muslims that practice those versions) are mundane and not dangerous. However, there are a few versions of Islam that ARE dangerous and violent.

The most medieval form of Islam, known as salafiyya, is very Arab centric (see the links below). So much so that many of their medieval scholars held as a tenet of their faith that the Arabs were a superior race

http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/deviants-heretics/salafi-imam-arabs-master-race-3651#post18166

http://salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_TheDefinitionofanArab.pdf

Many Salafi Muslims currently hold such beliefs even today.

Now, none of this is to say that Muslims should be treated with contempt or not allowed to build mosques. Although I am not Muslim and do not care for their religion (in whatever form), I find the protests against Muslims building mosques to be reprehensible and silly.

Personally, I expect that American Muslims will continue to re-shape their religion (as others have) to fit their American situation and at some point become an example to their brethren overseas. Now can they do that while claiming to have the "true Islam"...time will tell

Oh, and for the record, I am an agnostic

I agree that the protest against Muslim building is reprehensible--it is simply racist. I disagree, however, that Muslim must "re-shape their religion (as others have) to fit their American situation." As I understand, many religious groups in the U.S. are shaped by American politics and economy to keep the status quo, that is segregation, inequality, racism.... I hope you do not want other religions, to strengthen this base.

 

[Darkseid]

I agree that the protest against Muslim building is reprehensible--it is simply racist. I disagree, however, that Muslim must "re-shape their religion (as others have) to fit their American situation." As I understand, many religious groups in the U.S. are shaped by American politics and economy to keep the status quo, that is segregation, inequality, racism.... I hope you do not want other religions, to strengthen this base.

What I was saying had nothing to do with politics, economics or segregation or racism. Let me explain further what I meant by my statement. You certainly do not see (most) Muslims in this country practicing their version of Islam the same as those in a Muslim country. That is because they have shaped their religion to fit their own situations. They can not possibly expect to practice Islam as it is in Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

For example. I have visited mosques in Muslim countries as well as here in the US. Most mosques here in the US allow women to attend, and even have many Muslim women in the congregation that do not wear the hijab (headscarf). In addition, these mosques are in some ways like churches in having programs like boy scouts and Sunday schools. None of that is typically the case in Muslim countries. That is because Muslims in this country have looked at their own situations and adjusted. In addition, you will find that while Muslim women in the US dress more conservatively than the average non-Muslim woman, but when compared to most Muslim countries, US Muslim women dress more liberally than those in Muslim countries. I am also see them imitate Western style weddings here in the US.

Even their beliefs are changed and shaped by their being here in the US. For example, I often hear American Muslims say that Christians and Jews go to heaven, while Muslims in Muslim countries would never say such a thing. I know this from personal experience as I have spent a lot of time in Muslim countries and spoken to many Muslims about their varying belief systems.

And you will certainly find very few US Muslims that believe that Arabs are a superior race as is found in many traditional Islamic texts.

Some (albeit few) groups of Muslims have gone even further to even accept homosexuality. All of this is to point out that Muslims in the US will adapt to become more like non-Muslims, than like their religious brethren in majority Muslim countries...