Hollywood has lost it's way.

[BronzeSaint]

Since I spend the vast majority of my time in the Philadelphia area, I consider it my civic duty to go to a Will Smith movie as he is a native son of this region.

Well, I'm just back from watching Hancock and have to say the obvious: Hollywood producers and directors are on drugs.

I'm not talking about coke or crack or marijuana. I'M TALKING ABOUT HARD, BRAIN ALTERING DRUGS.

Amazingly, Hollywood took an actor as supremely talented as Will Smith, someone that can take a dull premise like that of I-Robot , and reduced him to a soap opera performer. Perhaps they wanted to give Will the greatest box office challenge of his life?

There is a lot of talk on here about how Hollywood is deathly afraid of portraying interracial relationships on the screen. What makes it very strange is that interracial couples probably make up 25 percent of all relationships in the Los Angeles area (perhaps more?). While I did not take my girlfriend to see this movie, there was another Black male-White female couple sitting just five seats away from me.

So, here is the really weird state of Hollywood today: Black-male/White female couples are EVERYWHERE. You see them in every part of the United States including the deep south (even in Mississippi). You can see this kind of pairing on reality shows (both as couples or men and women hooking up for a short time), in TV court-rooms, in TV programs where the real-life couple attempts to buy a house, or fix-up a house, or sell a house, etc, etc.

When you go to any place in the country (store, mall, play, baseball game), you have an excellent chance of seeing this pairing.

HERE IS THE BIG MONEY QUESTION FOR HOLLYWOOD: If Black-male/White-female couples are together very regularly in real life, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO SEE THEM ON A HOLLYWOOD MOVIE SCREEN???

People are further failing to look at the big picture in all of this: AMERICAN MOVIES SUCK. We have not had a "classic" in a very long time. It's tough to find a movie that smart people want to see.

When the most interesting upcoming movie is Batman, when so many people refuse to go to the theatre or have not been for months (or years), Hollywood can ill afford to lose money because of a weird fear of interracial romance (particularly when most of the country knows someone close to them involved in such a relationship).

They are cheating their own artistic craft! They are cheating movie goers (who exact revenge by not going to see movies). Incredibly, I have no movies to see that are made in America...and I love movies. THAT IS AMAZING!

In any craft, you have to use all of the talent available to you. If that talent turns out to be a Black-male/White-female romantic pairing, SO BE IT!

Britain learned this long ago. Why can't we?

I'm literally stuck watching foreign films.

It's one thing to be biased. It's a completely different thing to be biased and SUCK at the same time.

 

[satyricon]

I don't care so much about the portrayal of interracial relationships in film. Any expressions of black male sexuality is a huge threat to box office receipts though.

The idea that there are handsome black men in the world who know how to use their penises doesn't sit well with large portions of the American audience. The idea that there are white women who are attracted to handsome black men that know how to use their penises is even more unsettling.

I haven't seen Hancock and don't intend to, so I cannot comment on how it portrays the dynamic between Will and Charlize. You have to expect that a $100 million film is going to be marketed to the largest audience possible. Like any other industry, Hollywood is seeking to create a product that reaps as much revenue as possible. That means appealing to people who don't want to see a handsome black man having sex with a beautiful white woman.

 

[LaydeezmanCris]

I think we can all agree that Hollywood is fucked up from top to bottom.

 

[BronzeSaint]

Any expressions of black male sexuality is a huge threat to box office receipts though.

The idea that there are handsome black men in the world who know how to use their penises doesn't sit well with large portions of the American audience. The idea that there are white women who are attracted to handsome black men that know how to use their penises is even more unsettling.

Satyricon, this is an excuse that is used over and over again.

IF AMERICA WAS SO UPSET WITH BLACK MALE SEXUALITY, ENOUGH NOT TO GO SEE A MOVIE THAT CONTAINS IT, THEN HOW DID THE MOVIE SAVE THE LAST DANCE GARNER 105 MILLION DOLLARS IN PROFITS?

The cost of making Save The Last Dance was so cheap that a college program could have produced it. IT MADE MONEY; a LOT of money.

You have to expect that a $100 million film is going to be marketed to the largest audience possible. Like any other industry, Hollywood is seeking to create a product that reaps as much revenue as possible. That means appealing to people who don't want to see a handsome black man having sex with a beautiful white woman.

Excuse number two: The movie is going to be marketed worldwide. There is a great possibility that this movie will get more money from Europe than America (esp. because of our depressed economy).

Europe could care less about who is having sex with another. They want to see an interesting movie with the possibility of romance. This movie barely provides either.

I hear what you are saying. But movies like Save The Last Dance as well as European productions that are marketed in America (that contain Black-male/White-female sexuality) do very well here.

It's not the bottom line. It's Hollywood's issues of fear and loathing.

 

[satyricon]

The cost of making Save The Last Dance was so cheap that a college program could have produced it. IT MADE MONEY; a LOT of money.

There you go, a low-budget film that overachieved at the box office, not an expensive summertime blockbuster with millions of dollars to recoup. This underlines my point about $100 million dollar movies that studios have a lot riding on.

But movies like Save The Last Dance as well as European productions that are marketed in America (that contain Black-male/White-female sexuality) do very well here.

Well so far you've only mentioned one American film and none of these European films that supposedly do so well over here.

I'm not passionate about this issue, but do find it somewhat interesting from a sociological standpoint. If the studios want to tone down any potential romance between a black man and white women onscreen, it's their prerogative. They put the money into producing and promoting these films, so they can do whatever they want. You can also elect not to see them as well.

I won't be seeing Hancock, not because it may sanitize intercultural relationships, but that it doesn't seem like a good movie.

 

[hellspawn72]

The scary part about your assessment, Bronze, is that it's dead-on to what I've been noticing lately as well. Will was actually interviewed by The Insider or one of those Hollywood-favored report shows about "Hancock" in which he stated that the writers wanted to start from scratch and actually create a likable character in the end. I immediately changed the channel because that, in and of itself, is the whole problem with blacks and Hollywood.

I've been watching TV superheros and reading comics since I was a kid. Only here in America must we make ANY black hero likable with various restrictions. We don't do that with farm boy Clark Kent who becomes Superman, do we? Or attempt to lighten up Bruce Wayne and his millions in order for the audience to connect with a justice-fighting Batman, the dark knight (only a white hero can have that nickname, by the way). So of course Hancock was going to be nurse maided through in order to get the largest audience to watch it. I'll bet we can all imagine how many black writers contributed to that venture, can't we?

As for the IR issue, anyone could have called that Will and Charlize weren't going to be romantic. One, John Singleton once said in an interview that Hollywood is notorious for not wanting to be too overt in it's sexual material. And two of course is obvious in the bm/ww relationship that has been resisted since the beginning of time seemingly. You are correct though. IR relationships are everywhere. I watch primetime shows religiously and the only guys ever getting any are white guys. They don't even bring on black women for the brothas most of the time. Hell, they'll give a sista to a white dude FIRST! It's so pathetic that I have to watch Maury, Jerry Springer, or ANY of the court shows to see a brotha with a white chick. So, you're right. America knows already.

Ultimately, the real issue here is still Hollywood's overall impact on the American public, the world and it's own history. I was thinking about this just the other day. And think about this one. Ever since the mid to late 60s, exactly how many times has Hollywood had to put a legitimate IR couple on TV? Oh sure, they did it on the big screen a few times for the purpose of cultural advancement. But in general, we can all only come up with a handful of times where a black man and a white woman have been paired romantically and H-town has stuck with it. The audience just kept finding a way to complain about it because they knew how influential the pairing could be. That's why all the leading men in Hollywood are white or racially ambiguous. Because those white producers know there are white men at home who don't want to see that or want their daughters to believe that pairing is OK. It's no wonder with millions on the line during summer seasons that Hollywood doesn't push the issue, even though they have all the power to.

In the end, I'm convinced that this industry will not survive long-term because gone are the days of Ozzie and Harriet where people are married with 2.2 kids, a dog and a white picket fence. America is much more diverse now. But Hollywood won't get that message until it's too late and all of their audience abandons them.

 

[BronzeSaint]

The cost of making Save The Last Dance was so cheap that a college program could have produced it. IT MADE MONEY; a LOT of money.

There you go, a low-budget film that overachieved at the box office, not an expensive summertime blockbuster with millions of dollars to recoup. This underlines my point about $100 million dollar movies that studios have a lot riding on.

But movies like Save The Last Dance as well as European productions that are marketed in America (that contain Black-male/White-female sexuality) do very well here.

Well so far you've only mentioned one American film and none of these European films that supposedly do so well over here.

I'm not passionate about this issue, but do find it somewhat interesting from a sociological standpoint. If the studios want to tone down any potential romance between a black man and white women onscreen, it's their prerogative. They put the money into producing and promoting these films, so they can do whatever they want. You can also elect not to see them as well.

I won't be seeing Hancock, not because it may sanitize intercultural relationships, but that it doesn't seem like a good movie.

OK. Since it's too early in the morning to jog my memory of European movies (although there was one great BBC production that HBO quickly adopted as their own last year, a 5 part movie that showed a graphic BM/WW sex scene that would make the average American bedroom version look boring by comparison....sorry, cannot recall the name of it even though it was widely applauded by U.S. critics), I'll close with one domestic movie that we all know.

Spike Lee's Jungle Fever made 32 million dollars all the way back in 1991 (17 YEARS AGO). A lot of people went to see this movie. Lee's career did not suffer from this production at all. In fact, it propelled it.

The bottom line is that BM/WW movies, even if all you do is produce low budget versions of these films, can be E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y PROFITABLE if done correctly (as in Save The Last Dance, which was HUGE in terms of return on investment).

So, the excuse that these movies are too risky is one that should only be made inside a mental ward. I'm not aiming that accusation toward you. I am, however, directing it toward the Hollywood movie industry.

Let me be very clear: My frustration is greater than rarely seeing BM/WW pairings that may work well together. My anger is due to the very poor quality of movies being produced. When Batman is the best movie available, something is definitely wrong.

What is next? The Brady Bunch movie? Starsky and Hutch II? The Dukes of Hazard? Baretta? This is criminal--There is simply no other way to put it.

I don't know where you live. But, where I reside, I'm surrounded by folks from the UK. And they spend every waking moment reminding me of how pitiful our entertainment is, how racist some Americans are, how evangelical we are, how dumb our President is, etc, etc.

While I don't agree with everything they say, they are so right about what we produce in Hollywood.

Again, we need to get past "playing it safe" cause the product we are producing is too often pure garbage. It does not even have to be a romantic pairing (I'm dying for another Pelican Brief movie, PLEEAASSEE!!!)

For the love of the craft of moviemaking, we need to pair great actors that have not had a chance to work together and see what happens.

Arguably, the best American acting I saw last year came from the pairing of Terrence Howard with Jodie Foster. I just wish their roles could have gone a few steps further (we are being gypped, cheated, literally held up and robbed at the box office).

So that you understand: I have the next three uninterrupted days with my white girlfriend that I cohabitate with. Two doors down, there is another BM/WW couple about to do the same thing this weekend. I'm very thankful that BM/WW relationships are plentiful in real life. If they were as plentiful in movies and not so frequent in real life, I'd be very disappointed.

So, as much as I'm arguing for change in Hollywood, I WOULD NOT want it to be the other way around. Movies are fine. But, The REAL THING is 1000 times better!

There's likely three times as many BM/WW relationships (in real life) when compared to WM/BW relationships (if not greater).

But, from an artistic standpoint, our (American) movies suck. We should be trying everything.

 

[Tony Soprano]

I guarantee it that 10 years from now, ww/bm in major motion-pictures will become part of the norm. Although people will surely find something else to complain about. We are a critical society, we always have been and always will be.

As long as there are bloggers, pundits, and your typical entertainment industry prognosticators someone will ALWAYS have to put their ($0.02) into a topic. I'm surprised that "Black Snake Moan" was given a greenlight by a major studio.

No way that movie would've been made 10 or 15 years ago. I also saw some message boards around the time that movie came out, you can only imagine the level of anger, hatred and ignorance a lotta white men had from that film.

Progress isn't happening at the rate that we wish it to be, but it is slowly coming along.

 

[BronzeSaint]

The scary part about your assessment, Bronze, is that it's dead-on to what I've been noticing lately as well. Will was actually interviewed by The Insider or one of those Hollywood-favored report shows about "Hancock" in which he stated that the writers wanted to start from scratch and actually create a likable character in the end. I immediately changed the channel because that, in and of itself, is the whole problem with blacks and Hollywood.

I've been watching TV superheros and reading comics since I was a kid. Only here in America must we make ANY black hero likable with various restrictions. We don't do that with farm boy Clark Kent who becomes Superman, do we? Or attempt to lighten up Bruce Wayne and his millions in order for the audience to connect with a justice-fighting Batman, the dark knight (only a white hero can have that nickname, by the way). So of course Hancock was going to be nurse maided through in order to get the largest audience to watch it. I'll bet we can all imagine how many black writers contributed to that venture, can't we?

That's why all the leading men in Hollywood are white or racially ambiguous. Because those white producers know there are white men at home who don't want to see that or want their daughters to believe that pairing is OK. It's no wonder with millions on the line during summer seasons that Hollywood doesn't push the issue, even though they have all the power to.

Hellspawn, what Hollywood has failed to come to terms with is that white men are becoming 1/4 of the population. The largest population is white women. When combined with African-Americans, Hispanics and Asians, there is clearly a large enough populous with enormous buying power to make any movie a huge blockbuster. So, any anger from white men is as powerless as their role (or lack therof) in the success of Sex In The City.

Most men that I know will not come within 20 feet of a viewing of Sex In The City. Still, it's gross profits so far total about 100 million dollars (or more). So, it's a wild success without men supporting it.

Thanks for the compliment on my assessment.

As I was explaining to someone else, however, it is still much better to have a huge number of BM/WW relationships/hookups/marriages all around the world than to just have them in movies. I would not want things the other way around!

Still, as bad as our movies have been the past few years, it would be cool to see Cuba Gooding hook up with Nicole Kidman in a film someday.

Do you see how stupid this all is? Cuba Gooding is married to a white woman. Nicole Kidman had a very wild affair with an African-American rap musician and then followed it up by almost marrying Lenny Kravitz (Lenny has too many women to settle down).

So, in real life, even BM/WW actors and actresses are involved in IR (sometimes with each other as in the case of Taye Diggs and Idina Menzel) . But, not on the movie screen.....LMAO!!!!!

So, you can do it for real 24X7, but not act it out in a movie.

God help us!

 

[Soulthinker]

I won't hold my breath on Hollywood giving the green light on a IR project featuring a BM/WW. The best bet is to get the DVD's and VHS copies of IR movies foreign and domestic that lifts our expectations of what we want to see in a IR movie. I may had to bring back that thread or do another one. Also,we must use our imaginations on scene where the brothers holds back. Take Hancock for example,my fantasies are him picking up WW in the bars and making love like in My Super Ex Girlfriend.

 

[TheChosenOne]

We aren't going to see BM/WW in movies with any regularity until that pairing becomes more common.

Most movie execs aren't interested in showing BM/BW on film despite the fact that more than 90% of blacks marry inside their race.....in other words...what motivation do they have to show BM/WW onscreen...when there is a much larger audience for BM/BW and they are making $$$ despite not showing many positive BM/BW onscreen relationships. There is no one to push the movie people to show IR.

A lot of WW (the ones NOT involved with BM) may not have anything against IR but I doubt very seriously they are going to get out in the streets and protest the lack of BM/WW onscreen. It doesn't affect them nor does it impact most of the women they know. Conversely most brothas (the ones NOT involved with WW) are not going to go out of their way to pressure the movie big-wigs for fear of not looking "pro-black."


It does seem that we always cater to the most prejudiced and backwards thinking groups in our society. Progressive minded individuals always have to slow down and hold the old-way thinkers by the hand ...and guide them towards the future.....slowly and painfully.

Yes...IR has grown...and yes...Hollyweird is racist and biased...no question....they are looking to protect the egos of sensitive white men (and to a lesser extent black women and some white women and black men). However....Hollywood is all about making $$$...I'm certain that if there was a larger market for IR....meaning more IR couples...they'd probably acquiesce....but as I said before.....it will happen slowly and painfully. :idea: