combat roles to women?

[pettyofficerj]

Telling me to shut up? Woman you have your mouth on so many dicks right now, I don't think you can think straight.

You're going to believe the ACLU over the head of the fucking military? The standard for general soldiers is different than combat positions. I don't think a woman needs to be able to do 40 pushups to be a translator, but if she's going on a mission for a month, she needs extra skills. Just like most women won't make it into the SEALS, most women won't make it into these front line combat positions, just as some men won't. But, if they CAN then there is no reason under the sun that they shouldn't be able to apply for these positions. They have until 2016 to figure out all out. They figured out integration, too, giving women the right to vote, and allowing black men in the military years ago, despite the bullshit rhetoric that people tried to throw out.

there are male translators too...a shitload of them

do you think they should be scaled down to 17 pushups so they can have an easier time making the cut too?

:shock:

 

[TheHuntress]

but you never expressed interest in eliminating gender norming for basic/rotc/academies

that's part of what was being discussed here..or maybe u have..too many damn pages to read

why aren't women being held accountable in that sense? where's panetta screaming from the top of the mountain that gender discrimination like that is wrong, and should be changed. if you want to open another door, you gotta close the one behind you, right?

irregardless of what position a woman may be going for, a standard is a standard. lots of men can't meet it, but lots can just like there are women that can meet the same male requirements.

but...because lots of women can't meet the minimum, the standard of practice since god invented the pushup...another standard was formulated and women happily took advantage of it

Did you catch what I said earlier about equality and how it does not mean same? Equality is the opportunity to do things. Maybe a woman can't be a Ranger, but she can do something else in the military...as we have seen...so she does what she can. There's no reason to exclude her completely because her physiology is different. The same for police officers. I have seen tiny women who could lay out a big dude because they trained for it. Same with female fire fighters. If you train for things, you can be ready for them. Maybe you can't haul 100# of gear, but you stress able to pull someone to safety, since anyone who knows anything about weight knows that 100# of different items are different levels of difficulty.

I don't have a problem with gender norming where it allows women in the door to demonstrate their skills. But I would argue that she keep up with physical requirements for the SWAT team, too...it's a specialized area.

 

[Bliss]

Alright people, I am going to give you examples of things that I have seen with my own eyes.

But first, lets look at situations where both gender are at their peak physical shape. Lets look at the WNBA, the women's professional basketball league vs. the NBA, the men's basketball league.

Both genders who play this sport professionally are in top physical shape. But if you were to get the best female player like a Candice Parker or Lisa Leslie do you think they could go up against a Lebron James or a Koby Bryant??? There is a reason why they have separate leagues.

MMA or UFC cage fighting. Name any female, anywhere who would even come close to winning a match against a guy who is not only physically strong but is mentally sharp in fighting. A guy who knows different submission positions and can fight you standing or on the ground. A guy who while even back pedaling can hit his opponent and knock him out.

Football, a sport that I played at the college level. One thing that you notice that a guy can develope that a women can't is BRUT strenght. A 5'9" guy can spend hours in the weight room to build his strenght. On the football field, a 6'5", 250 lb lineman stands in his way to stop him. That 5'9" guy will pick that lineman up off the ground and start carrying him in the end zone with him. That BRUT force, no matter how many hours a women spends in the weight room, she never develops that.

Thinking that pointing a gun at someone and shooting at them is combat is very naive. Even if you get into a fire fight you have to remember your opponent is shooting back. I don't care how great of a shot you are in target practice, things are very different when a person is shooting at you and the bullets come so close to your head you hear it whiz by you and hit the tree or building behind you ... zip.. zip (ping)... zip,zip (spat).

Combat is a VERY, VERY humbling experience for anyone, male or female. The vast majority of females in the military wants nothing to do with combat. They don't mind being in the support units but the front lines .... NO !!! Even the real butch women change their minds when they get a dose of reality.
....

Thank YOU for your EXPERT viewpoint!

You are not going to find weekend warriors on the battle field.

In war, there are no second places, you win or die ... period.
..

But we seem to have e-warrior posters...who DGAF at the bolded part.

Your post is so wrong on so many levels, it is very obvious you have NEVER served in the military.

I am refering to "combatants" for one thing, guys who do fight on the front lines. You have many people who are in "support" units and NEVER see combat.

If we are to continue to have this debate, lets limit it to the "combatants", those who fight. Lets not bring in the "support" units like the cooks, supply clerks, etc. No, they don't have to meet a physical standard.

Another thing, lets not bring in our opinions to this debate. We are from now on going to make statements based on facts.

Your comment about the U.S. not facing "elite" forces since WW2 makes no sense. Didn't the VietCong over run Saigon in 1975 and forced the Americans to leave?? So with all the "extensive training that the U.S. forces receive" those "irregular enemy combatants" STILL kicked the Americans out of Vietnam???

Didn't Russia invade Afghanistan in 1980??? Russia, who at that time was the second strongest country in the world. Yet, eight years later "those former shopkeepers or goat farmers" defeated Russia and kicked them out of their country??? The ones that you stated whose basic training was "how to load an AK47, point and shoot" ?????

You see why I am having such a hard time with your post??? Come back with some intelligent information and we can debate otherwise stop wasting my time.

Great post!

I must be out of my mind. I have no real reason as to why I still answer your posts. AGAIN, another post that is so flawed I don't know where to begin to answer it.

There is a movie called CHARLIE'S WAR or something like that. It has Tom Hanks as the main character. There was this female socialite who felt sorry for the Afghan rebels who were fighting the Russian's. She looked at them as serious underdogs in that war.

She befriended a Congressman from Texas, Charlie Wilson. She wanted him to do something to help the Afghan rebels. Charlie was the one who supplied them with stinger missiles. The Russians were losing the war. They had lost on every front except in the air where they had attack helicopters that the Afghans had no defense against.

Once Charlie gave them the stinger missiles and they started shooting down Russian helicopters, that's when they packed up everything and left. This was near the end of the war, the Russians was losing except for superior air power.

Stormin' Norman Schwartzkoff, who led the American troops to victory in Desert Storm in 1991, stated repeatedly that you can only win a war with the foot soldier. Superior "weapons and tactics" is NOT the bedrock of modern warfare. Even with America using unmanned drones those still are turning out not to be as effective as having boots on the ground.

In the New York Times, they wrote an article of how the decision was made to use special forces to kill Osama Bin Laden. Vice president Joe Biden and some of the others voted to use the drone to bomb the suspected hide out. They figured this would save American lives by not putting any soldiers in harms way. Obama voted against it. Him and General Mckay put together a plan to send in elite forces. They wanted to make SURE they got Bin Laden.

The Seal Team that went in to get Bin Laden even had camcorders mounted on their helmets. Obama and his executive staff were in Washington DC and was able to watch the assault LIVE on TV as it was happening way on the other side of the world.

Even with "weapons and tactics" like that, it was the boots on the ground that made all of that happen.

AGAIN, I'm having a hard time understanding your post.

TY for schooling the misinformed. A Temple Prof in gender roles in the military said the military did a comprehensive report...and that its a Govt official making the quota-inequality decision, that no way in hell are the Generals in the field who know better agreeing to this.

 

[TheHuntress]

there are male translators too...a shitload of them

do you think they should be scaled down to 17 pushups so they can have an easier time making the cut too?

:shock:

Yes. And physiologically speaking, 17 pushups are the strength equivalent of a mans 40 for most women. From what I understand, it's not an arbitrary number. So again equality dies not mean "same".

 

[pettyofficerj]

Did you catch what I said earlier about equality and how it does not mean same? Equality is the opportunity to do things. Maybe a woman can't be a Ranger, but she can do something else in the military...as we have seen...so she does what she can. There's no reason to exclude her completely because her physiology is different. The same for police officers. I have seen tiny women who could lay out a big dude because they trained for it. Same with female fire fighters. If you train for things, you can be ready for them. Maybe you can't haul 100# of gear, but you stress able to pull someone to safety, since anyone who knows anything about weight knows that 100# of different items are different levels of difficulty.

I don't have a problem with gender norming where it allows women in the door to demonstrate their skills. But I would argue that she keep up with physical requirements for the SWAT team, too...it's a specialized area.

i thought 'equality' was equality...but shit...what do i know

fuck PT requirements as long as she gets a chance to do a job

that's pretty much what the military said when they created that absolutely ridiculous PT standard for women while keeping men studs:smt102

 

[Bliss]

Huntress -

Your vile disgusting vile insult has been reported. Only you resort to gender based vulgarity when you are being creamed in a debate.

As to the rest of your nonsense post, the ACLU are the ones who filed suit. How do you think it came to be that standards were lowered for women?

Look at all your phoney excuses. "A woman doesn't have to do 40 push-ups' to do this to be this", blah blah blah Everything is "dont need to be, don't have to be" when it suits you. Well why the hell even have training to translate then? Where is your squawking for the men who want to be translators?

Don't you dare equate the discrimination towards Blacks to your pseudo military gender equality, that isn't really. The racism they encountered was because they were Black! No other reason. Not one BLACK EVER asked for special treatment, never got it and PROVED like hell they were equal as any other office. Not one.

 

[pettyofficerj]

Huntress -

Your vile disgusting vile insult has been reported. Only you resort to gender based vulgarity when you are being creamed in a debate.

As to the rest of your nonsense post, the ACLU are the ones who filed suit. How do you think it came to be that standards were lowered for women?

Look at all your phoney excuses. "A woman doesn't have to do 40 push-ups' to do this to be this", blah blah blah Everything is "dont need to be, don't have to be" when it suits you. Well why the hell even have training to translate then? Where is your squawking for the men who want to be translators?

Don't you dare equate the discrimination towards Blacks to your pseudo military gender equality, that isn't really. The racism they encountered was because they were Black! No other reason. Not one BLACK EVER asked for special treatment, never got it and PROVED like hell they were equal as any other office. Not one.

fuck that

you know negroes have poor night vision

or so that's what they used to tell us to keep us out
:smt081

 

[pettyofficerj]

and it's not just about the pushups either.....

that timed mile y'all got is funky

i could do that with a blunt in one hand and bottle of Yak in the other, blindfolded in a wheelchair on a 45 degree incline

who needs pacing in the military anyway

not like id have to go somewhere by foot in a certain time-frame

how dare they...

 

[Bliss]

I'm against that. It should be based on ability, period. Equality of opportunity to compete, but not mandated equality of outcomes.

While top Military Brass agree, the non-military have now forced them to to see it differently. FAIR is the key word they want used. Unfortunately, fair is not equal. Yay for psuedo-equality so we can feel good about ourselves. Meanwhile Army Ranger tells it like it is.

 

[pettyofficerj]

While top Military Brass agree, the non-military have now forced them to to see it differently. FAIR is the key word they want used. Unfortunately, fair is not equal. Yay for psuedo-equality so we can feel good about ourselves. Meanwhile Army Ranger tells it like it is.

what else is new

i wish i coulda seen the looks on their faces when the female PT went live

i know they were like 'what the phuck, are you serious?'



if it's safe enough to have shit lowered like that..especially that run, it's safe enough to lower that mothafucka for everyone

 

[The Dark King]

I do. I love history, it's my thing on the side, but I am super passionate about workplace psychology, training, employee motivation, and cultural consonance. I kind of fell into this stuff when I started my MS in training and performance improvement and never looked back. Ten years ago, had you told me I'd be doing this, I'd have looked at you like you had 3000 heads. lol

And yes, limits and ceiling can be broken, or at least cracked. But I can also tell you that they still exist. I sat in my colloquium last summer where the professor in charge of trying to help us insulted me in front of the group and make a comment about silly women coming from an education background who think they can 'hack it' in the field of psychology, implying it is for men only. I reported him to the staff, as did a few other ladies at my table who were equally as appalled as I was.

And this was 2012, right? You'd think.



I don't, but I do think a big part of why the forum has gone downhill is because the men vs women thing continues to get carried on too far when people could stop and say 'look, all bullshit aside, so and so has a point..... and now back to my regularly scheduled asshatery' lol To be honest, I think that's why most of us get so frustrated, and I know that's why quite a few people I've spoken to have left...or at least it was a chunk of their gripe with this place.

I don't think a lot of this is men vs women I think a lot of it simply gets turned into that because some men don't just simply agree. Like the gun debate situation, the only reason I didn't get my regular regiment of neg reps and women bashing accusation is because Book and Bliss stood so strong on the same position as I did. I will admit to crossing the line sometimes, but a lot of the women on this forum really hate being disagreed with and too many men kiss their ass. Not saying that the vast majority don't make valid points and have earned our respect but its unfortunate that we just can't simply disagree and present our points and move on. I've always asserted those who are easily offended just stick to the fluff subjects like interracial couples and porn threads and all be well but if you enter into something controversial expect that someone will disagree with you

 

[pettyofficerj]

I don't think a lot of this is men vs women I think a lot of it simply gets turned into that because some men don't just simply agree. Like the gun debate situation, the only reason I didn't get my regular regiment of neg reps and women bashing accusation is because Book and Bliss stood so strong on the same position as I did. I will admit to crossing the line sometimes, but a lot of the women on this forum really hate being disagreed with and too many men kiss their ass. Not saying that the vast majority don't make valid points and have earned our respect but its unfortunate that we just can't simply disagree and present our points and move on. I've always asserted those who are easily offended just stick to the fluff subjects like interracial couples and porn threads and all be well but if you enter into something controversial expect that someone will disagree with you

fool.....you might be fit for military duty after all if you get up on that female PT shit

:mrgreen:

 

[Bliss]

and it's not just about the pushups either.....

that timed mile y'all got is funky

i could do that with a blunt in one hand and bottle of Yak in the other, blindfolded in a wheelchair on a 45 degree incline

who needs pacing in the military anyway

not like id have to go somewhere by foot in a certain time-frame

how dare they...

Shhh, we got it good. Don't tell no one. Frankly, I'm insulted. They are telling us we aren't as good physically. Because we proved to them we aren't.

I know it sucks, it hurts, but I'd never want to risk the lives of Americans or those in the world we protect because I want everyone to pretend I am better than I am not. WTH is this, The (female) Truman Show? Where everyone is in on the joke but us women?

 

[The Dark King]

fool.....you might be fit for military duty after all if you get up on that female PT shit

:mrgreen:

I can do the 40 push ups no problem but running the mile? To quote biggie "I'm too fat I might catch an asthma attack" lol

In Huntress's defense the original argument is that women are now being allowed to apply for more combat positions and aren't being kept out based on gender as they should. Honestly I wasn't aware they were ever kept away from trying because of gender I would have wagered it had more to do with the PT requirements like you said. Let them try I just hope we don't hear complaints about why more women aren't represented in infantry afterwards. I don't know why acknowledging physical difference is so bad when you are talking about a physical job. Its like saying there are no point guards in the nba under 5'10 so they should lower the rims to accomidate the shorter players because they can dribble the ball up the court just as fast as the taller players. Sounds ridiculous right?

 

[pettyofficerj]

Shhh, we got it good. Don't tell no one. Frankly, I'm insulted. They are telling us we aren't as good physically. Because we proved to them we aren't.

I know it sucks, it hurts, but I'd never want to risk the lives of Americans or those in the world we protect because I want everyone to pretend I am better than I am not. WTH is this, The (female) Truman Show? Where everyone is in on the joke but us women?

it's not your fault

just do your bent-knee pushups and be happy

:mrgreen:

 

[pettyofficerj]

I can do the 40 push ups no problem but running the mile? To quote biggie "I'm too fat I might catch an asthma attack" lol

In Huntress's defense the original argument is that women are now being allowed to apply for more combat positions and aren't being kept out based on gender as they should. Honestly I wasn't aware they were ever kept away from trying because of gender I would have wagered it had more to do with the PT requirements like you said. Let them try I just hope we don't hear complaints about why more women aren't represented in infantry afterwards. I don't know why acknowledging physical difference is so bad when you are talking about a physical job. Its like saying there are no point guards in the nba under 5'10 so they should lower the rims to accomidate the shorter players because they can dribble the ball up the court just as fast as the taller players. Sounds ridiculous right?

you done did it now....

 

[The Dark King]

you done did it now....

i meant shouldn't my bad lol

 

[pettyofficerj]

I can do the 40 push ups no problem but running the mile? To quote biggie "I'm too fat I might catch an asthma attack" lol

In Huntress's defense the original argument is that women are now being allowed to apply for more combat positions and aren't being kept out based on gender as they should. Honestly I wasn't aware they were ever kept away from trying because of gender I would have wagered it had more to do with the PT requirements like you said. Let them try I just hope we don't hear complaints about why more women aren't represented in infantry afterwards. I don't know why acknowledging physical difference is so bad when you are talking about a physical job. Its like saying there are no point guards in the nba under 5'10 so they should lower the rims to accomidate the shorter players because they can dribble the ball up the court just as fast as the taller players. Sounds ridiculous right?

im too lazy to address multiple issues in on post..so im going to take a page out of goodlove's book and get sillier than a mothafucka

..quoting the same shit over and over every time he gets a new thought

:smt033

anyway

from what i understand, women just want the chance to be in a combat MOS, because combat unit leaders tend to move up that career chain with more ease. being a decorated combat vet, whose spent time leading direct-action operations, patrols, recon ops and shit like that, makes people's dicks hard and helps you get those promotions. plus you got all the cool movies like Saving Private Ryan and Blackhawk down..so people will make movies about you now, where the female infantryman is the hero:rock:


like i said before...hollow victory

the door is open...and the marines already lost their only female candidates for their infantry officer's course

on one hand it's like..oh great..another exciting opportunity

on the other hand it's like...oh damn...shit i'm still a woman and the odds of me passing are still shit unless they gender norm

 

[Bliss]

it's not your fault

just do your bent-knee pushups and be happy

:mrgreen:

LMAO. Even my karate school when I was a kid had those push-ups for us and the regular one for guys.
I was sooo frriggin happy. :smt036

 

[The Dark King]

LMAO. Even my karate school when I was a kid had those push-ups for us and the regular one for guys.
I was sooo frriggin happy. :smt036

Why would they do that? We're all the same lol. I think that's an outdated practice though. I did krav maga for a few months and women were doing the same conditioning exercise as the guys. Only thing I hated was the sparring with women. One of the main reasons why I stopped going. Its good for the women to spar with men but the men get nothing out of it unless she's an elite fighter and for 250 bucks a month it sure wasn't worth it.