3 San Jose State students charged with hate crime against black roommate

[Ol'Skool Classic]

And doubt any of you have a kid in college dorming somewhere so I doubt you have any experience with this kind of shit.
And again I agree he could have done things differently but I don't think his lack of action requires that people criticize him for it. He could have been really scared.

Shit like that should have never made it to a college dorm level. And what the hell could he have been scared of? Getting his ass possibly beaten? Labeled as a snitch? So allowing others to harass & torment you to the point that it's preferable to allow your self esteem to hit a low that you would possibly contemplate suicide to end the harassment or even allow things to escalate to a point where your tormentors themselves are willing to orchestrate some scenario to take your life just for the fuck of it if they could is acceptable to getting beaten up or labeled as a snitch? Really???

 

[The Dark King]

Shit like that should have never made it to a college dorm level. And what the hell could he have been scared of? Getting his ass possibly beaten? Labeled as a snitch? So allowing others to harass & torment you to the point that it's preferable to allow your self esteem to hit a low that you would possibly contemplate suicide to end the harassment or even allow things to escalate to a point where your tormentors themselves are willing to orchestrate some scenario to take your life just for the fuck of it if they could is acceptable to getting beaten up or labeled as a snitch? Really???

You can not be this dense. I refuse to believe that you are. What the fuck was he "allowing"? He tried to fight back watch the video read the article. Its fucking insane, literally pure insanity that there is so much discussion what the victim should have done. Barely anything being said about how vile and disgusting these other kids were. Those who harassed him and those who sat by and did nothing should be the focus but instead it's why did he "allow" himself to be bullied.

 

[The Dark King]

I agree most rapes are committed by people we know, but preemptive steps aren't usually possible. Rape is not comparable to bullying, no matter how you try to spin it. I wasn't alone with the man who raped me, there were probably 15 other people there, any of whom could've stopped what was happening but they chose to mind their own business (maybe now you can better understand why I am the way I am about helping a stranger in trouble). There weren't "red flags" in his behavior to warn me of his temper. There's not a damn thing I could've done to stop him from doing what he was set to do, love. Bullying starts small and escalates, rape usually hits you like a ton of bricks. I'm assuming you've not been through it, so I don't expect you to understand. I don't know how else to get the point across to you that dealing with a bully in the early stages and dealing with a rapist are two completely different animals.

Do you actually believe the second point you made? How can women avoid being alone with men they don't know? Half the time in elevators or stairwells I'm stuck in a confined space with men I don't know. I refuse to walk around in fear. I'm always cognizant of my surroundings, but I won't shelter myself trying to keep from being raped. Women deserve better than that.



I hope my kids never end up in a similar situation also. God forbid they do, I hope they have the confidence and self respect to immediately put their foot down and attempt to stop the bully in his/her tracks. If that doesn't work, you're damn right I'll be all over it and you can trust that heads will roll.

We can't protect our kids from everything TDK. My job as their mother is to teach them to protect themselves.

Truly sorry about the rape thing, I seriously don't get how people could mind there business in a situation like that.
It's interesting that you always seem to apply the people should jump in mindset when its a girl (the chick in the store, chick at the football game) but here its been more of a focus on what the victim should have done.
I am having a hard time following your logic unless its easier to see yourself in those women and not in this kid.

 

[andreboba]

You can not be this dense. I refuse to believe that you are. What the fuck was he "allowing"? He tried to fight back watch the video read the article. Its fucking insane, literally pure insanity that there is so much discussion what the victim should have done. Barely anything being said about how vile and disgusting these other kids were. Those who harassed him and those who sat by and did nothing should be the focus but instead it's why did he "allow" himself to be bullied.

I think what you're unintentionally missing is that this happened in a college dorm suite.
Not at a bar full a drunk idiots or on a street corner in the 'hood.

Getting punked in your dorm and allowing it is about on par with getting punked in your own home by your little brother. That just shouldn't happen.

I'm only saying what I would tell the kid to do if he'd ever come to me about this problem, and I probably would have said document what happened, tell your floor RA and then go see the head of your dorm.

Don't just take it.

Being truthful, if this kid had screamed and cussed his lungs out the first time these guys crossed the line, IMO it would have been over.

 

[The Dark King]

I think what you're unintentionally missing is that this happened in a college dorm suite.
Not at a bar full a drunk idiots or on a street corner in the 'hood.

Getting punked in your dorm and allowing it is about on par with getting punked in your own home by your little brother. That just shouldn't happen.

I'm only saying what I would tell the kid to do if he'd ever come to me about this problem, and I probably would have said document what happened, tell your floor RA and then go see the head of your dorm.

Don't just take it.

Being truthful, if this kid had screamed and cussed his lungs out the first time these guys crossed the line, IMO it would have been over.

Possibly. I went to an all male private school and bullying was just a way of life. Teachers rarely if ever intervened so the kids usually solved and I have seen many of dudes try and "stand up" to people and just get knocked the fuck out. Bullies pick on the weak for a reason, they're less likely to fight back and if they do they're easy to beat up.

 

[andreboba]

Possibly. I went to an all male private school and bullying was just a way of life. Teachers rarely if ever intervened so the kids usually solved and I have seen many of dudes try and "stand up" to people and just get knocked the fuck out. Bullies pick on the weak for a reason, they're less likely to fight back and if they do they're easy to beat up.

You know that never happens is college.lol

That's the real difference for me.

It would be like if I heard of this happening to a guy who worked for a consulting firm. Or someone who works at a hospital. Some things don't really go down that way in more formal, responsible settings.

You had bullies in HS at an all male private school who beat up other students?? And it was tolerated?? A school where kid's parents are paying directly out the pocket for their kid's to attend??

That's unbelievable to me.

 

[Beasty]

Possibly. I went to an all male private school and bullying was just a way of life. Teachers rarely if ever intervened so the kids usually solved and I have seen many of dudes try and "stand up" to people and just get knocked the fuck out. Bullies pick on the weak for a reason, they're less likely to fight back and if they do they're easy to beat up.

Because most people don't really want a real fight in which their opponent is somewhat skilled and confident. They only want to dominate if anything. Bullies can sense fear and that is what they feed on. That is why assertiveness works, if you are truly unafraid. Once a person realizes anyone can be beat if you hit them right then they will fear no one. This lack of fear alone will repel most bullies and thus suppress the need for a fight.

Funny that I actually got tested when I was in a club in Seattle about 4 months ago. I rarely get tested anymore. This dude was just another dummy with an ego problem. I squashed that shit and kept dancing.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

You can not be this dense. I refuse to believe that you are. What the fuck was he "allowing"? He tried to fight back watch the video read the article. Its fucking insane, literally pure insanity that there is so much discussion what the victim should have done. Barely anything being said about how vile and disgusting these other kids were. Those who harassed him and those who sat by and did nothing should be the focus but instead it's why did he "allow" himself to be bullied.

No, I'm not dense. I'm just someone who grew up having to deal with grown ass racist like this, never mind their ignorant offspring, on a regular basis so it's hard for me to digest that in the year 2013 how a black male in college of all places remains in a situation to escalate to the point that it got to. Especially when there were people who stood by and did nothing to bring the situation to light.

I think what you're unintentionally missing is that this happened in a college dorm suite.
Not at a bar full a drunk idiots or on a street corner in the 'hood.

Getting punked in your dorm and allowing it is about on par with getting punked in your own home by your little brother. That just shouldn't happen.


I'm only saying what I would tell the kid to do if he'd ever come to me about this problem, and I probably would have said document what happened, tell your floor RA and then go see the head of your dorm.

Don't just take it.

Being truthful, if this kid had screamed and cussed his lungs out the first time these guys crossed the line, IMO it would have been over.

THIS. ALL DAY.

 

[RaiderLL]

Truly sorry about the rape thing, I seriously don't get how people could mind there business in a situation like that.
It's interesting that you always seem to apply the people should jump in mindset when its a girl (the chick in the store, chick at the football game) but here its been more of a focus on what the victim should have done.
I am having a hard time following your logic unless its easier to see yourself in those women and not in this kid.

Honestly, I think being a woman (and having dealt with that feeling of being utterly powerless), I do relate more to women in trouble. But by no means do I draw the line with just females. I've said in those other threads that I think intervention is justified when things are unbalanced. In this case, there were 3 dudes harassing one...I think one of the other 4 witnesses should've stepped in. The fact that he was "out numbered" doesn't negate personal responsibility though, but imo the right thing to do would've been to offer him some support so that maybe he would feel confident to stand up to those racist fuckers. May sound idealistic, but these truly aren't just words I'm pulling out of my ass, they're my beliefs and how I live. You act sometimes like we're all just spewing fantasy-life scenarios, but from what I've seen in this thread, everyone who's pushing for people to stand up for themselves, have offered real life examples showcasing that behavior with successful outcomes.

Because most people don't really want a real fight in which their opponent is somewhat skilled and confident. They only want to dominate if anything. Bullies can sense fear and that is what they feed on. That is why assertiveness works, if you are truly unafraid. Once a person realizes anyone can be beat if you hit them right then they will fear no one. This lack of fear alone will repel most bullies and thus suppress the need for a fight.

Funny that I actually got tested when I was in a club in Seattle about 4 months ago. I rarely get tested anymore. This dude was just another dummy with an ego problem. I squashed that shit and kept dancing.

:smt023 My kind of guy lol

 

[lippy]

wow just wow...I can not believe that some of you are actually blaming this kid for what happened to him

at this point it is a teachable moment:
1. he didn't kill himself
2. he didn't kill all of them
3. they didn't kill him

any one of the previous options could have happened which is the sad truth and we would then be debating the guilt or innocence of the murderer (s)

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

wow just wow...I can not believe that some of you are actually blaming this kid for what happened to him

at this point it is a teachable moment:
1. he didn't kill himself
2. he didn't kill all of them
3. they didn't kill him

any one of the previous options could have happened which is the sad truth and we would then be debating the guilt or innocence of the murderer (s)

This is no different than when certain people here throw out the "victim mentality" card towards actual people here when they talk various racial profiling or harassment incidents or any issues in general, especially ones that they have gone through. And just like those particular instances & individuals, it all comes down to whether or not you can relate to the circumstances. Just my opinion of course............

 

[lippy]

This is no different than when certain people here throw out the "victim mentality" card towards actual people here when they talk various racial profiling or harassment incidents or any issues in general, especially ones that they have gone through. And just like those particular instances & individuals, it all comes down to whether or not you can relate to the circumstances. Just my opinion of course............

I don't agree with you at all...I relate to this situation as a parent...with no color attached to it...this is not just about boys...it can happen with girls...it's not just about the weak...the fat kid...the skinny kid...the slow kid...the nerd...

you may think you have taught your kids to handle bullying but what happens when your kids stop telling you what is going on at school...they have listened to you tell them to stick up for themselves but now they are in a situation that is beyond their control...so they don't come to you...they just take it and take it...no one around them sticks up for them so they retreat so far into themselves that they start to believe that they deserve what is happening to them...they have no one to turn to...they put on a good act for you so that you don't find out...they don't want their dad to laugh at them or be mad for not being man enough to stick up to the bullying...

sadly this is when kids give up and consider that they might be better off dead than being in a situation that there is no light at the end of the tunnel...

my heart breaks for this kid...not because he is black but because he is 17 years old and away from home and obviously very very alone

keep in mind RA it can happen to any kid...even yours god forbid...just about every parent that it has happened to wishes that they had been able to see the signs and intervene

this kid was clearly a victim of bullying, harassment, emotional and physical abuse

 

[The Dark King]

I don't agree with you at all...I relate to this situation as a parent...with no color attached to it...this is not just about boys...it can happen with girls...it's not just about the weak...the fat kid...the skinny kid...the slow kid...the nerd...

you may think you have taught your kids to handle bullying but what happens when your kids stop telling you what is going on at school...they have listened to you tell them to stick up for themselves but now they are in a situation that is beyond their control...so they don't come to you...they just take it and take it...no one around them sticks up for them so they retreat so far into themselves that they start to believe that they deserve what is happening to them...they have no one to turn to...they put on a good act for you so that you don't find out...they don't want their dad to laugh at them or be mad for not being man enough to stick up to the bullying...

sadly this is when kids give up and consider that they might be better off dead than being in a situation that there is no light at the end of the tunnel...

my heart breaks for this kid...not because he is black but because he is 17 years old and away from home and obviously very very alone

keep in mind RA it can happen to any kid...even yours god forbid...just about every parent that it has happened to wishes that they had been able to see the signs and intervene

this kid was clearly a victim of bullying, harassment, emotional and physical abuse

Well that tears it. Hell is 40'below right now because I agree with Lippy 1000% on this one.

 

[The Dark King]

You know that never happens is college.lol

That's the real difference for me.

It would be like if I heard of this happening to a guy who worked for a consulting firm. Or someone who works at a hospital. Some things don't really go down that way in more formal, responsible settings.

You had bullies in HS at an all male private school who beat up other students?? And it was tolerated?? A school where kid's parents are paying directly out the pocket for their kid's to attend??

That's unbelievable to me.

You gotta remember these were teenagers no one felt comfortable going to authority figures it made it worst than actually getting bullied. Kids usually want to handle things on their own. Its unbelievable to me that you didn't experience that as a kid. We tried to keep our parents out of everything at all.cost mainly because at that age school isn't really about learning its about your social interactions. How old are you? Maybe there's an age gap issue here.

 

[The Dark King]

Because most people don't really want a real fight in which their opponent is somewhat skilled and confident. They only want to dominate if anything. Bullies can sense fear and that is what they feed on. That is why assertiveness works, if you are truly unafraid. Once a person realizes anyone can be beat if you hit them right then they will fear no one. This lack of fear alone will repel most bullies and thus suppress the need for a fight.

Funny that I actually got tested when I was in a club in Seattle about 4 months ago. I rarely get tested anymore. This dude was just another dummy with an ego problem. I squashed that shit and kept dancing.

I really don't agree with your premise because in my experience bullies usually have shit to prove and need a person to prove it. Like I said they pick on people they know have little chance of beating them in a fight if they do decide to "stand up"
This just may be a matter of different life experiences. Think about who bully.victims usually are, smaller slower weaker kids what difference does it make if someone smaller and.weaker wants to.act tough?

 

[The Dark King]

No, I'm not dense. I'm just someone who grew up having to deal with grown ass racist like this, never mind their ignorant offspring, on a regular basis so it's hard for me to digest that in the year 2013 how a black male in college of all places remains in a situation to escalate to the point that it got to. Especially when there were people who stood by and did nothing to bring the situation to light.




THIS. ALL DAY.

Like I.said you're applying grown man logic and reasoning to.a teenage problem. Not to mention he may have not ever had to deal with it before so he may not have been equipped to deal with it.
You see my point?

One thing I wish you guys would stop doing its throwing out the fact that he's in college as if it means anything. He's still seventeen, they don't make you take "man" pills at orientation of freshman year.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

I don't agree with you at all...I relate to this situation as a parent...with no color attached to it...this is not just about boys...it can happen with girls...it's not just about the weak...the fat kid...the skinny kid...the slow kid...the nerd...

you may think you have taught your kids to handle bullying but what happens when your kids stop telling you what is going on at school...they have listened to you tell them to stick up for themselves but now they are in a situation that is beyond their control...so they don't come to you...they just take it and take it...no one around them sticks up for them so they retreat so far into themselves that they start to believe that they deserve what is happening to them...they have no one to turn to...they put on a good act for you so that you don't find out...they don't want their dad to laugh at them or be mad for not being man enough to stick up to the bullying...

sadly this is when kids give up and consider that they might be better off dead than being in a situation that there is no light at the end of the tunnel...

my heart breaks for this kid...not because he is black but because he is 17 years old and away from home and obviously very very alone

keep in mind RA it can happen to any kid...even yours god forbid...just about every parent that it has happened to wishes that they had been able to see the signs and intervene

this kid was clearly a victim of bullying, harassment, emotional and physical abuse

I don't know what kind of relationship you or other's have with your kid's that you feel that they will get themselves into a situation so bad that they feel they can't come to you for help. I'm not saying I'm the ultimate father or anything of the sort but I think I have a pretty good grasp on reading my kid's & their personalities, especially when something's off. And if I miss something my wife is pretty damn good at picking something up. It baffles the hell out of me to hear adults talk about kids today as if they are some lost & hopeless causes or some strange enigmatic sub species they can't communicate with. Kids today deal with a lot of the same basic issues & problems that kids of past generations have. Bullying is one of those issues. Has bullying today altered in how it's conducted compared to to generations past. Yes, but it is still bullying. Like everything in regards to life my wife & I teach our kid's to go & do their best in order to be the best but we also prepare them for the worst, because life is no picnic & the world has both good loving people & ignorant hateful people as well. Strictly my opinion, but this young man obviously was sheltered or pampered to make it into COLLEGE and not be able to handle a bullying/harassment situation. You and others may feel free to believe he was a poor victim of circumstances because society today is just so fucked up. But who has allowed it to become that way? The kid's coming up or the parent's raising those kid's? No it's not his fault that he went through what he did. It's the parents who didn't provide him with the proper tools to deal with a basic fact of life with bullying/harassment. I'm guessing they also failed to teach him how to deal with possible situations with any child predators as well while he was growing up because clearly that only happens to other people's children and couldn't possibly happen to their child.

 

[RaiderLL]

I don't know what kind of relationship you or other's have with your kid's that you feel that they will get themselves into a situation so bad that they feel they can't come to you for help. I'm not saying I'm the ultimate father or anything of the sort but I think I have a pretty good grasp on reading my kid's & their personalities, especially when something's off. And if I miss something my wife is pretty damn good at picking something up. It baffles the hell out of me to hear adults talk about kids today as if they are some lost & hopeless causes or some strange enigmatic sub species they can't communicate with. Kids today deal with a lot of the same basic issues & problems that kids of past generations have. Bullying is one of those issues. Has bullying today altered in how it's conducted compared to to generations past. Yes, but it is still bullying. Like everything in regards to life my wife & I teach our kid's to go & do their best in order to be the best but we also prepare them for the worst, because life is no picnic & the world has both good loving people & ignorant hateful people as well. Strictly my opinion, but this young man obviously was sheltered or pampered to make it into COLLEGE and not be able to handle a bullying/harassment situation. You and others may feel free to believe he was a poor victim of circumstances because society today is just so fucked up. But who has allowed it to become that way? The kid's coming up or the parent's raising those kid's? No it's not his fault that he went through what he did. It's the parents who didn't provide him with the proper tools to deal with a basic fact of life with bullying/harassment. I'm guessing they also failed to teach him how to deal with possible situations with any child predators as well while he was growing up because clearly that only happens to other people's children and couldn't possibly happen to their child.

Couldn't have said it any better. I'd rep you if I could :smt023

 

[The Dark King]

Honestly, I think being a woman (and having dealt with that feeling of being utterly powerless), I do relate more to women in trouble. But by no means do I draw the line with just females. I've said in those other threads that I think intervention is justified when things are unbalanced. In this case, there were 3 dudes harassing one...I think one of the other 4 witnesses should've stepped in. The fact that he was "out numbered" doesn't negate personal responsibility though, but imo the right thing to do would've been to offer him some support so that maybe he would feel confident to stand up to those racist fuckers. May sound idealistic, but these truly aren't just words I'm pulling out of my ass, they're my beliefs and how I live. You act sometimes like we're all just spewing fantasy-life scenarios, but from what I've seen in this thread, everyone who's pushing for people to stand up for themselves, have offered real life examples showcasing that behavior with successful outcomes.



:smt023 My kind of guy lol

Its not about living in fantasy land it's the double standards you guys, especially you, apply to females and males. In what scenario would you ever say being out numbered as a female doesn't free you from personal responsibility
I didn't see any posts that the woman in that convenience store assault should have taken responsibility instead there was post after post putting responsibility on the bystanders. There was a belief she was dealing with someone bigger and stronger and needed help but in this situation its like you guys look for every opportunity to avoid placing blame where its deserved, the racist piece of shit bullies period the end.

 

[andreboba]

Bah. Bullying in college is almost non-existent outside of sororities/fraternities/sports teams.

It just doesn't happen very often. Now, situations between roommates can sometimes get psychotic and violent, but that's just friction between two people not bullying.

I agree wholeheartedly with RA this kid was not prepared to leave home and attend college because he wasn't schooled on what he needed to know being out on his own for the first time.

It sounds like he didn't have a single friend on campus to share what was happening to him, which is even sadder.