combat roles to women?

[pettyofficerj]

It's not upsetting, unless you use it as an excuse to prevent ALL women from doing something. My point has been, and remains, that if a woman wants to go in to combat and can do the job, her gender shouldn't be a barrier. It's pretty clear that women HAVE been doing the job in this war, and doing it well. Panetta's announcement is just making into policy that which has already been practice, anyway. Except that now women can get combat pay, be armed & armored for the job, and have the opportunities for advancement which have been previously closed to them.

AFAIK, women are/were seeing combat because of the dissolution of battlelines

HOWEVER...being in combat (ie firefight), and being a part of an infantry squad (you know, actually assigned to be a rifleman, grenadier, saw gunner, etc) whose purpose is to be good at finding and killing mothafuckas, are two different animals. once you start seeing women live that daily life, being ready and willing to hump ground to fuck up an enemy battalion at a moments notice, you'll see more acceptance

as far as those percentages and identifying the fact that LOTS of men arent fit for infantry duty, the FACT remains that MEN still make up that occupation so i wouldn't cling to throwing around 'but men fail too':mrgreen:

 

[pettyofficerj]

It's not upsetting, unless you use it as an excuse to prevent ALL women from doing something. My point has been, and remains, that if a woman wants to go in to combat and can do the job, her gender shouldn't be a barrier. It's pretty clear that women HAVE been doing the job in this war, and doing it well. Panetta's announcement is just making into policy that which has already been practice, anyway. Except that now women can get combat pay, be armed & armored for the job, and have the opportunities for advancement which have been previously closed to them.

careful..being 'armed and armored' for the job sometimes mean carrying kit that weighs 50-70lbs for miles on end

from what I keep hearing, it's the heavy gear/ruck part that really kills the women off

 

[TreePixie]

careful..being 'armed and armored' for the job sometimes mean carrying kit that weighs 50-70lbs for miles on end

from what I keep hearing, it's the heavy gear/ruck part that really kills the women off

Indeed. I don't think anyone enjoys that part. When I was a climber, I had to routinely hike hours through heavily wooded, and or on talus & scree areas carrying a full rack, which could easily be 40-50 pounds once you account for gear, water, clothing, etc. I hated it. (one of the reasons i liked climbing in the Shawangunks - walk up to the cliff, climb - no hiking in) I could never have been an infantry soldier. But I'm a tiny little thing, and I know there are a lot of women who are bigger than I am, and stronger than me even on my best day.

I would think a guy my size would not be best cut out for the infantry either. One way we have it all over guys, though, is endurance, physically, which may come from the need to go through labor ans delivery. So some things may balance out. It's going to have to continue to be a case by case basis as it is with all soldiers. If you have the stuff to do the job, great. If not...nope. I actually think women will do better in special forces than in basic army infantry.

 

[The Dark King]

Indeed. I don't think anyone enjoys that part. When I was a climber, I had to routinely hike hours through heavily wooded, and or on talus & scree areas carrying a full rack, which could easily be 40-50 pounds once you account for gear, water, clothing, etc. I hated it. (one of the reasons i liked climbing in the Shawangunks - walk up to the cliff, climb - no hiking in) I could never have been an infantry soldier. But I'm a tiny little thing, and I know there are a lot of women who are bigger than I am, and stronger than me even on my best day.

I would think a guy my size would not be best cut out for the infantry either. One way we have it all over guys, though, is endurance, physically, which may come from the need to go through labor ans delivery. So some things may balance out. It's going to have to continue to be a case by case basis as it is with all soldiers. If you have the stuff to do the job, great. If not...nope. I actually think women will do better in special forces than in basic army infantry.

How tall are you?

 

[pettyofficerj]

Indeed. I don't think anyone enjoys that part. When I was a climber, I had to routinely hike hours through heavily wooded, and or on talus & scree areas carrying a full rack, which could easily be 40-50 pounds once you account for gear, water, clothing, etc. I hated it. (one of the reasons i liked climbing in the Shawangunks - walk up to the cliff, climb - no hiking in) I could never have been an infantry soldier. But I'm a tiny little thing, and I know there are a lot of women who are bigger than I am, and stronger than me even on my best day.

I would think a guy my size would not be best cut out for the infantry either. One way we have it all over guys, though, is endurance, physically, which may come from the need to go through labor ans delivery. So some things may balance out. It's going to have to continue to be a case by case basis as it is with all soldiers. If you have the stuff to do the job, great. If not...nope. I actually think women will do better in special forces than in basic army infantry.

How tall are you?

afaik, small guys have always found a way into the infantry

it wasnt uncommon for 'tunnel rats' to be the shorter guys in a unit, that would go in and sweep for enemy

a man/woman of the same height and weight will still have the biological differences, so you can't compare the two

 

[pettyofficerj]

bottom line....even with the door open to women, damn near all infantry, armor, combat engineers will be men for decades to come

one of the main purposes of opening the door was so that career women could join a combat MOS and fast track up the ladder like their male counterparts, to offset the overwhelming male generalship. it's a victory for women on one end, to be able to try anything..but in the long-run, it's still not going to accomplish much.

 

[TreePixie]

How tall are you?

Five two , when I fluff my hair.

 

[GFunk]

bottom line....even with the door open to women, damn near all infantry, armor, combat engineers will be men for decades to come

one of the main purposes of opening the door was so that career women could join a combat MOS and fast track up the ladder like their male counterparts, to offset the overwhelming male generalship. it's a victory for women on one end, to be able to try anything..but in the long-run, it's still not going to accomplish much.

Infantry mofos better be ready to get hit with EO complaints and insensitive language complaints. If your hear how those mufuckas talks...sheit. And honestly, it will probably be more of the women having to get used to infantry than men getting used to women coming in, because infantry mufuckas aren't gonna let women change the way how they do or SAY shit. I'm not in an infantry unit, but I know people who are infantry or have been in infantry units. Women being allowed on the front line is one thing, living around combat dudes in combat units? Well, let's just say I hope they have skin thicker than the body armor they wear.

 

[pettyofficerj]

Infantry mofos better be ready to get hit with EO complaints and insensitive language complaints. If your hear how those mufuckas talks...sheit. And honestly, it will probably be more of the women having to get used to infantry than men getting used to women coming in, because infantry mufuckas aren't gonna let women change the way how they do or SAY shit. I'm not in an infantry unit, but I know people who are infantry or have been in infantry units. Women being allowed on the front line is one thing, living around combat dudes in combat units? Well, let's just say I hope they have skin thicker than the body armor they wear.

pretty much

all that talk about getting pussy or calling dudes bitches and shit is gunna be a riot when the females hit the squads

not to mention the physicality of those guys

im going to keep my eyes glued to the news outlets to see what happens

 

[TreePixie]

pretty much

all that talk about getting pussy or calling dudes bitches and shit is gunna be a riot when the females hit the squads

not to mention the physicality of those guys

im going to keep my eyes glued to the news outlets to see what happens

Speaking as a woman who went into departments of all men used to talking just that way...it took 3 days. For three days, every time they said something like that, they apologized. On the third day, I told them the next fucking bitch who apologized was going to see me spit on the floor and grab my crotch. Dead silence for about ten seconds, and then they cracked up. As I went on to explain, I wasn't there to change their culture, I was there to do a job. Now, I was a bit older than I'd expect infantry soldiers to be, and that might make a difference. But I had long since gotten over being upset by words in the office, or even the naked pictures of women. I just brought in a calendar of naked men and hung it up without saying a word. Funny, the naked women pictures kind of disappeared after that, though

 

[goodlove]

bottom line....even with the door open to women, damn near all infantry, armor, combat engineers will be men for decades to come

one of the main purposes of opening the door was so that career women could join a combat MOS and fast track up the ladder like their male counterparts, to offset the overwhelming male generalship. it's a victory for women on one end, to be able to try anything..but in the long-run, it's still not going to accomplish much.

i agree .

the other thing to look at is women getrting post traumatic syndrome. ladies, that is nothing to fool with. soldiers (men) have been ginnie pigs for the govt for a long time. dont need women in the pot too

 

[pettyofficerj]

Well you have just done all and seen all huh......what haven't you done

dunno..i was half expecting her to say her granny was a green beret

 

[Beasty]

:smt030:smt042

 

[TreePixie]

i agree .

the other thing to look at is women getrting post traumatic syndrome. ladies, that is nothing to fool with. soldiers (men) have been ginnie pigs for the govt for a long time. dont need women in the pot too

Both women and men coming back from this war are having issues with PTSD. I live in a military town, and nearly every month, there is a murder/suicide with a vet involved. Because of the acceptance of male violence in our society, it seems always to be a male vet. We are NOT doing a good job taking care of our returning vets.

 

[TreePixie]

Well you have just done all and seen all huh......what haven't you done

Hey, I'm old. I had to do something with all that time. As a climber, humping your gear in is just part of the game. I freely admit it was the part I didn't like, but especially when I was climbing with guys, if you think for one moment I was going to complain or slow us down, you don't know me LOL.

 

[TreePixie]

dunno..i was half expecting her to say her granny was a green beret

No.but I did have an uncle who retired as a brigadier general. Not a particularly military family, but my dad's sister married into one.

 

[pettyofficerj]

Indeed. I don't think anyone enjoys that part. When I was a climber, I had to routinely hike hours through heavily wooded, and or on talus & scree areas carrying a full rack, which could easily be 40-50 pounds once you account for gear, water, clothing, etc. I hated it. (one of the reasons i liked climbing in the Shawangunks - walk up to the cliff, climb - no hiking in) I could never have been an infantry soldier. But I'm a tiny little thing, and I know there are a lot of women who are bigger than I am, and stronger than me even on my best day.

I would think a guy my size would not be best cut out for the infantry either. One way we have it all over guys, though, is endurance, physically, which may come from the need to go through labor ans delivery. So some things may balance out. It's going to have to continue to be a case by case basis as it is with all soldiers. If you have the stuff to do the job, great. If not...nope. I actually think women will do better in special forces than in basic army infantry.

wait..i just read that last line and LOL'd harder than I have before

take what's expected from 11bravo physically and multiply that by a factor of 10

if a woman cant pass muster at benning, she wont be passing at bragg

that was a good laugh tho

 

[TreePixie]

wait..i just read that last line and LOL'd harder than I have before

take what's expected from 11bravo physically and multiply that by a factor of 10

if a woman cant pass muster at benning, she wont be passing at bragg

that was a good laugh tho

Well, we are designed for long term endurance, which is why though I doubt women will ever catch men at a 100 yard dash, the difference in marathon times grows ever closer. We manage labor and delivery, often for days (24.5 hours in the case of my very large son). I wouldn't count us out in situations which require endurance. Time will tell.

 

[TheHuntress]

Well, we are designed for long term endurance, which is why though I doubt women will ever catch men at a 100 yard dash, the difference in marathon times grows ever closer. We manage labor and delivery, often for days (24.5 hours in the case of my very large son). I wouldn't count us out in situations which require endurance. Time will tell.

Right. This is why I continue to question the standards of fitness for the military being based on masculine strengths. I ask people, what does the ability to do a pullup have to do with you running 10+ miles? Now, I get the correlation of overall physical fitness - obviously, if you're overweight, you won't be able to do many of those things anyway, but we're talking physically fit people. I would venture that a great number of female marathoners could not do a pullup...and if they could, they probably couldn't do many of them together. That doesn't mean that they don't have the ability to handle a month on a mission.

But, just like I don't believe everyone is fit to be a doctor, I don't believe that everyone is fit to be a soldier. Being a man doesn't make you more qualified to be a soldier by virtue of having a penis just like having a uterus doesn't make you less qualified.

I did hear something troubling though, from a friend of mine, about women in the military which that really bothered me. She and her husband were in the Navy- that's where they met- and she was a reporter. Turns out, there is a nasty trend with women in the military who get pregnant to avoid deployment or be able to leave deployment early. I don't like that. I think it spits in the face of everything that equality stands for, although I also don't see any reasonable solution.

 

[Bliss]

Both women and men coming back from this war are having issues with PTSD. I live in a military town, and nearly every month, there is a murder/suicide with a vet involved. Because of the acceptance of male violence in our society, it seems always to be a male vet. We are NOT doing a good job taking care of our returning vets.

Because we do not deprogram our returning soldiers. We train them to be killers..then bring them home. Some don't adapt too well to that. It is a big problem.
There really should be a transitional re-programing program in effect.