help..wonderful white women/parents

ReginaStar said:
So r u saying if they call their children black and white that doesn't bother u but if they just use the term biracial it does?
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ummmm

Ymra said:
Yrma takes issue to whites insistence on using the term biracial/multiracial for some warped misguided reason to bring credit to each race, which it does not do. In the end how you identify yourself and your children is your own choice, but the faux offense from whites is silly.
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Ymra said:
ummmm
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So r u saying that you don't think calling oneself white/black, African American/European American, white/Asian, African American/Korean American, black/Hispanic, etc is not giving credit to each race? I'm seriously trying to understand what your saying.
 
Ymra said:
Yrma takes issue to whites insistence on using the term biracial/multiracial for some warped misguided reason to bring credit to each race, which it does not do.
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Biracial is just a modern euphemism for mulatto. It would be problematic to use the literal meaning of biracial as a term to affirm separate cultures, when it doesn't specify a said culture. Terms like mulatto or cablasian would be more apt.

The progression from this, the fact that there is no current "mulatto", "cablasian" class is another issue entirely. How these individuals are acculturated and associate later in life, or the implication of a separate class, seems to be what this issue is about to me.
 
ReginaStar said:
So r u saying that you don't think calling oneself white/black, African American/European American, white/Asian, African American/Korean American, black/Hispanic, etc is not giving credit to each race? I'm seriously trying to understand what your saying.
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Regina dear heart, what I am saying is...


Ymra said:
I take issue to whites insistence on using the term biracial/multiracial for some warped misguided reason to bring credit to each race, which it does not do. In the end how you identify yourself and your children is your own choice, but the faux offense from whites is silly.
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ReginaStar said:
I don't understand the difference between trying to escape stigma of being black and trying to escape blackness. I thought those whom were trying to escape blackness was trying to escape the stigma. Can you explain through example what exactly you are saying?

I thought you may have been using African American in that sense and not in the meaning of black a race however African American, Thia American, black or Asian. I don't believe you can be atleast half of a race and only be a singular race with a parent of another race. I believe you are the race of your parent. My husband is black. His mother is black and his fahter was black/white. My husband was adopted. His adopted mother (bio aunt) is black and his adopted father is puerto rican. He is a black man with a puerto rican dad. His siblings are not African Americans. They are Afro-Puerto Rican Americans. They grew up in the midwest too. My son is not black with a white mom. He is black and white with a white mom and black dad.

Yes I understand the reality that most countires are labeled by ethnicity opposed to race. But same difference my children for example are both multiethnic and multiracial. African American and European American. Black and white.
If something is wrong it benefits no one. A caste system whether it was in the US, South America and the Caribbeans, or Africa is wrong regardless. It's also wrong to incorrectly label someone if they don't choose that label. Although I question that too I mean or we right to label white people as black b/c they choose that label for themselves (cause some do)? Social or Scientifically what relevance does it have. There still will be a difference between Black, white, and Black/white and every other singular race/ethnicity or combination.

I just want to know why is not such a big deal to label by race white, black, Asian, native American, or (ethnicity) Hispanic. But when we start labeling someone multiple races it's suddenly a problem. All whites do not share the same culture, not blacks, nor Asians, nor Hispanics. Yrma takes issue to biracial/multiracial terms but does not take issue to black, Asian, etc terms when those terms to not describe the culture of an individual either. I don't get it.
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Okay reginastar, I'll attempt to make this brief for the sake of the other forum readers/posters. To me (and I speak only for myself in this matter), seeking to 'escape stigma' is attempting to live a life free of the perceived daily slights and abuses to which we are subject as black people. Such persons do not harbor any anti-black racial bias, but are simply looking for ways to live their life free of its personal impact on them. If they find that a different category will get white Americans to look at them differently and treat them differently, so be it. If it allows you to express the ethnicity of another parent, more the better. And better still if it can be done without hostility toward your own race (or one of the multiple ones to which you belong). This is the same unfulfilled longing for fairness and justice that we all feel as black people, regardless of what percentage of sub-Saharan black genetic material we harbor.

To 'deny blackness' is to somehow reinvent a personal history that includes no sub-saharan Africans in it. Perhaps in Georgia this is not the case, but growing up in the midwest I have known scores (if not hundreds) of multiracial kids who regularly, as kids, said "I'm not black, I'm Sicilian" (or Egyptian, or Puerto Rican or any other ethnic group with a hybridized appearance) when in fact they were both, or simply African-American and Anglo, in an attempt to 'transcend', not the discrimination they felt or faced, but their race itself. Then the biracial movement came along and provided another such 'escape' vehicle to those so inclined, by creating another category that, while acknowledging the African (and especially African-American) heritage, prevented it from taking center stage in a way that is salient for white Americans. Downplaying (even when the child acknowledges both racial heritages) the 'blackness' of multiracial children provides a means for white racists to be inclusive without confronting their own racism. I do not think that all multiracial children have this intention when self-defining, however that is the role that 'officially hybrid' caste structures and categories play in societies characterized by unreformed white racism. The central crux of the problem is the burdens that racist societies place on people who do not conform to the normative race and the weight identity places on others. I think our central disagreement here is that I do not believe that any racial politics in the US can take place in a vacuum, but are instead new points along a line that has both historical aspects and as yet undetermined future ones. And I feel that multiracial identity politics take place in the same arena that all other racial identity issues are played out, namely an arena with a 400+ year history of anti-black (and anti-indigenous) racism and barbarism that cannot be divorced (even when they differ in form and occasionally in some substantive aspects) from any modern developments.

Before you reply, please bear in mind that I know we don't agree, nor do I expect us to. My experiences stem from my life as a black man in the US, growing up in an environment with less than ideal racial attitudes than the progressive racial tendencies you see in Georgia (the rust-belt Midwest). In addition, I also have lived some of the varied racial experiences and background you cite in the examples of your children and see them in my own son as well. Remember that race is a social construct, not a biological one, and the emphasis on defining it is a feature of human societies, and more so of racist ones. The mere existence of the movement to categorize and explain who we are in a more than anecdotal fashion is because there are real consequences to your life based on how others (particularly if you are not a member of the majority group) perceive you. Why you and I differ so vastly in perception can be the result of a host of factors, including our geography, gender, personal experiences of racism, age, race and more. However, I enjoy hearing your perspective as it provides an insight into the minds of others who think as you do and the motivations for those views. Thanks again!
 
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Ymra said:
Regina dear heart, what I am saying is...
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Sorry for that not being enough information for me to understand what you are saying. I've asked specific questions to try and see exactly where your coming from that would help understand where these sentences were left too wide open for interpretation.

I don't consider it a "credit" thing any how. I see it as a pride thing. Pride in where you come from, pride in the person you are. Your racial make up is part of what makes you the person you are just as your gender does.
 
ReginaStar said:
Why would some assume Tiger thought he would be treated any diffrent? Hell even Asians are not treated fairly in the US.
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I think Ymra was pointing out that black males are regularly maligned in the press and national consciousness. Asians, while not particularly loved by white law enforcement officers, do not receive (unless in ghettos or suspected of being in the country illegally) anywhere near the near-absolute disrespect shown to blacks (albeit not by all law enforcement).
 
orejon4 said:
Okay reginastar, I'll attempt to make this brief for the sake of the other forum readers/posters. To me (and I speak only for myself in this matter), seeking to 'escape stigma' is attempting to live a life free of the perceived daily slights and abuses to which we are subject as black people. Such persons do not harbor any anti-black racial bias, but are simply looking for ways to live their life free of its personal impact on them. If they find that a different category will get white Americans to look at them differently and treat them differently, so be it. If it allows you to express the ethnicity of another parent, more the better. And better still if it can be done without hostility toward your own race (or one of the multiple ones to which you belong). This is the same unfulfilled longing for fairness and justice that we all feel as black people, regardless of what percentage of sub-Saharan black genetic material we harbor.

To 'deny blackness' is to somehow reinvent a personal history that includes no sub-saharan Africans in it. Perhaps in Georgia this is not the case, but growing up in the midwest I have known scores (if not hundreds) of multiracial kids who regularly, as kids, said "I'm not black, I'm Sicilian" (or Egyptian, or Puerto Rican or any other ethnic group with a hybridized appearance) when in fact they were both, or simply African-American and Anglo, in an attempt to 'transcend', not the discrimination they felt or faced, but their race itself. Then the biracial movement came along and provided another such 'escape' vehicle to those so inclined, by creating another category that, while acknowledging the African (and especially African-American) heritage, prevented it from taking center stage in a way that is salient for white Americans. Downplaying (even when the child acknowledges both racial heritages) the 'blackness' of multiracial children provides a means for white racists to be inclusive without confronting their own racism. I do not think that all multiracial children have this intention when self-defining, however that is the role that 'officially hybrid' caste structures and categories play in societies characterized by unreformed white racism. The central crux of the problem is the burdens that racist societies place on people who do not conform to the normative race and the weight identity places on others. I think our central disagreement here is that I do not believe that any racial politics in the US can take place in a vacuum, but are instead new points along a line that has both historical aspects and as yet undetermined future ones. And I feel that multiracial identity politics take place in the same arena that all other racial identity issues are played out, namely an arena with a 400+ year history of anti-black (and anti-indigenous) racism and barbarism that cannot be divorced (even when they differ in form and occasionally in some substantive aspects) from any modern developments.

Before you reply, please bear in mind that I know we don't agree, nor do I expect us to. My experiences stem from my life as a black man in the US, growing up in an environment with less than ideal racial attitudes than the progressive racial tendencies you see in Georgia (the rust-belt Midwest). In addition, I also have lived some of the varied racial experiences and background you cite in the examples of your children and see them in my own son as well. Remember that race is a social construct, not a biological one, and the emphasis on defining it is a feature of human societies, and more so of racist ones. The mere existence of the movement to categorize and explain who we are in a more than anecdotal fashion is because there are real consequences to your life based on how others (particularly if you are not a member of the majority group) perceive you. Why you and I differ so vastly in perception can be the result of a host of factors, including our geography, gender, personal experiences of racism, age, race and more. However, I enjoy hearing your perspective as it provides an insight into the minds of others who think as you do and the motivations for those views. Thanks again!
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And that is exactly what I took you to me the first time. Again I do not think in any way shape or form that majority biracial folks identifying as biracial or trying to get "different" treatment than those who are non biracial black. Most I see have much pride in their blackness. In my original I posted as to the reason why I feel so many black people feel that way in regards to the past which has no relevant in today's society. Most folks identifying themselves as biracial know full well it makes no difference when it comes to the racial injustice system and repeatedly have tried to explain that but so many ears go deaf cause so many people will except no other reason. Some will accept have a sense of pride in certain ethnic groups like Asian and Hispanic but totally refuse to understand why someone would have pride in their white heritage. B/c of that very fact many biracial feel forced to only identify as black b/c so many will not accept them if they do not. Some are so ashamed they want even tell people they have a white parent. Some go the extremes of trying to darken their skin for such acceptance.

I appreciate your willingness to discuss your views and hear my out too.

Oh and let me add when discuss groups as a whole I tend to mean majority of the group not all of the group.
 
orejon4 said:
I think Ymra was pointing out that black males are regularly maligned in the press and national consciousness. Asians, while not particularly loved by white law enforcement officers, do not receive (unless in ghettos or suspected of being in the country illegally) anywhere near the near-absolute disrespect shown to blacks (albeit not by all law enforcement).
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I just threw that in there about the Asian part but the thing I'm really getting at is why is automatically assumed just b/c some identifies as multiracial that the person "thought" they would be treated differently?
I sense this "I told you, you were just black attitude" when it's not warranted. Saying your part black is not in anyway shape or form saying your not black therefore it's not saying you would not be treated as black. Those identifying as multiracial have still fought and still fight for the justice of African Americans and are fully aware they are seen as and treated like so. They wish to be treated as equals yes but they want their black brothers and sisters to also be treated as equals. Identifying with the other parts of their selves do not take away from that.
 
ReginaStar said:
And that is exactly what I took you to me the first time. Again I do not think in any way shape or form that majority biracial folks identifying as biracial or trying to get "different" treatment than those who are non biracial black. Most I see have much pride in their blackness. In my original I posted as to the reason why I feel so many black people feel that way in regards to the past which has no relevant in today's society. Most folks identifying themselves as biracial know full well it makes no difference when it comes to the racial injustice system and repeatedly have tried to explain that but so many ears go deaf cause so many people will except no other reason. Some will accept have a sense of pride in certain ethnic groups like Asian and Hispanic but totally refuse to understand why someone would have pride in their white heritage. B/c of that very fact many biracial feel forced to only identify as black b/c so many will not accept them if they do not. Some are so ashamed they want even tell people they have a white parent. Some go the extremes of trying to darken their skin for such acceptance.

I appreciate your willingness to discuss your views and hear my out too.

Oh and let me add when discuss groups as a whole I tend to mean majority of the group not all of the group.
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I said nor meant to imply that they're ashamed of having black or white parents, but at a very early age, children become aware of disparate treatment of the races in society, because it's a fact of life (regardless of how much we may wish it wasn't) and I think it's impossible to say that awareness of this doesn't have psychological implications on a child's self-image.

Also, I think it's impossible to say that 400+ years of conditioning and culture are irrelevant in today's society. They are the very building blocks of such society. And even positive change is predicated on it being a reaction to the negativity of the past. Things don't occur in a vacuum.

And oh yeah, I understood that you were not trying to say that EVERYONE is a certain way, just making a general statement.
 
Jesus, Regina what is with you and this strong urge to classify blk kids as biracial? good lawd lady, lol.
 
orejon4 said:
I said nor meant to imply that they're ashamed of having black or white parents, but at a very early age, children become aware of disparate treatment of the races in society, because it's a fact of life .
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I had a dear, dear friend who was native American, and was raised on a reservation (she passed on a few years ago, and I miss her a lot). When some basically white person would pull the cultural appropriation schtick and declare "Oh...I'm part Indian!" Shawl would look at them blankly and deadpan "Oh yeah? Which part?"
 
DOA said:
Jesus, Regina what is with you and this strong urge to classify blk kids as biracial? good lawd lady, lol.
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I classify black kids as black, biracial kids as mixed (black, white) and white kids as white. I racially classify people by their racial makeup.
 
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