European women really more "liberal" than US WW?

Ahh, there's so much Gold to reply to in this thread.

Firslty, I agree with a lot of what Leksola said about Australia and Australian politics. Like I said in a previous post. I haven't been to Europe, so really can't comment on their degree of "liberal-ness". I do have a lot of European friends, mostly through university...and I kind of agree that they're less inhibited, in some ways.

I think Australia is conservative in some ways, just generally about a lot of things, but we have very few hang ups. No-one would really judge anyone for anything, but the majority are still fairly conservative. Probably not quite as much as the USA, but maybe a little more than the general feeling in Europe. Now - if you think I'm wrong, please let me know...because that observation is purely based on my experience with European students...a distinct demographic on their own.

The previous Prime Minister in Australia was conservative, I guess...but like I said in the previous paragraph, Australia generally is. I think Kevin Rudd will, ultimately, be conservative too...But, the thing is, it doesn't matter who you are in Australia or what party, the majority of people are always skeptical of politicians...and people are always involved due to compulsory voting..so, ask anyone in Australia and they will have an opinion and it will generally be a negative one. It would be un-Australian not to be like that. haha.

But, I think KRudd will provide enough of a change and a fresh breath of air to Aus politics and I, for one, am happy about that, and interested to see what the future holds. I just hope this economic stuff, which is really totally out of his and our hands, doesn't sway people away from him, because that would be stupid. It's not his fault.

I am of the impression that if anyone is "too much" into anything in Australia, it's considered a bad thing...Except maybe for sport and alcohol...If you're too much into religion, people avoid you. But that's really it - no-one really cares, they just leave you to do your thing and probably joke about you a bit with their mates. Australia, to me, is a very easy-going place where anything goes, as long as you don't wave a flag and force it down people's throats.

Tinkerbell...I didn't get the impression that anyone was saying that "liberal" was better than not being "liberal". I agree that they're often used to describe politics and also lifestyle.

Swazi - yeah, I'm travelling part of the world...Hopefully the whole world one day. I am a qualified professional and, although I know things will be $$, I won't be living on a pub wage or anything like that. (FWIW - I have been planning this since I was in high school and chose my degree, because I knew I could travel with it)...

I am already dreaming of my trips around London, perving on all the hot BM. Haha. I seriously can't wait to be in a more diversified community. There are a severe lack of BM to check out at home. I'm really enjoying the USA so far.

I agree wit Leksola...Those loud Australians are embarassing. There are, unfortunately, a lot of Aussies which travel to London and make IDIOTS of themselves and the country...They're young, and looking for a good time. I am not in that category and hope that if I get any Aussies in my network, they're not like those people you see on the Tube.

I just spent about 3 weeks in Texas. There are some similarities - yes...The weather and a little bit of the scenery...But the cities - no. Maybe Austin, but definitely not Dallas/FW. I like Texas much more than I thought I would. I expected it to be full of people talking about rediculous things like guns and hunting...very un-Australian topics of conversation...and driving trucks and just loud, etc...It was a little bit like that, but much less than I expected, and i found out a lot of the history, too, which was really interesting. Cool place. Glad to be on my way now, though.

I watched the Biden/Palin debate last week and was horrified and shocked and laughing at that woman and her dropping in of "god"...To me, she is a dangerous, stupid woman. Religion and politics = oil and water. They don't mix. And by using that all the time - which seems very common in the USA, especially for the republicans, is poor form, IMO. If someone was like that at home, it would be political suicide...They might as well just quit right then and there. I couldn't believe it. She is purely a nut job. I can't believe that people like that stuff she says.

And, for the record, I am a practicing Christian...And I do not like that much religious talk in politics - it makes me very nervous.

This will probably be an unpopular statement..but just because it's Christianity and not another religion, does not make it any less scary than some of the religious, dictatorship countries around the world...Just because it's the USA and not the Middle East does not make it OK...Just putting that thought out there. It's called the separation of religion and state, and the idea exists for a reason - due to 2000 years of learning that the two shouldn't be mixed. Phew.

The thing is, and I know this post is getting very long and very off-topic now, yes - This is the USA and, no...it's not my country and I'm not voting..But because of the way the USA is and how they position themselves in the world-stage...whatever happens at this election will end up affecting Australia and a huge number of other countries around the world, and I for one do not ever want that woman, or anyone like her, having any possible impact on my future lifestyle, my country and my people.

 

Please don't take this personal but: You just proved my point about this thread! I'm sure you are a very nice person, and well meaning and I commend you for traveling around like you are, but I for one, am glad you are not voting in America. If you really want to know how Americans think you have to take an honest look at both sides with an open mind. (FOX news might be a place to start!)

I respect Sarah Palin a lot, and yes I even like her, I also respect Hillary Clinton, but I don't like her, I respect and trust John McCain, but don't like him very much, and I do not respect or trust Barrack Obama, but I do like him. Funny how that all plays out.

I'm a conservative from Arizona, and I have not voted for McCain for a very long time, but I will this year. Go figure! I'd rather sit down and visit with Obama and his wife than with McCain and his any day. (I'd rather vote for Colin Powell, but he isn't running, or even Rudy Giulliani.)

But I do Love Sarah Palin and that does not mean I agree with all she is, but by saying that she is a dangerous and stupid woman, you have just alienated about half of the American voting public, because no mater who wins, we all know that the popular vote is really very close to 50/50 in America.

I won't take it personal, I'll just chalk it up to a lack of education on your part. You see, ignorance can be fixed, stupid can't.

I think I'll end my comments here on this topic, and not pursue it anymore.

 

Fair enough.

But I made my comments based on more than just the debate. And I watched that debate with no pre-conceived ideas about anything.

I never said in my post that I support the Democrats or the Republicans. I said I don't like Sarah Palin. But, maybe I like her more than the Democrats?

And, I have been given the impression by everyone that I've spoken to that Fox is the LEAST balanced news channel on US TV...and is pretty much just batting for the Republicans. So, if you're only watching Fox, I would say that perhaps a wider view is in order.

I prefer to get my news from as wider variety as possible, and from non-mainstream news sources, for alternative points of view.

I don't particularly care for how the majority of Americans think. If I was following a majority in voting preferences (if I had the ability to vote), then surely that would be rediculously stupid and defeat the purpose of voting in the first place...I should vote for the party whose policies most closely match my personal values. Why should I care what the majority of Americans think?

And, it is not my desire to be-friend half or even the vast majority of the US voting public. For obvious reasons no-one in the USA could or should care about anything I say...I just call it how I see it. And I see it based on my experience, my culture, my education and my values. There is no such thing as a clear filter. So, what I said was my opinion (which I indicated in my post)....Maybe if I grew up here, then I would love what she said...I have no doubt that cultural values have led me to my opinion of Sarah Palin (who, I'm sure is a really lovely woman, FWIW).

Good. Because my comments weren't aimed at you anyway...so I wouldn't expect you to take it personally. And, I'm neither stupid nor ignorant nor uneducated. But, thanks for the tip. Just because my opinions don't match yours doesn't make me wrong and you right, or vice versa.

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Anyway, this is not a politics thread, and so...back to my original point which was drawing comparisons between WW around the world.

As I see it, I would say the spectrum from conservative to liberal runs (generally) in this way.

USA
South Africa/White Africans
Aus/NZ/UK
Europe

 

Yes I know, that's my point. But just because the same word has different meanings, does not mean their distinct meanings apply simultaneously to every situation.

 

Your posts just summed it all up FEHG, doing well for the Aussies here since I 100 percent agree with all you have said above.

Except for Sarah Palin probably being a nice woman I don't think so. She has been found guilty from that investigation of abusing her power as governor, nice people don't do that.

On the topic though, although it can be hard to generalised, I think your list does sum it up with respect to the women having spent big chunks of time in all places.

 

Oh, well..thanks very much. Gotta stick together - no-one else knows anything about us, so I say spread the word at every given opportunity.

I just realised that I should add that there is really a small margin between the most conservative and least conservative. It's not like there's a huge gap between the USA and Europe...but, I still think it exists, on the whole and as a generalisation.

Secondly, to Tinkerbell, if you would like to continue this debate in the politics thread, I would be more than happy to.

Thirdly, Sarah Palin...well, yeah, maybe she's not a nice woman, but I haven't met her so I can't comment on her dmeanor, but as a political figure I think she is just very disturbing.

 

Its ideology run amok!

I like Sarah Palin, but hate Hillary Clinton?

I don't like John McCain, but don't trust Obama?

Holy Cow... Does anybody that actually LIVES inside America have any common sense anymore?

Do I think Obama is the miracle worker? FUCK NO

Will McCain end up Governing pretty much "Moderate"? YES

But at the cost of maybe the start of another Cold War with Russia and the further out of control financing of the MIC (Military Industrial Complex)? The continuation of Cut Taxes and Spend economics?

Cythina McKinney is the best person for the job, maybe Nader, maybe even Bob Barr, but let's come back to reality, Obama is the best choice, period end of story.

If McCain is willing to use the nasty attacks he has used to insight stupid White people to take action against "Liberals", your saying that some how Obama is worst?

Get off the Saliva already, its about to be illegal in this country, its already banned in Aussieland.

I have outlined why Europeans are more liberal and its not rooted in political ideology....

 

I must correct u and tell u that unfortunately Europe is very racist still. Some places more then others, especially where the government is right-oriented.
It's different from the US because US has been having black people for a long time. Europe has seen the first migrations from Africa only after the indipendence of African countries (in the sixties) and especially from the '80s.
I'll talk about Italy because it's where I live: We had the first immigrants around the 80s, then a boom in the '90s and now the immigration is still growing. We have 4 millions immigrants, and a little part of them r blacks. Our country (social politics especially- welfare state etc ) wasn't prepared to receive immigrants. So still a lot of ppl is very racist. Now we r going through a very bad political and economical crisis and ignorant ppl say it's immigrants' fault. And immigrants r usually stereotyped as the "BLACKS" (as the black person is the most different person form the white one).
Being with a black man here it's still weird for ppl. I have dated black guys since I was 12 and some ppl in my neighborhood used call me "that bitch that always date n....". I'm 24 now and I think they don't say that anymore just because the gave up seeing me always with black guys lol. Even some of my friends that doesn't mind Italy having black ppl honestly confessed to me that they would never, never date a black man because the society's judgement is still too strong. Plus, dating a African American is not that bad as dating an African, due to the fact that ppl like whatever is richer...

So I don't know about other places, and yes, european girls r more "friendly" then american ones, but to answer to the initial question I would say no, I don't think european women r more "liberal".

Man... sorry for writing so much... Immiration is what I study and when I start talking ... somebody must stop me lol:smt100

 

Hi Thickshawty,

Interesting to get another point of view. I guess we all see everyone else based on some form of stereotype. I have no doubt that there is racism in Europe. I have relatives in France, and whilst I doubt they would say anything to me and I wouldn't hide it, I wouldn't put it in their face that I date BM. Not that it's any of their business....But I want to be on their best side.

I think the post originally started in terms of the fact just generally how the culture is and I think, from my observation of different people, that Europe is more liberal in its thinking than the USA and other areas.

But, yeah - I think racism could be worse in some places, because they haven't got the "guilt" factor of every other white country.

Think about it. Every other white country outside of Europe has been colonised. And the natives were always darker that the whites (obviously)...so there's just a taboo surrounding white people and "natives"...then added to that is the whole slavery thing in the New World...Whereas Europe is white people's home turf and the immigrants just happen to be black or middle eastern (and sometimes eastern european)....so I would assume there's less inclination to be walking on egg shells and the jumping on the PC band wagon. What's your opinion?

By the way - I'm not condoning racism in any way shape or form. Please...just making an observation as to how and why it plays out like it does. I know that the French (generally) make no secrecy of their racism, generally, and don't care what anyone thinks. Imagine if the USA, Canada or Aus did that. Phew....Or at least, that's the impression I get from the relatives and from the media.

 

Hey TS,welcome to the site. I read about Italy and its problems with the immigrant population. Some of the Italians wanted a Mussolini type of government with the election of Gianni Alemanno for mayor of Rome and Berlusconi's party in power.

 

Hello FEHG.
Sorry but I don't get the point of everything that u say because unfortunately my linguistic skills r very poor. Let me know if I understood well what u want to say: U meant to say that european get the immigration phenomenon in a bad way because they were used to "master" other "races", while countries that once or still now belong to the Commonwealth were kind of used to the thought of having contacts with "different ppl"?

If it is like that, I agree with you.

sorry i again if i misunderstood.

 

No, that wasn't exactly what I meant. And, I don't really agree with that either, although it may be true...I just hadn't thought of it.

No, I meant than in any other "white" country other than Europe, the white people are the invaders and in recent decades, due to the increase of political correctness and changing social values, a white person can no longer outwardly treat a person of colour any differently.

Whereas in Europe, they don't have the guilt factor - they are the natives...and anyone that's not white (in just about all of Europe) must therefore be an immigrant. Immigrants are treated poorly just about everywhere...so, I think there's less necessity for Europeans to follow the politically correct path like in all other "white" countries.

That's just an observation. I'm not saying I agree with it, or that it's right...just my opinion.

 

I reckon this is true for mainland Europe....but in the UK the PC brigade is definately out in force...

 

Here too...

 

Hmm - fair enough. I could be wrong - it's just the impression I get. As I've stated many times, I haven't been there.

And I think, as usual, I've taken this thread right off track
haha.

 

who doesn't hijack a thread once in a while

I don't know why, but IMO people here are usually extremely PC. Sometimes it's a bit too much. For instance a coworker of mine once used "dark haired" to describe a woman from Sierra Leone. She was dark haired, of course, but I was kind of surprised when the dark haired woman turned out not to be a just "regular" brunette

 

aw now I understand what u mean. I agree with you (not with europeans' attitude). Some europeans think that it's their home and don't want foreign ppl to bother them... even though they enslaved so much ppl.

 

I think all European countries who had colonies have experienced a similar immigrant situation to Italy. A lot of new immigrants have recently arrived who have very little prospect of finding work and they are blamed for all our social ills. Therefore it is difficult for WW to date these men.Even though, as you say, women will privately have no problem with it. I have had the same experience in France.Maybe I was lucky that I was in university with some overseas students. There it seemed acceptable to be with African men. Lets be honest, if a BM has monet and a good job, he will find WW more open. So to answer the question .... I dont know.

 

Having lived in France I can vouch that racism does exist. Right wing/anti immigrant parties regularly get a lot of the popular vote. But this is common in a lot of other European countries too eg Netherlands, Sweden, Austria etc The press often gives huge coverage to immigrant stories - with a negative slant of course eg welfare fraud, illegal working, crime, rape etc. So people are conditioned to see non whites negatively.

 

But you can't speak for the whole of Europe, France is a different kettle of fish to the UK, unless ur in Paris metropolitan area its more prominent racism (just my opinion) do you remember when all those buses, cars public buildings got Torched in 2005 because of those boys that were killed by police, it was so bad, a state of emergency was declared, i was so thankful that me and my husband did not take a trip there at that time to see his family.

The whole mess just shows how badly FRANCE does with race relations not Europe.