Why Do American Women Keep Doing This?

It's a debate that will never end as long as both sexes populate the earth.

There is nothing "wrong" with either women or men. There are issues that certain individuals of both sexes have.

Magazines of this kind tell women what they want to hear, so that they are bought. :roll:

Internet forums are a great thing, but what I encounter a lot on women's forums is that you have to be thick-skinned if you want to participate. You come on a forum with a problem, and get blasted by self-righteous individuals (I mean catty bitches) who tell you that you are immoral. They are, in essence, trying to prove their own morality to a complete stranger on the internet. :roll: Instead of being helped, you are condemned, simply for being honest... So, even on a forum you have to create a 100% positive persona so that you get 100% positive feedback. What's the point of the forums, then?

Like the philosopher Michel Montainge said, no one knows if you are a good or bad person and who you really are. They only know what you choose to show, and only you know who you are and what you do. A lot of forum communication, then, is pointless... Not so much here, but on many women's forums. It's often reduced to chatting, but real problems are dangerous to address.

 

that is interesting

 

Re:

Hi Seychelles,

Here's what I meant about introducing myself to the lady in question for the first time-she and I have never talked to each other before. Would it be a wrong approach therefore for me to at least tell her my name even if we're just having a casual conversation? Sometimes too, it may depend on the woman, I guess. I had talked to one woman at that same gym about two months ago, we had a good conversation and I politely asked for her number that same evening and got it. Unfortunately, and things like this keep happening to me...she was leaving Philadelphia for another state very far away during that same week, basically three days after I met her. We got to hang out just once...she was one of the best and nicest women I ever met in this city. I bought her a drink and then we walked around and went to another bar/lounge and she ordered some appetizers and drinks for both of us. She told me she hadn't been out on a date in a while and appeared to be the type who liked to take things really slow. At least I got a kiss on the lip when I dropped her off at her place. She came to see me by cab, and I felt it was appropriate for me to give her a ride home.

But I don't disagree with you. In terms of this other lady, I'll definitely keep it casual if I took a chance and talked to her. I know how many guys seem to seek her attention at that gym.

Tucker, have no doubt that I'm listening to you. I've certainly realized my mistakes and admitted to them, as mentioned in my earlier post.

 

I don't go out clubbing a lot, maybe once every few month but I do love a good lounge where I can drink a delicious Martini (If I remember one of Tuck's posts corectly that would make me a snobbish airhead which I can assure you I am not). As far as the clubs, my girlfriends always say the same "You can't meet a decent man there" and while I don't go to clubs to pick up men I don't eliminate the possibility either. After all I am a decent and smart human being and I am smart enough to KNOW that I am not the only decent person in the room.

Gym
If anyone would approach me while I work out I would be creeped out! I think the only place at the Gym one should feel comfortable to hit on someone is at the reception area or while waiting for a class to start but not while you are in the middle of your routine. A LITTLE flirting to make your intentions known would be ok in my opinion.

Women and Men feel when someone is desperate and uptight, so if a guy would buy me a drink and then complain shortly after that he thought I would dance with him can count on the fact that I am gone. If 10 bucks was to much to spent let me know and I'll pay ya back

 

Tucker is a wealthy, REpublican, Capitalist Snob, why would he call you a snob for drinking a martini?? the last time i saw, he drinks martinis as well.

he loves snobs, he is one himself and proud of it

 

Hi Eyvah
First of all congrats for getting into med school! That is awesome

I would like to respond to your posts and sorry all if this is off topic.
I am German and I have been in the US for about 5 years now, let me assure you that the perception about the US in Europe is very one sided and not a reflection of how life here actually is. Sure there are many things that are not good, but the same counts for Europe. The dislike of America(ns) in Europe is just as ignorant as the things Europeans gripe about and accuse Amercians of doing. Most Americans don't think they are Gods, they are very critical of a lot of things that go on just as Europeans are.

As far as women marrying to stay in the US. Well yeah, unfortunately there are many men and women who do this. But in my opinion it's not like anyone in that situation is blind to the fact. If a woman from another country is desperate enough to marry in order to stay here, all I am saying is what an Idiot and where is the Idiot "husband to be" that agreed to this?

 

OK Sorry Tuck, it wasn't airhead snob, it was a pretentious wanna-be Paris Hilton. MY BAD

LOL I like that post a lot and Good for you! Have to love the honesty and gutts.

 

Re: Meeting Women at The Gym

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Wow Pearl, it's sooo nice of you to have the cure for Black men that's been dealing with the ignorance of White America for years. Damn, it never fails to amaze me how the minute some white women get a taste of Black men, they feel that can say anything that want without being put in check for it.

First of all you got a lot of never trying to tell any Black man to get over himself ! Tell me along have you been a Black man ? Are you trying to say that some white women don't try to play mind or race games with black men because of the myth that all us brothers are lusting for white women ?

Tell you what Pearl, go tell your own white males to get over themselves first because your people collectively suffer from a disease called Entitlement: meaning white people, especially white men feel that they are entitled to dominate over people of color, just look at the Middle East as example of what happens when some whites stick their noses into other people affairs which by the way, they don't and never did give a rats azz about the people of the middle east.

So my suggest to you Pearl is this, go tell your own people first to get over themselves before you try to check a black man about a reality we deal with every damn day !

 

yes, Chigirl, i was referring to the lounge hounds and bar flies in Philly not Chicago since I dont know anything about Chicago

 

Seychelles, PearlGirl, Moskvichka, Eyvah

Excellent observations and advice. I will certainly apply them in my dating life.

Can share some examples of things guys have done to win your attention / heart or fail at it?

 

Hey sweetie. I enjoyed our chat the other day. I think you should consider psychology as your next career move since you're so good at analyzing people and sharing advice.

I have question for you. You've have read many of my posts. What do you think that they say about my personality?

I know that I've open a can of whoop ass, but I'll take my medicine like a man because it'll build up my character.

 

Shaft, it sounds like you came on a bit too strong with these women.

 

So I just spent half an hour typing a response to this thread and the website somehow lost my response. I am so pissed. Now thirty minutes of my life is gone :smt022

Anyhow, I will super summarize!

I was just saying that I agreed with Pearlgirl but her view was somewhat oversimplified. A black man's sexual encounter is almost never isolated from his race. A goodlooking white guy (so to speak) will be able to talk to women first. Eventually they evaluate other facets of his life (i.e wealth, views on life e.t.c). Some black men however don't even get that far because while white women may find them attractive on many levels, their skin color brings about an unnnecessary burden.

In short..BM get turned down sometimes not because the woman thinks they are inferior or lowly but simply because their skin color not very practical.

So how does a BM deal with dilemma of differentiating between the two reasons for rejection. In my opinion, you don't have to.

How come? Well, you eliminate the chances of being rejected. In a world where men are supposed to run after women, you flip the rule. You let women come to you and you do the picking.

This isn't really about saying how cool you are or what not. It is simply a tactical way to make an otherwise unfavorable situation pleasant.

When I say you let women come to you, I actually don't mean that you sit there and do nothing. You have to do a few things.

First, you do the things that make you comfortable (the things that make you feel good about yourself). Notice how this is all about you, not what anyone expects from you.

Secondly, you learn to have a fun without women (the ones that you are sexually or physically attractd to). There are lots of fun ridden, pleasure deriving activities that have no sexual/romantic inclinations. Get into these things. You will soon realize how happy you can be without a girlfriend,lover or sexual relations. Meeting good women is a like getting a bonus. It is an unexpected surprise that you don't spend your life running after.

So what do you do when you indeed meet a girl that you like. First of all, scratch the word "like". I usually can't like a girl until I get to know her. I prefer to say a girl that I am "curious about". Also remember that she is just one of the billions of girls you could have randomly met. Well, you continue to do whatever it is you are doing. If you then see a girl you are curious about, you send a playful smile in her direction. The smile is nothing serious. It is just a nonverbal expression that communicates your awareness of her presence. If she is also "aware of your presence" she will send a smile back in your direction.

Don't get ahead of yourself. Just continue whatever you are doing and then present her with another smile. If a woman is really "feeling your presence", you will be able to notice the increase in her nonverbal excitement as you continue the cylcle of doing what you are doing and then smiling her way. In this case you can walk up to her and say "hi, I am infiniti! how are you? or whatever you start a conversation with. If she tells you her name, great! if not, no big deal. I generally like to leave after saying something that makes the woman laugh. Leave before the ackwardness that occurs when two strangers meet. Basically leave her wanting in the conversation department. Now you know her! Once again don't get ahead of yourself. She may just be a nice person and nothing more. On the next several encounters, make sure you keep things light and slowly get to know her. I usually let the women determine the appropriate depth of the conversation. It's like playing chess. your move determines my move. Women also love this because you are actually observing them throughout the encounter!

So what if a woman doesn't really "acknowledge your presence". Well, you simply continue with whatever you are doing. You are nothing to her and she is nothing to you.

Also keep in mind that some women will respond in a way that you can't initially comprehend. for example, a shy girl might look away quickly, look down or just get really nervous. Don't push it. Just continue the cycle (smiling then doing whatever it is that brought you to the place and then smiling over and over again). You may have to leave and then continue on another day.

This approach (I hate to call it that because it is more like stuff you do while continuing with your life) assumes that women will be present on more than one occasion. As others mentioned, the "place" usually is a library, a bookstore, cafe, church e.t.c. It also assumes that you do the same thing to many women. It is not a commitment and there is nothing wrong with smiling at many people. All you are doing is nonverbally telling people that you acknowledge their presence.

In addition, you will realize that some women will just walk up to you immediately. If it is the woman you are curious about....great. If it isn't just be respectful (sometimes I even have a conversation) but then excuse yourself to the bathroom.

You are also meeting people that genuinely (on some level) want to meet you. It is like fishing. You cast a wide net into the ocean and work on analyzing your catch. The other fishes in the ocean (which aren't in your net because they choose to avoid it) are basically none of your bussiness. It's like listening to pure music without all the annoying background noise. You are meeting people that are responding to you naturally. The feeling of rejection occurs when you try to meet people that don't desire to meet you or vice veras. This approach filters that out. Everyone wins!

 

infiniti, this is some great advice!
It boils down to self-esteem and confidence. It's about coming into yourself and being comfortable and proud of who you are. That is then reflected in what your project to the world and makes you irrrrrresistible!!

Also, I agree that what I was saying was oversimplified.
It's just very hard to hear the same thing over and over again when in fact a man's race MAY have nothing to do with the fact that a woman is not interested. I am not saying it never happens and it is a challenge that I haven't experienced very much myself, I admit.

I think in the particular case of Shaft it's his approach that is all wrong in these girls' minds... not his skin colour! So I found it ridiculous that he would play the race card. That's all.

 

Re: The Wrong Approach

PearlGirl,

With all due respect to you, what difference in the world do you think my approach would have made if the two women I met at those clubs already felt from the on-set that they weren't attracted to me? As it is said, women, especially in the United States, already know whether or not they would respond positively to a guy before he even opens his mouth to talk to them. What difference would it have made if I used the best approach imaginable to talk to the white lady at they gym who I mentioned before if she already knows in her heart that she won't get with me no matter what I did? For goodness sake, what difference would it make? Would you guys be able to follow as many rules as those that you place upon men in this country?

You know, when all is said and done, I think I might as well just look for a good African or Caribbean woman to settle down with quietly. A shallow, flaky and superficial woman will always remain the same no matter what the approach to her may be. In a sense, I'm actually happy things didn't work out with those women in the end so that my heart wouldn't have been wounded.

It just seems to me that many American women (I'm not saying all) are unnecessarily complicated and have too many issues. When they meet a good man, they get confused and don't know what to do. "Oh, he's too nice, I need a man who can do this...I need a man who can do that." These are some of the things that really piss me off about American women. You guys set so many unrealistic expectations upon men that many of you can't fulfill yourselves. What the hell do you expect people to do?

-If a man were to stop and talk to you at a gym when you're working out on the machines, it will creep you out and he'll be "invading your space."

-A man shouldn't give a hint that he's interested in meeting women at gyms or clubs because you'll be able to sense his "desperation". As if every man who acts as if he's not interested in women gets a whole bunch of them flocking to him. Yeah, right. Sometimes if you don't try, you don't get anything.

-If a man gets a woman's phone number, he should wait for at least two days before he calls, otherwise he comes across as desperate, needy and clingy.

*He's too clingy
He came on too strong
He's too nice. I need adventure. Excitement. I need a man who can protect me...a shoulder to lean on.
Stop invading my space.
You're not my "type," (since we all have to fit into boxes and categories)
He's too skinny, nerdy and geeky.
Men shouldn't express their emotions. A sensitive man is a weak man.


How many more freakin rules do you guys expect men in America to follow? The dating game in this country just isn't balanced at all. There has to be fairness and equality. American women just have an unfairly disproportionate amount of power over men. What's the point even wasting my time trying to talk to American women at this point if this is the kind of crap I'm gonna have to keep dealing with at every turn?

You know what? I'm going to find myself a great African or Caribbean woman. Someone who understands that dating shouldn't be so unnecessarily complicated and whose culture is much similar to mine.

 

Re: The Wrong Approach

:lol:

Finally, the true man, the true African man emerges.

Well said, Shaft. Well said.

Word of caution: A lot of the African and Carribean women (here AND abroad) have adopted the ways of the American Dating Game. Could it be because of the rise of Super-feminism? Hmmm, but I digress...

 

Hi Lucifer,

I'm currently in the process of getting to know this one lady from Tanzania a bit better right now. We both attended the same university as undergraduate students, but she was taken then. She's single now and we got back in touch with each other. She seems to like me a lot, and all I ask for is someone willing to love me for who I am. We have good chemistry and she's thinking about coming over to visit me from Delaware before the summer's over. As far as I know, she's the kind of person who'll be cool with you as long as you respect her and treat her well. She's not a pushover, and she believes in equal rights in a relationship.

I'm thinking this might very well be my last day on this forum. I've really enjoyed communicating with several of you on here-Tucker, you, Lucifer, Nilan, Laydeezman Chris, etc., etc. The list is very long and I can't remember all the names. I'll miss you guys. For those of you who may wish to do so, you can keep in touch with me via my Yahoo email address listed under my screen name. I just strongly believe that it won't be appropriate for me to remain on this forum at this point, now that I have concluded it would be better for me to find a woman with whom I share a similar culture. I just don't think I personally click very well with either white or black American women. I don't have time to keep on dealing with all that unnecessary crap.

 

Hi Shaft. If a WW chooses not to give a chance to a BM because he's black, it's her loss. I'm sure many BM would be attracted to a WW if they even considered it for a moment, but they don't, out of various reasons, just like WW.

You are so right, everything is relative. The advices you got are mainly how the persons who posted them would like to be approached, or sometimes, the safest way to approach someone without risking too much in case of rejection. People are so diverse that the more advices you get the more confused you'll become. Do what feels natural to you/act how you feel most comfortable acting, you never know which woman likes exactly your style and is tired of "playing little games", as long as you are polite and nice. There's no universal recipe that goes for all women.

IF you talk to her? IF??????? You will talk to her. Because if she's so nice that it makes you post on a forum, it would be a shame not to try and at least you will know for sure, instead of wondering 'what would have happened if I had talked to that girl" and making scenarios.

All the things you said, introducing yourself, asking her out, telling her you find her very pretty, are absolutely necessary. Not too much/fast and not too little, thats all. Be yourself and make her feel comfortable around you. After all, just because she's very pretty and has men's attention doesnt mean she is vain, superficial and not a nice, intelligent and deep woman. Or because she goes to the gym to work out.
Still, that flirty reciprocical teasing first stage when you meet someone has its charm and fun to a certain extent too, don't you think?

 

Hey Shaft,
Don't get too discouraged.....Even though it seems as if women have the power in the dating game:

1. They have an even harder time (believe it or not) finding a good man because the number of men in the world vs. women is very disproportionate favoring men 8). Especially when you consider the factors that make men desirable and attractive such as honesty, character, good-looks 8) , ability to be self-sufficient, etc. When you factor these in, that number is even lower. There will ALWAYS be more women who have never married (or had kids) than men. This dynamic appears in all ethnic groups so take advantage of that.

2. Like Tuck and others have emphasized, change the places that you frequent to find women, but don't make it obvious that you are looking for a woman. There are lots (AND I DO MEAN LOTS) of women who do not run game on you and just want a decent man. These are usually PRETTY women who are ignored because they don't fit society's standard of beauty. From the way it sounds in your posts, it seems that you may be only going after girls who are rated extremely high on the physical attractiveness meter. Correct me if I am wrong.....but it is not that hard finding a decent woman bro., you just have to go to more conservative places.

 

Fare thee well, Shaft. Do what you must and take care of yourself.