Why Do American Women Keep Doing This?

brilliant, and shaft make sure you meet an intelligent woman like Rose. there are smart women who may come to cocktails at a bar or club but they will not hang out there to pick up men, not the real good women.

garden, bike, hike, kayak, join a nonprofit and help raise money, jog, get a pet and go to the park--excellent to meet nice women, teach a language, join ultimate frisbee or kickball team, work for a local political campaign or social justice group, take a cooking class, join a health club

 

These are real words of wisdom here!!

Shaft... (and every other guy out there....) listen to Tuck... he's right about almost everything here!
(Although good women can be in clubs too... they just aren't the type who "hang" there all the time! 8) )

Good luck

 

Hey Shaft, i really enjoy reading what you have to say. I like hearing about all of your experiences and things. It's really interesting and i completely know where you're coming from with a lot of this. I wish that i could give you some advice with dating, but i'm not very good at the dating scene either, seeing as though i don't ask girls out, ever. Just like you said, women do have waaaaaaay too much power when it comes to dating, and it just seems like too big of a risk for me to take (there's nothing more embarrassing than being rejected by a woman), so i'd rather take my chances meeting somebody through a mutual aquaintance or family member, or through the church (where i actually haven't been in a good while anyways). Some may think that my little approach to dating is really screwed up (i.e. i'm a great big chicken), but when i look at my older brother and how he NEVER approached girls for dates but ALWAYS had girlfriends (and really good looking ones at that) i dunno know that my approach is really that bad after all. It just might work. I'm almost 100 percent certain that i'll meet somebody of quality one day. It may take a little longer than i expected, but if i can meet somebody of real quality, and avoid all of that superficiality like you say, i definitely think that the wait will be worthwhile. :wink:

 

Use your assets to your advantage

Shaft, I agree with your arguments because they also apply to women here in Canada too.

A few points I'd like to add:

1) Don't go into situations expecting to get women or base on your fun on that outcome. If you do, it will show and you'll appear desperate and needy. That way, you're won't leave feeling disappointed or shortchanged.

Ego drives many women because they want to feel desirable even at the expense of your feelings. Also, they want what they can't have or is hard to get. And if you ignore them (up to a point) or slowly show them attention, then you'll get their interest. Plus, you're not treating them like most other men which intrigues them.

2) Make a conscious decision to have fun without female attention. If you do, trust me you'll draw them like queen bees to honey. You'll be fighting them off.

Pleasant, fun-loving, easy-going, positive people always seem to draw crowds that follow them wherever they go. There's something confident about this type of person that people can't resist. It can make women look twice at someone they didn't initially find attractive.

If I go to a club, then I'll always go with one that will play Hip Hop, R & B, or just plain danceable music. It gets me in such a groove that I can dance the night away and not have to socialize if I don't want to.

3) Target the events, activities and clubs that interest both you and your type of woman. The goal is not to just get a good woman, but one who also suits your unique style. So, you'll need to decide the type of a woman you want before do this suggestion.

For example, if you enjoy doing fitness and want a woman who does the same, then join a gym or exercise class. If you're the more studious type, then a library or bookstore may fit the bill. Attending church to find a woman is a good idea, but only if you're religious or trying to attract that type of women. Going back to my first point, if you go there only to pick up, you'll turn off women off because you'll come across as false.

The main point is to place yourself in situations that are natural and enjoyable to you so that I can use your assets to your advantage. Then, you'll make yourself more confident and attractive to women.

 

The dating sites really suck for guys my age. For more seasoned adults it might actually work, but for people my age, I think people just put their pictures and profiles up to see what kind of responses they get because none of them ever actually subscribe to the site, and i hate it when they send those dang-on flirt messages over and over again. That get's really annoying. :roll:

 

"Alot not of these foreign women just want a free pass to America of course they are going to be extra nice."

this is exactly why the rest of the world gets pissed off so often about Americans.

I can't believe you could be so arrogant to think that most foreign women would be extra nice to you to get a free pass to america!!!
what the hell.

Not every person who is not an american is POOR. (by the way, America is one of the highest scoring western country's if it comes to poverty. Where I live its even impossible to be as poor as some people in american ghetto's unless your an illegal citizen or something)

Not every person who is not living in America wants to live in America.
in fact most of them DON'T!

you need to open your eyes. Its overly hilarious how Americans always think that everybody sees them as some kind of gods.

But you guys seem to live in the right country: just go and find you wifes at the church or at a tupperware party. the ones who hang out at clubs are all evil :twisted: anyway. Man I would be scared as hell if a guy would buy me a drink, ask my phone number and wanted to dance with me within 5 minutes.

GRRR. I was so happy today, because i just heard i got into medical school. Read this and totally ruined my mood :x

 

Thanks a Million

Wow...guys, I'm so overwhelmed by the number of responses and the helpful advice that I've gotten so far through this post. I wish I had discovered this forum earlier on in my life. Thanks to you all for your feedback. You know, although I've been living in the U.S. for 8 years, I still have a lot to learn (and I'm still trying to learn a lot) about the culture. In a sense, I have still been living like a fish out of water. This is just to explain some of my mistakes such as the experience I had with the flaky woman at that club in King of Prussia. To the lady who said I came on too strong with the women I mentioned in my post, I'm not trying to disagree with you. I must have made a mistake and that probably wasn't the right thing to do, but sometimes when your emotions are hurt...it happens. Yes, it was silly for me to have bought her a drink. But put yourself in my shoes for a moment.

Perhaps part of the problem might might also be that I have tended to frequent the spots many of my friends have been going to since my undergraduate days in college. As you all know, your friends can influence both you and your tastes tremendously. Furthermore, I have only been driving for a year and a half. I used to depend on public transportation to get around the city for the past several years and most of the trains and buses stop running early at night. So I have a whole lot of exploring to do. To this day, I still have friends who think hanging out means they should spend every weekend or every other weekend in Old City bars and lounges. Many weekends, I have left Old City feeling very disappointed when I see the number of women getting so drunk that they can barely walk...and one time I was so embarrassed...I saw a guy having sex with a woman on the floor of a parking lot. And it was well-lit. I used to say to myself oten times: "Why in the world am I hanging around these people?"

I have certainly learned from many of my mistakes, which is why I admitted in the first part of this post that I would never offer to buy a drink unless I felt a woman and I had some really, great chemistry.

Many people say college is the best place to meet a decent woman and I don't disagree with that...the problem is I unfortunately haven't had the best experiences with my attempts in college either. What do you do if you're one of a few, black men attending a predominantly white, Catholic (and private) university where most white female students either don't think you deserve their time or believe you're not their equal? What do you do when you meet American black women who also think you're inferior to them because you're African? Not too many people have had such unfortunate dating experiences as I, although I do admit now, after reading your suggestions, that I must have been looking for love in the wrong places. I definitely need to start exploring and discovering the other areas you guys have suggested.

I agree with those who suggested that if you find yourself at a club or bar, you shouldn't give off a vibe that you're needy or desperate. I've seen it myself in those superficial clubs. There have been a few times where a group of women seeking attention have been on the dance floor right next to me and I haven't said a word or even looked at any of them. It seemed to pay off because they kept on looking at me as if to say indirectly "How come this dude doesn't seem to be interested in us when we're turning so many guys down? Doesn't he think we're hot?" It appears as if it also kinda gets you noticed when you have a muscular body. I reunited with a former classmate who came in with his girlfriend and as they stood by the dance floor, she just kept on staring at me...perhaps upon noticing those biceps. I'm not one to blow my own trumpet and I believe in being humble, but I've definitely noticed some kind of a change ever since I started working out.

 

and by the way, what kind of BS is it anyway to say that women who go out (to clubs/bars) don't have any substance or are dumb.

such a huge generalisation and I never experienced anything like that before (I go out as well and meet a lot of fun and interesting and genuine people aswell as dumb people) unless going clubbing is totally different in Europe....

 

Re: Meeting Women at The Gym

Some of you have suggested that gyms are good places to meet people. I don't disagree with that, but for some reason, I find it hard. It seems to me that gym environments aren't always favorable toward people who want to meet others. I do attend a gym three days a week, and there are some really lovely ladies in there...but being the shy guy that I am, I'm just not sure how to approach them. For instance, there are many women in gyms who do nothing but cardio-they run on tread mills for hours and then live. They don't talk to anyone and don't give off a vibe that they are interested in talking to anybody. Only a handful of them use the machines and free weights.

There are two women at my gym so far who I would like to talk to...I find them quite attractive, but I never really had a chance to do so. I got a chance to say hi to one of them some time last month in the parking lot on my way out of the gym. She's a white lady, tall and slender with long legs and amazing shoulders. I'm usually not into skinny women, but this lady has a really wonderful body. I'd say she's at the most 24-25. When she walks, you can just see her ass shaking...plop, plop, plop. lol. I think this particular woman knows I would like to talk to her, so the few times when she sees me, she makes sure that we don't have any eye contact. I had tried to see if I could ask her to excuse me for a moment so I could talk to her one time when she was walking in my direction while I was using the triceps machine. I think she sensed it, so she immediately looked away. The last time I saw her was yesterday, but we were no where near each other. She left the treadmill area at some point yesterday and came over to the free weight section to do squats, but I thought it would be the wrong approach for me to leave my machine and walk up to her when she was doing her squats. After all, I think she's noticed me already and figures I want to talk to her, so I don't want her thinking I'm a stalker. At this point, I'm thinking I should just forget about trying to talk to her. What do you guys think? From observation, she strikes me as one of those women who think they are extremely hot and who might think she's too good for a black man and might enjoy the "thrill" of shooting a black man down. I'm thinking now that she probably expects me to try talking to her, I may just as well ignore her completely. Trying to talk to her might be risky for me, because I'm starting to think that she already may not be feeling very comfortable seeing me around her. I don't want any trouble.

The second lady is biracial. She seems to get a lot of attention from most guys at the gym...almost every black guy there stops to talk to her when she's working out on the machines. I'm one of the few guys who doesn't. I noticed her watching me from a distance yesterday. I would like to say hi to her some time, but I'm not sure what would be the right approach. I guess the ladies on this forum could give me some pointers. What do you consider to be the right approach for a man at a gym to do if he finds you attractive? I don't want any woman to suddenly start complaining that "I'm invading her space" if I were to stop and introduce myself to her while she's working out on one of the machines.

I have to say...some of the things these so-called thuggish black guys do really embarrass me sometimes. There used to be a white lady who worked out at my gym frequently within the past several months. Those guys just never ever gave her much of a chance to work out. Each time she was on any of the machines, there were at least 3-5 black men with baggy, white or black T-shirts standing right behind her trying to talk to her. They all noticed that out of all the white ladies there, she, in their opinion, had the biggest behind. So wherever she went in the gym, they would follow. I had once thought about talking to her (I got a chance to introduce myself to her once), but when I noticed the extent at which guys were fighting for her, I decided not to consider making a move on her anymore. Once in a while, I also used to get this look of surprise from her as if she were wondering why I wasn't speaking to her or seeking her attention like most of the black guys at my gym. I don't see her anymore. Maybe she eventually decided to stop going there.

 

What I meant was when I wrote that was that alot not all I left they part out, bad sentence structure on my past, I was not generalizing foreign women,But you gotta admit alot do. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Never did I mention that these women where from poor countries. Also I did not purport myself or Americans as godly who is doing the generalizing now?

 

Hmmm.......I get what you're saying Eyvah. Actually, I'm glad someone finally said it.

 

Thanks Eyvah. The last time I went to a club, I ended up having coffee with a married guy from Long Island (he went out because the baby's crying was driving him crazy), and we ended up talking about jobs and property taxes on Long Island :lol: . Very far from any risky behaviour.

So girls! Somebody tell me - what is a woman SUPPOSED to do nowadays?

It starts in early adolescence. We are now supposed to look a certain way (like in the Seventeen magazine). If we don't - we're not approved.

We're not supposed to club and party, much less have sexual partners - but yet we're supposed to find a husband/significant other by our mid-twenties. How? Back in the day a man came to your parents asking for your hand, right? Today, we're on our own. So... how are we supposed to do it?

Moreover: you're supposed to meet a "good" man - one who is well-off, of your own ethnic background, from a good family, tall and handsome with a bright smile. Again, you're supposed to meet him while sitting at home. At most, you can meet him in church or at a community function. If you meet any other kind of man, or any other way - you're delinquent.

Now: you're supposed to have very few sexual partners before you get married. But, you must be proficient in sex and have multiple orgasms. If you don't - you're delinquent.

You're supposed to land yourself a great job, take care of the house, have your kids by the age of thirty, take care of your husband - and the whole time continue looking like a twenty-year-old AND NEVER ONCE SAY A MEAN WORD TO A SOUL. You must be all smiles from the time you're born to the moment of your death.

How, folks? :? I met my husband through the old method of trial and error, and yeah I've been in bed with a few.

I was talking with one of my American friends the other day. She told me how, when she was getting her hair braided, she was talking with the two Senegalese girls who were doing the braiding. One was in her early twenties but married with a child, the other was nineteen and the other girl jokingly said, yeah she has two more years yet.

My friend, who is 26, childless and unattached, got depressed...

I told her, don't worry. Their society is entirely different from yours. Don't harass your own mind, because society is not offering you any help. Just dictating what you supposedly HAVE TO DO.

 

Re: Meeting Women at The Gym

Oh my God... Shaft, Shaft, Shaft...
This girl has no interest in you. She has made that quite clear. If she is constantly trying to AVOID eye contact with you, she does not want to talk to you. If she did want you to talk to her, I am pretty sure that you would know... she would have made it quite clear with a gaze and/or a smile.

BUT...here's the part I have a problem with:

What the hell is this all about??

It is not the first time that a BM states something of this nature on this board and quite frankly it is old news and quite annoying. (So my comment here is not only directed at you Shaft.) Why in the world would you AUTOMATICALLY jump to that conclusion?! True, I have no idea what it is like to be a black man in this world, but holy cow guys... you have to get over yourselves!!! I mean, just for a second... let's think of some of the other reasons why this woman might not be giving Shaft the "ok" to talk to her...
-Maybe she's in a relationship already.
-Maybe she just got out of a relationship and does not want to date.
-Maybe she's a lesbian.
-Maybe she's leaving the country next week and does not want to start a relationship.
-Maybe she lived a traumatic experience and does not want to start a relationship.
-Maybe she's crazy.
-Maybe she's waiting for Brad Pitt to dump Angelina.
-Maybe she's a recovering alcoholic and does not want to drag anyone in her misery.
-Maybe her therapist suggested she not date for a while.
-Maybe she's a nun.
-Maybe she only dates midgets.
-Maybe she's not into tall/short/buff/lean men.
-Maybe she just does not want to get involved with someone at the gym because it's her sactuary where she goes for time alone and to escape from the world and does not want to meet anyone there in case things go wrong (which is something that I shoud have taken into consideration a while ago... but this is not about me..)
-Or maybe, just maybe Shaft is just an ugly guy.

Oh and of course... maybe she's just a crazy-card-carying KKK member!!!

But I mean, come on!! I am sooooo sick of reading about you guys automatically assuming that if a woman is not into you, well it must be because you're black! It must be because she enjoys being a bitch to black men. It must be because she thinks she's superior. Guess what?? The world does not revolve around you or your skin colour!!

(OK.. ok... my rant is done on this.... I will sit back and brace myself for the downpour of hateful replies from the BM here!)

On with the other girl...

Now, this woman seems to be giving you a signal that she's open to be approached. If you decide to do so, I would suggest that you do so in a casual way. If you don't want to "invade her space", try being more friendly about your approach and take your cues from her reaction. You could try a "gym" or "workout" related comment. That way if she's really not into you, you won't look like a fool at all... you'll just come across as a friendly guy - which is fine. But if you sense that she's not into you... drop it after that. Just smile at her when you see her and move on.

That's my offical advice.
[/quote]

 

shaft, you know I love you man. You are a cool brotha from the motherland who is educated and living in the same city as I, but I have to give you some advice that might help you.

please, stop judging how good the women are based on the way their physical bodies look. This will help you put things into perspective that a girl with a nice azz is not necessarily a nice, good person. you seem to always point out her assets, but dont talk about her character, how nice she acts to people in the gym. Does she say hello and smile to all people when she walks in the room? Is she helpful with others? these are essentials to judging good character of the person, not whether her butt giggles. Like the woman at the bar who doesnt know you but accepts a $10 drink, you didnt get to know who she is and what her values are before you were showering her with expensive gift of a drink. many women get that and they dont have respect for or really want to get to know the guy. a nice girl would first want to get to know you before accepting a drink from a stranger. a nice woman would be smiling, laughing at your jokes, happy to be around you and you can tell by her body language(not her body shape). and she would be interested in buying you a drink also, to share the cost.

this is the proper way of meeting someone, not going to a gym or bar or other place just to pick up women. from past experience, i can tell you of places where you can go to just pick up women for ONE thing. But if you want to meet a good woman for lasting relationships, you may find one in a lounge, but man you have to go slow. dont have high expectations, slw down, be cool, dont try to make her dance with you, dont get angry being rejected by many women, the good ones will come.

good things come to those who wait!!!

laugh more, dont be so serious. understand the population of your city. Catholic girls here are more working class and they have been taught to only date other catholics. Jewish girls are more open minded but many of them only date jewish men. women from Temple are more down to earth, but as you are now a professional out of school or in grad school you should be looking for more women your age. there are tons of schools in this area. also, try the shore(wildwood this summer). also, DC adn NYC are great places to meet women, so is taking a road trip to places like Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Scranton and Baltimore, to meet more and diverse women. you are too young to be limiting yourself.

and there are many many nice latina, asian, black and biracial women in this town and else where, so dont just choose white women if they are not panning out. philly is not a great place to meet women for a large number of educated black men as it is much more of a working class city

 

I think PearlGirl already gave you the best reply/advice from a woman's perspective. We're women, we know women.

 

Re:

Thanks so much again, guys. When I read each of your suggestions, I really wonder in what world I've been living in for all these years here in Philly. Searching for love in the wrong places, probably looking for the wrong things in potential mates, etc. I am really humbled and being a real man implies taking responsibility for your actions and acknowledging mistakes. I certainly do appreciate intelligence and a good personality in a woman, but I must admit that I've had a big weakness for women who tend to be incredibly curvaceous with big behinds, etc. Looking back, and also thanks to your feedback, I'm beginning to realize that this weakness has undoubtedly played a great role in steering me toward the wrong direction. While I'm sure that there are great, intelligent and open-minded women with big booties out there, most of the ones I've met have tended to be really arrogant and condescending...filled with really bad attitudes. I have rarely come across such women in book stores or at museums and intellectual-type places. Most of them, especially here in Philly, seemed to be more interested in walking around for hours on city streets and crowded areas like malls, places where guys could honk at them and of course, not to forget clubs, where they could dress and dance provocatively.

I really have to learn to accept that you can't get everything you want in life. You may eventually find the right woman, but her booty may not be as big as Jennifer Lopez's or Trina's. (Trina is a rapper, for those of you who may not know) Why would you reject her just because of that if you guys seem to match in every other domain? Most of my biggest disappointments in terms of my attempts at dating have come from the so-called big booty ladies.

I definitely need to explore different areas to hang out. I've never really been that much of an adventurous person, but to meet the right woman, I certainly need to start seeking out different places. I feel so bad when I return home most Saturdays late at night and my roommate asks me if I finally hooked up with someone...and then I have to tell him "no" once again, and come up with possible explanations why that didn't happen. It's not easy being single and not being intimate with anyone for 8 straight years, folks.

Going back to the biracial lady at my gym, (I'm sure the guys could be helpful here, but I have no doubt that the ladies' input in this case would definitely be valuable) if I introduced myself to her for the first time and it seems as if we're having a good conversation, would it be ok for me to ask her if she'd like to get together for drinks or lunch sometime or do I just keep it casual and light? (afterall it would be the first introduction and I don't want her to conclude I came on too strong) I was thinking about saying that I had noticed her working out from time to time but never got a chance to say hi, and that I think she's very pretty.

 

well good luck bro., i dont think ya hearing me but maybe some of the others can be of better help. i just think you are not getting the fact that as you mature, picking a woman based on looks more than her being a nice person and good woman is just going to be more real than the superficial looks of big booty and the way they dress.

but you do what you like

 

On a Lighter Note...

On a lighter note, have any of you folks been able to take some wild guesses about people's personalities on the basis of how they write on here? For example, in my case, I hope it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone on here that I love to write or that I major in Journalism and dream about getting a novel published someday. Writing on here is also giving me a good opportunity to redevelop the habit, as I haven't been writing for any publications in a while. It's funny...folks in another forum I used to participate in called me long-handed. People were always like: "Yikes! Here we go again." I admire you guys for being able to read the entirety of my posts, most of which end up being quite long, albeit unintentionally. I always used to get in trouble with my teachers from an early age for giving more information and writing more than was necessary in my English Literature courses. I took a free, IQ course recently, and based on my score, it said I was a "Verbal Warrior," someone who seems to use words to tremendous effect.

 

Shaft

- why introduce yourself at this point?

- no

- no

- no

-yes

Don't plan ahead.
But also don't hurry into asking her out/telling her for how long you have built up your courage to talk to her/she is very pretty, the thing pretty girls hate the most because they hear it ALL the time and it puts you in the same pool with the other 100 guys who told her that :arrow: nothing special, she'll say ty and thats it. I think you have a better chance of making yourself more interesting by not revealing a lot while also showing you like her, in a friendly way........ :?:

My opinion.

YESSSSS he he he

 

it is funny what you wrote pearlgirl, so right in many ways.

what I find funny also it that all these magazines and tv shows about how women cant find the "Right" guy. how to meet Mr "Right", men are dogs, No good men left etc.

But the first time we talk about whats wrong with women we have the problem and it must be us with big egos, thats funny