White women are weak...

One thing I've heard a few times is that ww don't have what it takes to be a strong, supportive mate for bm, don't have the guts to be strong role model for their children and don't discipline them strongly. There are several prominent biracial individuals who have had tremendous success in there respective careers (Derek Jeter, Barack Obama, Halle Berry, Alicia Keys, Rod Woodson, etc.) and they wouldn't have achieved success without their white mothers doing something right. Brothas need to remind themselves that if your looking for a woman with sex appeal, intelligence, stability, and good mother/wife material, a ww can give you all that and then some!

 

Well that would of course be complete and utter bullshit!

I think there are some really good examples of strong white women on this board

Raising children well does not mean that one needs to be heavy handed.

 

another myth! if this was the case then I wouldnt find WW attractive at all. To me there's nothing more unattractive than a woman who is too scared to stand up for herself...regardless of race.

 

I respond to other peoples thread and I get two people to respond to mine. Whatever......poor pathetic white girl me!! I don't think I fit into the category of weak white woman. I am going on a 6 year cancer survivor. I was kicked out of my home at 18, got pregnant and had a beautiful daughter. I have managed to still live the way I did when I was young.....so I must be doing something right. I have never really worked hard a single day in my 21 yr. old life. But I am raising a child, and I cook and clean and take care of my home. I plan on pursuing a college education, and attaining a good career in the medical field. I figure the only way to do that is depend on myself. I will be doing something like this for the first time ever, but I know that I am strong and that I will be successful. It doesn't matter whether you are black white or purple, but it is all about the motivation you have as an individual. Weak in what way? The way one disciplines their child is up to the person. I choose not to spank my daughter. Does my bm (Bf) support that? Umm, he says that sometimes there is no other way. I believe that is pure bull. Discipline can be done without the violence of hitting or spanking. How is that really solving the problem? I will always talk to my child. I think spanking is pure and utterly unnecessary. But that INMHO.

 

I'm going to have to side with your bf on this. I firmly believe in "spankings", "whippins", whatever you want to call it. Mind you, I was BEAT as a child, yet I still understand the value of firm chastisment when necessary. I grew up on a family where if your parents weren't around, your Aunts or Uncles would kick your ass and if they weren't around, some older cousins would. Because of that, we have some pretty damn mannerable kids in the family. However, to each his own.

I don't believe ww are weak at all. Are there differences in culture? Oftentimes, yes. You can be subtle, yet firm. Feminine yet strong. I think it's all how people perceive things. I personally don't like a fire-breathing woman. Probably because I have an aggressive nature, I need someone to calm the beast. :wink:

 

Spanking is a terrible way to raise a child. All research tells there's noting good about it as well. It's just an easy instant solution. It teaches the child nothing but fear of the parents' hands.

However even though you and me (both ww) wouldn't do it, it doesn't have to do with being black/white. As me and my BF started dating, I at one time tried to misguide him into saying he's pro-spanking. (The converstaion went something like this:
-what do you think of physical disciplin?
-I don't like it
-why not, it'll give you a fast respond?
I'll never forget how shocked he looked, and less than a week later I had my mailbox full of articles about how bad this is, and ways to raise children without turning to violence.

(And this is one of the many reasons why I love him sooo much :smt060 )

BTW: I know more examples of kids who've been beaten, who have turned out bad, than children who haven't.

Good luck with your studies

 

Sorry, I have to agree with Intrigue on this one. I whoop my kids and they are extremely well behaved. I was blessed with awesome children and most of the credit goes to God but I give myself a little bit. I have seen too many kids acting like straight fools and I know good and well if that kids got a good ass whoopen, it would clear everything up. I think it also depends on the child. My youngest son is hard headed, stubborn. He needs his butt beat some times. My older son is more laid back and cautious. I can usually talk to him and he understands what he did wrong and why he's in trouble. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't whoop one and not the other but I treat every situation differently. Sometimes grounding them is enough, other times they need a little fire under their asses. It just depends. For people to say spanking is abuse is ridiculous. It depends on the parent. I wouldn't beat my kids with an extention cord like my husband had done to him but I'll use the belt. After they get so old, your hand makes them laugh, something else is necessary. I understand it puts fear in my children and that's fine with me. They should fear me at times. If they mess up and they know they are doing it, what's going to stop them from doing it again? A good lecture, talking to? Don't think so. That kid will say "well, all I'm going to get is lectured so lets do it again". Everyone does their own thing and people have mixed opinions about spanking. As long as they aren't being abused, I don't have a problem with it. My husband has told me one of the things that has always attracted him to me is my strength and independence. (I'm not saying that because I whoop my kids that I am strong) I was prepared to spend the rest of my life raising my sons, alone, and had no problem with that. I believe you never know how strong you are until you have to use that strength. My ex used to beat me and when I was 6 mos prego w/our 2nd son, I left him with no job, no money, not even diapers for my older son. It took every bit of strength in me because I loved him so much. It was so hard to leave but I looked at my sons and thought "I don't want them growing up like this". That is not how life is supposed to go for me. I've never looked back. One of my favorite quotes was said by Gandhi:

"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will".

I believe my will to mother my children properly and will to live without abuse was so great that I had to leave. You have to know that whatever comes your way, you can handle it!

 

Oh my.... I can't believe what I'm reading :shock:

Well, fortunately any kind of physical punnishment is illegal here. That doesn't mean it never happens, but it's not common and those who are caught doing it get in serious trouble with the child welfare...

 

Well, obviously things are very different in your country then in the US. Wait until you have kids and they get a little older and you'll understand why some people spank their kids. I'm surprised a lot more people on here aren't agreeing. I'm sure they do and are just afraid to say it. Most of the people I know believe in spanking their kids. I got spanked and I'm perfectly fine. Don't be so shocked, it happens a lot more than you think. And yes, there is always child welfare but I'm not bruising my children or beating them senseless. As a matter of fact, both of my kids teachers, at school, know they get spanked because we've talked about it at conferences and such. They spank their kids too. It's not at all uncommon.

 

I'm not afraid to say it, I just don't want to spend time defending or explaining it. It's one of those subjects that people seem to be polarized over, discussions get heated, and no one ever meets in the middle and just walk away mad.

My daughter is 11, she's been spanked about 5 times total. I don't regret it, I would do it again, and it's not even in the same realm as child abuse. Actually, she got mad at me once and accused me of child abuse, not b/c I've spanked her, but b/c I make her clean the bathroom!!

The government needs to stay out of the home, among many other places.

 

I agree fnny, completely.

 

Sorry, I don't think I'll ever understand why someone would spank their kid. The idea of putting my hands on anyone is just absurd.

Noone deserves to be hit- men, women or children....they just don't. You earn respect by showing respect. And being a parent you're supposed to be a rolemodel. What kind of example is it really setting when mum or dad turns to violence when angry... (Cause hitting is violence even if it doesn't leave bruises).

Your story is very typical though. You got beaten, and you "turned out fine", so you automatically raise your children the same way. However through my work I've already seen too many examples of beaten children who don't turn out fine for me to ever aplaud that kind of punishment.

 

A spanking is not a beating. Have you ever been slapped on your ass and it stings? It probably got your attention and the sting was gone in 5 minutes.

I understand and respect your opinion Ronja, but there is a distinction b/t beating and spanking here.

Aaarggh, I shouldn't have posted on this thread! I am officially not coming back and checking in on this one, Ill go crazy! :wink:

 

I agree. Let's end it before someones feelings get hurt

 

I'm sorry to keep this going, but I'm pretty shocked here.
Ronja, I love you like a play-cousin, I really do. You are so sensible. However, your position on spanking is really shocking. I think it's absolutely sad that some people (not referring to you) think they can read a magazine or book in order to learn how to raise a child. That's ludicrous. I was listening to the radio and they were advertising a program to show you how to make your child listen to you. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! :? My mom, or aunts, or uncles only needed to look at me and I straightened up. There's no back-talk in my family, there are consequences for that. Because of that, my cousins and other family members have a DEEP respect for our elders and other people outside our family.

My people - I'm talking about my peers, my generation of AA people - have lost that sense of discipline. Look at how disrespectful these kids are nowadays, how inconsiderate. We've lost that firm family structure and for black folk, discipline by "spankings" is the root of that. Now look us. :cry:

I'll be damned if I'm in a store and my son acts up and not listens. You think I'm gonna say "time-out"? That's hillarious...no, I'm gonna look at him because he knows that a firm ass whuppin is in the wings if he doesn't act like the gentleman I raised him to be. Because of that, my son is always shocked to see other kids acting like fools in public. That's because he learned as a baby that I'M THE PARENT AND HE'S THE CHILD.

I will not criticize anyone elses style of raising their kids, but anyone who questions "spankings" worries me.

I LOVE YOU RONJA! DON'T BE PISSED, WE ALL LOVE YOU!! :lol:

 

THough I rarely got spanked, when I did it's because I did something stupid and deserved it. When I really did something dumb, my dad just all out whipped my ass. Do realize that my dad and I are very tight. As I've gotten older, I appreciated what my mom did for me as well. If not, I'd probably be even crazier than I am now. :lol:

Well either that or wearing an orange jump suit behind bars or even worse....
SIX FEET DEEP.

Now although I'll be 26 next month and my parents and I live on oppostie ends of the country, if I do semething retarted, my parents will hop on a plain to the west coast and give me a well deserved ass whoopin.

When childern get out of line, they need to have a foot attached to that ass.

 

I love you too Intriguedone, and I'm not pissed :smt058

In my family, we can all just look at the children to straighten them up too, and none uf us have ever been spanked. My dad can still just give me a look and make me feel like a 5 year old. And I don't believe he's ever even raised his voice to any of us. The hardest punnishment I've ever gotten is being send to my room, and that was for nicking coins in my mum's purse!

I promise, we were no better (or worse) behaved than any other normal children.

If you set your standard of punnishment to "hard" (for instance, if the standard is sending the kid to the room, for playing with it's food during meals) then of course you'll have to find something even harder when the kid does something serious, like nicking coins.

Little children will do anything to please their parents (unless they only get attention for disbehaviour), and it's in the early childhood you set the standrad. If you're able to be authoritative when they're young, without just turning to different levels of screaming, even a "mild" punnsihment will later be experienced as hard- simply because it's the hardest punnishment the kid has ever recieved.

It's mostly about fighting the right battles. For minor issues, like younger kids playing with food, you can praise them when they're eating nicely instead of scolding them when they don't.

You say AA kids are disrespectful and inconsiderate. Yes, it probably is partially because of lack of a firm family structure as you say, but it's certainly not because of lack of spanking. If you're able to be authoritative the child will respect you wether it's being spanked or not.

 

It's probably really stupid of me to get into this conversation. I know how this usually goes.

And Intrique - I'm going to worry you here!

The thing that really concerns me about spanking and the like is that so often the parents are not taking the time that they should be to invest in teaching themselves. They aren't taking a look at the child's development. They aren't taking a look at their own actions. I mean when mom drags a child all over town running errands not making sure the child has eaten or slept...and then they throw a tantrum in the store - hmmm is it really the child's fault?

When I see a child acting up in a store I would bet most times it is not the child but the parents who are at fault. Whether it's lack of making sure the child is taken care of so that they are able to be in the store appropriately, lack of consistency, or whatever. I mean there are plenty of parents out there who tell their kids no but they don't really mean no. The child learns that the parent isn't consistent and if they just pitch a fit they will get what they want. A spanking doesn't change that...that's about the parent and them needing to get straight with things.

I just wonder how often people are taking a look at logical consequences. What are you spanking this child for? Most often it seems that spankings are a reactionary thing.

I just can never get the idea of how it's not ok for a man to hit a woman or a woman to hit a man but somehow it's ok for grown ups to hit a child. Do people not get that by hitting a child they are teaching that child that it's ok to hit another person?

The comment about looking at a child and them straightening up - first that has NOTHING to do with a child actually listening...that means they've learned how to straighten up, that's all. I can tell you with certainty that one does not need to spank to achieve a child straightening up or having a child listen to them.

Here's a little tidbit to maybe think about....maybe just maybe it's more to do with lack of consistency than it is lack of spanking....that has changed things in our society. Oh that and also parents feeling all guilty for whatever they feel guilty for and not telling their children no.

Being proactive may just get one much further than being reactive.

 

I know Intrigue claimed he didn't mean this for you but......from what it sounds like you have been reading a bunch of books. You make so much reference to when to praise and spank your child, it sounds as if you speak from experience.........

Exactly, so what' next. When you've already, put them in time out, put them in the corner, lectured them, grounded them, taken away toys, talked to them, what else is there to do?

Not sure where the "different levels of screaming" was brought into this but again, how do you be authoritative to a baby? How is a 1 yr old going to understand you saying "now don't do that". They aren't, but they do understand when you pop their hand. They don't like it and they know that what they've done is wrong or not to be done. They don't understand what "no" means until you show them. No means, don't do that or you can't touch this or that. I'm not going to sit there for 5 hours nicely moving my childs hand away from the glass and saying "no" in a nice calm voice. That kid will sit there all day and start to think it's funny after a while.

Fighting the right battles is for a husband/wife scenario, not parent/kids. Yes, you can praise them for being good and that's wonderful but how is that going to stop them from being naughty? The kid will think, "I get good things when I eat good but I get nothing when I act up". So what is there to stop them from acting up? Nothing! They may not get the praise but they don't get punished either. When you are a parent, you can't let certain battles go b/c you don't feel like it's not important enough to argue about, like you would in a relationship. Every battle is important when you are dealing with a child.

I agree with the lack of a firm family structure in some cases, but how can you say it's not from a lack of spanking? How do you know this? I say they need spanked and attention. This goes for white families too, not just black. Most of the kids I see act up are running around all day doing whatever they want. Not respecting anyone, parents are off partying or hanging out and are too busy with their own lives to parent the correct way.

Not all kids are afraid of a look! Not every child cares that you are giving them a dirty look, they'll look at you and laugh. You father had to have done something for that "look" to scare you so much. Mine are afraid of a look b/c they know what else is there. It sounds to me like your vision of a person that spanks there kids is a screaming maniac beating the shit out of their kids. Well, not everyone who spanks their kids is that way.

I am extremely please with my children and not to be "too proud" but have been complimented numerous times about the exceptional attitudes and behavior of my children while out in public.

We could go on and on about this all day but, I'm done now. Good luck with your ways of parenting Ronja and I really hope your method works out for you. It has for the rest of your family so I would think it would for you too.

 

First of all, I am a teacher. Of course I've read a lot of books about different pedagogics. Second, yes I do somewhat talk of experience. I was a foster mum for a very troubled young boy (9years old) for a year. And from being a mean little bastard, he changed to becomming quite normal. (Only "quite", he still had a lot of traumas to carry.) But he changed without me spanking him. It just took a lot of patience... and I praised A LOT, and I was only authoritative when absolutely nessicary. When I had to be authoritative, I always explained why he had to do as I told, and tried to be fair while doing it. (NO! You have to go to bed right now! You're going to school tomorrow! I do understand you'd like to finish watching this TV-show though, so I can tape it for you if you'd like, and you can watch the rest tomorrow.)

Why would you put them in time out for a minor issue like playing with the food in the first place? You can stop the non-sense simply by taking away the food. The kid will eat properly when it's hungy. Not getting food if you don't intend to eat it, is also a logical consequens that most children will understand.
But yes, if you DO intend on giving time-out for every minor issue, then you'll have run out of options when the kid does something seriously wrong. So why not save time-out for something bigger?

Or you can simply remove the object the child wanna grab...

About the sreaming, I've seen soooo many parents starting to yell at their kids. When the kids don't listen the parent will just yell louder. It's extremely ineffective. They quickly learn that screaming doesn't mean a thing...

First of all, all humans have their own mind, and they are intitled too. And children are humans too, at least they where last time I checked...

That also means that a child will not always blindly do what the parent tells them to. So you will at one point have to fight some battles with children. A whole lot of them. (If not, why would you need to spank in the first place?) A lot of people seem to forget children have an opinion and a will of their own. Unless there's a good reason for it, they should be alowed to have so. Why really bother about stuff like a child wanting to wear mis-matching clothes? A lot of parents will have huge fights over this, but if the clothes are clean and suitable for the weather, it doesn't really matter. Instead of starting a fight about clour-coordiantion, one should rather save the fight for something more important.

Because child psychologists world wide agree there are lots other ways to raise attentive, polite children...

You're absolutely right. A look doesn't make a difference IF the kid is used to harsher punnishments.

And no, my father have done nothing. As I said, I don't even remember him ever raising his voice. Some people just know how to be authoritative towards children, without traditional punnishment.

I remember we had neighbours who thought my dad was really strickt at home, since he could just give us a look to straighten us up, even in the playground. I was aprox 10, when I overheard two mothers saying "well, they probably know they'll get scolded at home if they don't behave immediately". I was suprised of why they would think so. The truth is, that hardly ever happened. Both my parents would just correct us right where we were, and then just leave it with that, unless we did the same thing over again.

TY. I know it will