White Culture?

I had a really interesting conversation with a Nigerian guy last night. I asked him if he is legally an American citizen or if he's only here on a student visa (Like most of the other African guys I know) and he seemed quite proud to admit that he is in fact a full fledged American now. So of course I mentioned how that means he's an "African-American" in the literal sense of the term, and that got us on the subject of African-American vs Black. He told me that some people at his school kept telling him that now that he's a citizen he's no longer African American, he's Black American, and so on and so forth, but he disagreed, and so did I.

I mentioned how I feel he has more right to the term than my ex boyfriend, who doesn't identify himself with the term African American, and just calls himself black, and doesn't really care much about Africa, whereas this fella is still quite African. I guess he's gotten into a lot of these conversations that went the opposite way or something, because he seemed quite excited to have someone to agree with. *L* Anyway, so I mentioned myself as an example, how I don't like using the term Irish American to describe myself because it's so far removed in my ancestry that my family has no real ties to Ireland or Irish culture.

But that's not the point of this thread anyhow, though I'm getting there finally.

So, he warmed up to me at that point, and started making a few funny observations he's had about the different races and cultures here in Houston, and one of the comments was something like "Why are all the white people around here so boring?". I laughed and said "Heeeey, I'm white too, you know, and I'm certainly not boring".

His response?

"You're not white, you're Irish"

I've never encountered that perspective before. Apparently by claiming my heritage, to him I was placed into a different ethnic category instead of just plain "generic white girl". Other than people joking with me saying "You're not white, you're really black...just real light-skinned" I've never had anyone else place me in a different category. Now, I believe self identification is more important than social identification when it comes to race and ethnicity, but still. It got me thinking, and I love it when random conversations do that.

Does it really make that much of a difference to be "Irish" instead of "White"? Here in America it doesn't seem to matter much to people, especially since I, like most of the white people I know (with a few exceptions) are more "mutts" than anything, with countless different cultures and countries of origins in their ancestry. I personally claim two, Irish and Native American, but chances are with a little research I'm sure some German and English ancestry would also be found. The aforementioned cultures are simply the most obvious, and closest to my generation. Though I've never spent time with "real" Irish Americans, nor have I ever been embraced by any Native Americans as "one of their own" because of my skin tone. My parents could pass, but I couldn't, so I don't try.

So what do you think? Is there a difference between being white, and being Irish, even if the latter isn't part of your personal culture? I just call myself American generally, because it's the term I feel best describes me, seeing as how the Irish is, in my opinion, too far removed to claim the country as my country of origin (which is how I see it when using those "insert country here"-American terms. Claiming country of origin) and also because it's not the only culture I come from.

 

I'm part Austrian-Hungarian that came here in the early 1900’s (which I'm not ashamed of). My other ancestry is Europeans that settled in Virginia in the early 1600’s and I have documents to show that...which I’m not really proud of, but I can’t change that. We are all imegrants…some by choice and others not. I think it’s just really cool to understand your background.

That’s the crazy thing…most of us are mutts, so why is it wrong for whites and blacks to mix? Can someone answer that question?????

 

I guess to answer your question, my ancestors were here before me, so I consider myself American. If I was born and raised in another country, then I would consider myself that nationality.

I don't know...I guess it's all a mater of perspective. That's just mine.

 

I'm a mutt in every sense of the word. I'm German, Irish, English, French, maybe Scottish, maybe Jewish. Who knows?? :lol:

I call myself an American, because I am far removed from any country of origin of my ancestors. I think that we shouldn't be so busy trying to pigeon-hole everyone into these categories. If you're born here, you're an American - as far as I'm concerned.

If you emigrate here, then you're an "insert country of origin"-american, in my eyes.

 

I agree. For that reason, I typically avoid mentioning anything about someone's race or ethnic background until they've given me some idea of how they identify themselves.

Myself, I grew up in a family that identified themselves as Americans but much of our culture was based on our Polish roots. Both sides of my family came from Poland about four generations ago as did many of the people that I grew up around. Despite the fact that I am generations removed from Poland, I have, on occasion, identified myself as Polish-American because of the strong influence this particular aspect of my upbringing has had on me. Self-identification.

 

I had an African American coworker tell me once "You're not white. You're Russian. You're ethnic." I guess it's a matter of approach. Ethnicities are like cities and towns in one country. You can be from Moscow or St Petersburg or Samara or Tula, but you're still from Russia. You can be French or German or Dutch, you're still white. Any white person in the United States has ancestors from Europe, the only difference is how many generations away.

Droga Veemo - czesc!:smt006

 

Yes, I get this all the time too Mosk.

I guess (if you want to play the let's put people in boxes game) they are actually drawing a distinction between 'Anglo Saxon' and others (like Slavs case in point).

As in making a general comment just mucking about , I tell them to ease up on whiteys (all in good fun) and they say "oh no don't worry, you aren't WHITE white.."

Really, you can't be that accurate in saying "white culture" any more than "African culture" "black culture" "Asian culture" or anything else.

Culture is not primarily about race. It's not a product of race. It's about place, and language, and shared values and experience.

"Black culture" What's that? You have a whole continent of Africans to start with, thousands of communities each with their own specific culture.

Then you have the unique blend of culture Brasilians have, Afro-American culture that comes from its own particular mindset, etc.

And for 'whites' (whatever they are) it's exactly the same.

'White culture' isn't really an accurate term, in the first place.

Aussies would resent any suggestion there culture is like Americas, for example, or the UK. Of course there are similarities, but many differences too.

 

Leksola, what country are you in?

 

Interesting points of view, all of them. Myself, I think that in America, this country is so VASTLY different in different geographical areas, you could say that your "culture" (as opposed to your heritage) stems from where you are in the country. My heritage? It's a small group of people referred to here as "Germans from Russia." My great grandparents (on both sides of my family as a matter of fact) were the first generation here, (illegally, I might add), after getting exiled from Germany to Russia in the 1800's. It's a very interesting part of history from what my parents and aunts and uncles tell me, but besides speaking a little German and maintaining a couple of German traditions around the holidays, I don't identify with that at all. My culture? So-Cal. My opinion, take it or leave it

 

Does being "American" mean you're of European descent and you were born in America?

So to be a "true American" you have to be of European descent and be born in America?

 

He would still be called "African American"

Me personally,I consider African immigrants "African americans"

And Blacks whove been here for hundreds of years and have slave blood,Black americans.

 

"White Culture" - Is a CODE phase for, white elitist, generally racist people that seem to live in a "different" reality than the rest of us do...

These are the same morons that say things like -

"Black people can be racist too"

"Racism is dead if Obama is elected"

Apart of this group there are "Coconuts" a slag term for "White" acting Latins, where they don't wanna vote for Obama because it would mean Blacks would jump ahead of Latinos in terms of importance on the "racial" ladder.

Generally we view those born of 1st generation Europeans know from history that you have faced oppression and war, unlike ALL Americans who have YET to protect its soil from invasion but is quick to shout "Kill a Commie" or "Kill a Towel Head"

Where the "The Economy Stupid" has eclipsed the "War and Occupation of Iraq and elsewhere". In other words "Selfishness" wins out over all else. The Economy? Why should I worry???? If it goes to hell not much I can do about it.

Americans are generally stupid, uninformed and only have book knowledge, no "street" knowledge and hardly any common sense, otherwise shows like Jackass wouldn't be popular....

People talk about Bill Ayers like he actually did something, when it was Tim McVeigh that SUCCESSFULLY (I might add) BLEW up a Federal Building.

Bill Ayers - Former "Radical" NOT A TERRORIST no violence to back up the claim.

Many people didn't like the War in 'Niam" that has LITTLE to do with Ayers Univ Professor that Obama knows TODAY.

Tim McVeigh - HOME GROWN TERRORIST (Ok City Bombing)

Ted Kaczynski - HOME GROWN TERRORIST (Uni Bomber)

And the Good Ole' KKK - HOME GROWN TERRORIST

So wish American would stop and THINK before they say anything but of course thats ASKING Way too much.

 

Right now? Or my origin.

I'm an Aussie- born in Australia to a Serbian mama and Irish Papa who had a Greek daddy (first generation Aussie then!) .

Was fortunate to have a crazy childhood growing up all over the world now, and to run a crazy life in different places all the time too.

 

DJ, we clashed heads in another thread but I think your post was spot on. Succint. Lovin it.

You would be good to argue politics in person!

Agree with first generation European particularly. I hope I can carry on the deep thanks I have that my parents were able to escape the persecution they suffered as a result of their 'radical' politics in their home countries and the constant persecution they suffered because of their willingess to speak out against murderers who were running things.

 

This is true too.

San Fran to Savannah two random examples (and where abouts you sit in either of these areas ) are like totally different worlds.

As an Australian I can never get over how damn big the coffees, slurpees, soft drinks and burgers are in both though Yeah, never been able to get over the coffee thing and what I need to ask for to receive a normal sized strong decent espresso with milk! hah

Personally my fave spots in the states are San Fran, even Chi town. And that is partly linked to the feeling of different 'culture' you can get in those places. NY of course obviously as well.

 

:smt017 I'm not sure of the tone of this post. But, we're just giving examples of the our own ancestry (being caucasion). This in no way excludes people with different skin colors and their own American heritage. We're just giving examples of our ancestral background (which tends to be of European descent).

 

My post wasn't intended in the least to be about racism. It was about how when I mentioned my ancestry in a conversation with an African American immigrant from Nigeria he suddenly put me in a different category, and no longer saw me as a "generic, cultureless white American". I find it interesting that whites in America are seen as being without culture unless they claim their roots in different countries, when really that's far from truth.

Every place has it's own culture. To me it's more geography than race that defines one's culture, especially because of the "melting pot" make-up of so many places around the world.

The culture in Houston is different than the culture in Dallas. Both cities feel different than me. It has nothing to do with the racial make-up of the places and everything to do with the fact that they are simply different cities. Every place in the world is different. Sometimes in small ways, sometimes in vastly contrasting ways, like comparing Tokyo to Anchorage, Alaska.

Equating "White Culture" with "racism" is just plain stupid. Sorry, but it is. It was just a term I used, not a definitive statement anyhow. This isn't about white supremacy or anything ridiculous like that. It was a simple question asked out of curiosity because while I can understand being Irish and being English, or Romanian, or Russian, or Greek, or whatever can be different, in America so many of us are of mixed descent it seemed odd to me that the guy I was talking to viewed me in a different way than he does all the other white people he meets because I'm "Irish" instead of "white".

Moving on.


Black people CAN be racist. ANYONE can be racist, regardless of race, creed, religious belief, sexual orientation, or what shoes they wear. No culture, in my opinion, is "above" racism.

As for Americans being stupid? The majority of us are. Not all, but a whole fucking lot more than I'm comfortable with are absolute idiots. But there are idiots all over the world, too.

Again, this thread was NOT about white supremacy. I am nowhere near racist myself. I judge others based on who they are, not what they look like. I'd appreciate if you didn't turn my thread into another "stupid fucking white people thinking they're better than everyone else" thread.

I'd apologise for the title, if it offended you, but I see no need. I figured the post I made in the beginning would be explaination enough. Read before you type, next time.

 

My interpretation is not that DJ was saying you were racist.

I think he was trying to explain what some people mean by "white culture"- becuase obviously on the surface the phrase does not make sense because it was too broad.

He was saying that some black people may use "white culture" to mean the attitudes/culture of racist whites with these attitudes. I think..

 

I am Scottish (3/4) and Dutch (1/4) amongst other things but I only call myself Scottish or Scottish & Dutch or just plain British because, like you said, other countries in my background are too far removed. I don't really know anything about France or Wales or any of the other countries. I don't know that much about Holland if I'm being honest however but enough to constitute myself as being partly Dutch. I know a lot about Scottish culture but if I were to write down my country of origin I'd say British. Maybe Scottish but most of the time I write down British. It's strange because most Scottish people hate to be called British and want to distingush themselves from the rest of the UK, what can I say, we're a patriotic bunch.

 

I think the hyphenated American may only be useful in America. Overseas it makes to difference. Ask the troops being shot at in Iraj, etc, whether being a member of a particular ethnic group- white(irish, german, italian, etc) black(african, west indian, latin american, etc), latino (mexican, cuban, etc), and so on- guarantees they won`t be shot.