I always try to find the history behind a culture before i ask "Gee Why do they do that?" but what is the history behind toplessness in certain countries like france and sweden. http://www.thelocal.se/9078/20071112/
At least in Sweden, it was a part of the feminine movement in the 70 and it was quite common for quite a while. Its by and large gone these days - although it occurs, but not as it used to be. The Scandinavian countries - cant speak for the rest of Europe - the sexual "hang-ups" are less.. and you could even see H&M have adds about lingerie that resembles a Victoria Secret catalog at bus stops and for shower creams etc on commercials on TV. Naked bodes are simply less taboo as compared to here One can equally wonder what the history of the "prudness" about it here stems from. Actually, I wonder about that sometimes. Equally intriguing is the dating culture here in the states where one dates and apparently also sleep w other people unless you have established that you are "dating exclusively", That doesn't exist in Sweden, or at least didnt. Which to me is a bit contradictory to the prudness on the surface, - because that is how I see it, the prudness is only on the surface. I find it all very interesting.
I will neve understand women or feminine movements. I mean burning of the bra or not wearing any. That sounds like a guy's dream. It stems from religion. Think of the children!
There's a few topless beaches where I am living, and one full on nude beach (naturalist resort). I don't see it as a sexual thing, by taking off my bikini top, it's just another part of my body on which I want to feel the sun and sea. I'd swim naked in the sea everyday if I could.
I think the "prudness" came from Christianity in this country. I still haven't figured out what "dating exclusively" or "in a relationship" and the determination seems only in if it was "said" and nothing to do with the strength or the relationship. And people take "exclusive" at face value, especially women. Exclusively dating? OFF COME THE CONDOMS.
good history lesson. thanks. why has the topless movement stopped? Is sweden more westernized now? Is toplessness causing problems? If yes, what are they? is it like in france? http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/22/topless-bathing-france its all one big pile of confusion at the end of the day. In the States IMO, i feel we now live in a homophobic - pornographic culture. And this causes problems as a result. So women here in the states frown on things like toplessness. i guess because a womans body is already too sexualized. i don't know. I mean the idea of a feminist talking about her right to be topless is mind boggling. its actually really funny to me. but i understand that its a diff. culture. http://www.bittenandbound.com/2007/11/22/bara-brost-swedish-woman-fighting-to-bare-their-breasts/ Usually feminists argue about equal rights as it relates to power and privledge, freedom, money, identity, benefits, and status. Not partial nudity rights. we are religious prudes in the states sometimes too. Its complex . I don't have anything against religion because alot of american culture comes from christianity. I guess for me, when i see articles like the one i linked to, it makes me wonder about the mentality behind why a person does what they do. As far as toplessness at beaches here in the states like say in a place like Miami for example, IMO. Its all about exhibitionism and "showing off your stuff" . Its a competitive thing. but in some of the european countries (france and sweden) its not like that at all apparently. Even out of shape soccer moms go around topless. I recently saw a family movie from france called. Le père de mes enfants there is a scene where the family is at a pond and the little girls are running around with no top on. And i said to myself. "Wow i see that this is programmed into their minds early in life. And that in their minds there is no difference between having one off or on." and you're are right about the dating "exclusively" thing. a friend of mine was dating a girl from either sweden or poland i think and she felt very hurt/upset by the fact that he has other partners besides her while seeing her. She confirmed that in her culture you choose a mate and that's the person you are with. Not this "i'm a adult and i have to experience other things with lots of people while i'm young, stop whining!" rant but i guess at the end of the day all cultures have their own unique brand of dysfunction.
Bhayes: To your question if Sweden have become more Westernized? I dont get the question since Sweden is a Western Country and always have been "westernized". Its probably one of the most Americanized countries in Europe. And no, toppless sunbathing never caused any problems, what would they be? Annoying for some and enticing for others. For toplessness in regards to femininism... you thinking about it wrong. YOu have to understand the topless movement started in the 70s - women werent as sexualized then as they are today. The topless movement would never start today. You have to look at the topless movement in the appropriapte time setting. The topless movement did not start today, its pretty much dead. W There is simply just less sexual hangups in the Scandinavian countries. For an example, no one bats an eye lash about nakedness in movies etc.. but blood and gore that is accepted here is less accepted there. The reason for the toplessness being less common now. When I was a teenager, you could sunbathe topless on any beach, that is not true anymore. I could be that we are becoming pruder but I dont think so - I just think topless sunbathing came full circle - had its time, did its thing and is done.
good points. i didn't know that sweden was the most Americanized country. good to know. As far as why would it be a problem. Well again here in the states I feel like there is a mentality and fear of mans sexual nature. But i see its a cultural thing. so that explains the difference. but as far as nudity and sexuality and so on. Violent crimes like rape are huge factor that can cause the development of fear of men in women. And just the simple fact that i feel that today we live in a pornographic, homophobic culture that is also prudish too at times. So many women already feel degraded enough already. So American women look down on things like toplessness. So again the FEAR of men and of rape and other things are all concerns. the idea here in the states is, if your want nudity rent a porno or go to a strip club or get a nude magazine but keep your clothes on. infact this article is intersting. http://www.wayodd.com/german-sunbathers-complain-about-polish-voyeurs-at-nudist-beach/v/9419/ i see that at some of these countries there are problems between nudists, topless people and sweingers too. or rather there is a clash between lifestyles. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nd-swingers-at-war-in-Frances-Naked-City.html So i guess Topless-ness encourages total nudity which can progress into swinging too. but either way, its all very interesting and funny to me.
Again; You are missing the point, its started in the 70s it would never start in Sweden in todays society - your missing that. The top less thing is not common now, as you saw in the article... its really not accepted today. Back in the 70s it was another story. Sexualism was different as it was in its infancy as women were concerned. Being topless at a beach never increased rapes etc.. I dont see topless-ness as it started in the 70, ever happen in our culture today. It did its thing, its a gone era for the most part. Clearly there are people that still want to go to nude beaches etc but I have to completely disagree with you statement that topless ness encourage nudity and progress to swinging.. that does not compute at all and is quite a bit out there imo.
i was simply saying that its a possibility. i'm not sure of anything as far as toplessness at beaches and so on. i mean what do i know about it. nothing!. i'm simply looking thru the keyhole here. i never said i was an expert. maybe i have the countries-cultures mixed up. german, sweden, france and so on i guess all have different attitudes about it. when i hear and see european countries that have topless beaches and when i see french family movies that have little girls running around with no top on - it makes me ask myself questions. again the articles i linked to say that in a french town where people walk around nude/topless are having problems with swingers being attracted to the town. and a part of germany that has topless beaches are having problems with polish people at their border with people staring at the topless women as if they're zoo animals. but as you said, it sweden its pretty much a dead issue. so thanks for the info!
I think the thing w little girls running around w no tops on, is simply because they are viewed as little children and not sexual objects so if they dont want a top its ok. It doesn't enter the mind of the vast majority that its necessary until a certain age. You can equally then question why little kids should have a top on. Mark that I didnt say they shouldnt, Its just a question to address as well. Its not like USA culture is right and Europe is different and questionable - I know you didnt mean that - I just mean, take a step back and evaluate the culture here as well.. You will always have that ogle like that, especially if they come from cultures where nudity etc is frowned upon. I think some sort of separation could be done if that was an issue, if people wanted that. The need for police for ogler seems a bit odd to me, I mean, how many could there be? I think this is the reason why many nude beaches are separated.. Dont know, never been to one... I cant comment on top-less beach town attracting swingers, but to me - I dont get that as these arent necessarily the same group of people, I think the vast majority of topless sunbathers arent swingers. Swingers arent that large of a group and usually sorta underground. Besides that, I dont see swingers as bad people, they arent robbers or pedofiles etc.. so if they do their thing - its not my problem as I think they in general are just regular law abiding citizens. So what if a town attract swingers then? Its not like they gonna fuck each-other in front of said town.
