The radical British plan?

Man you used examples for things that had no relevance to the subject ie jewish schools.

Likening racial desrimination to sexual health and oral health care :smt105


U may not think you sound hard done by but you do !

WE have free education here at a very good standard.

A national curriculum thats quite exspansive.

U suggested a personal psychologist for black boys.
Laughable!

U just dont want to accept that home life is the problem for these kids and where they live.

And if you say its because its mainly single parent family kids that are the problem im gonna scream !!!!!

Single parent does not mean as a single parent you are allowed to use it as an excuse for kids not being set rules.

If my son does badly its my problem and I need to sort it out not sit on my arse and wax lyrical about what the goverment is not doing for my kid!

To much responsibility has been placed on schools for kids of all COLOURS!
Parents need to take some responsibility.
Sort out there enviroment the government cannot babysit and monitor everysingle child.

This attitude is what i hate not you personally.

 

GOING IN CIRCLES! I GIVE UP...OKAY!

 

Yes you are a very tiring man i agree

 

cosign...

and also...

It’s a hard one. I notice you say you don’t see problems with Indians, Asians...etc.Its the same here in the UK as well, the Indians do very well. I think a lot has to do with the Culture. For example, I know a lot of Indians, and education is the most important thing to them. If an Indian guy doesn’t get a decent education, he struggles to get a wife. They put that much emphasis on education. Black folks in the UK just don’t put as much emphasis on education. It’s strange though because Africans in Africa are the exact opposite, Education is everything. And another thing, too many inner city black boys see entertainment as a career. Now I don’t see any race as infatuated by becoming entertainers as black boys...


I think the obstacles faced by black boys would probably be the same as those by the aboriginal kids in Australia.

 

Getting an education is something every older black person in the states thinks is important. Generally, older black parents (by that I mean people that don't have kids until they are at least in their late 20's) seem to do a better job of instilling these values....in the U.S., a lot of black babies grow up with a great-grandmother that is 50, a grandmother that is 33 and a mother that is 16. By comparison...my great-grandmother died two years before I was born...and if she was still alive she'd be 112 whlie my great-grandfather would have been 117 years old. The point is that...there is no wisdom being passed along because we have our children too early and we aren't mature enough to raise them...consequently we make mistakes that we shouldn't make and our children end up being sacrificed in the process.

One reason why it is difficult in the U.S. for black kids is that in Africa and Asia...there is no real way to make "quick money." Your only chance of making it, is by being the best, of the best of the best...and even then you may have to pull some strings to get a decent job. In the states, you may not be born great, but you can become great. However, with the influence of pop culture and sports, it is very easy to look to the recording studio or the basketball court as a way to survive instead of using the books to make it out.

 

I agree with "disposableheroine" that the separation should be based on grades rather than race. Perhaps they should be housed in a different school with some incentives thrown in so that the students can then return to their original schools once they are up to snuff.

 

I think that's the rule no matter where you are and no matter what ethnicity you have. People who decide to have children at a higher age, generally do so because they have focused on their education and career. And that's values they'll bring on to their children.

Good point though. Even if the children are not first generation immigrants, but British born blacks, their parents have to come from somewhere. And in most of the world, the average age for when people start having children is much lower than it is in the west.

Be nice to Swazi. He's one of my favourites here. And even though I haven't seen his picture (I'll go looking for it later on) I'm fully convinced he's black. He's Swazi exactly like he says he is (or he has spend way too much time in Swaziland-(if that's even possible), cause he definitely know the place.

Not only is he black, he's probably one of the cutest guys here, cause the Swazis are IMO generally :smt049:smt049:smt049:smt049 Only African I've ALMOST has sex with (not counting hb- I've obviously had sex with him) was Swazi. (See Swazi, I told you there's a lot of stuff you don't know about me. LOL)

I do however agree with your main point. I also do not think segregation is the way to solve a problem like this.

I see. How is the African students doing compared to the average?

Side note: English? Not pidgin or Creole?

 

The fear of black achievement without white interference is still to real. But looking back, there is no denying how successful many black communities were when they were left alone.

Would black boys learn better if they were in exclusive schools? Probably. Even white girls and white boys learn better when taught exclusively (as many wealthy elite send their children to segregated private schools). Is it best for the boys individually? Their community collectively? Or Nationally? I dunno.

 

Thanks Ronja...

Oh, now I see why you like Swaziland so much...its not all that weed..its because we are black stalliones(in the sack)..lol

When I started this topic, I knew most people wouldnt agree with me..its just too radical for most...

I dont think we doing too bad, because the plan is intended only for Afro-caribbean boys.Doesnt say anything about Africans.Dont know what grades we get though.

Side note: English? Not pidgin or Creole?[/quote]

Yep..Its English pidgin generally. My barber speaks pidgin, can barely understand him, but he understands me fine.Its like he speaking English backwards.

 

Well, of course, what did you think? That it was because of all that fine livestock???
:roll:
(Kidding of course.)

Honestly, I don't know what it is. I just feel oddly at home there.
:smt045

Back on topic:

If it's just that small group, and not blacks in general, they should find some way to make the parents more interested in their children's education. Or, perhaps they are interested, but don't have education enough to help their children with their homework. Here, we have good experience with having "homework-aid" to children who for some reason don't have parents that are capable of helping them. Some kids, especially teenagers, also prefer having someone else helping them.

What becomes of these children, do you know? Do they end up as decent human beings (honest, hard-working, but perhaps with a low income job), or do they end up in jail?

 

I do not...there may be some MINOR similarities but that's it...

So, I'm just "brainstorming" here...throwing out ideas...please refute all if you think these ideas are wrong, and bring an alternative point of view...

Culture is the main problem here, according to a lot of things....and that's "black" culture not 1st imigrant African culture - a different thing altogether and a distinction I think should be made.

I think, it's an international problem, because black culture has been very well exported through the media. Furthemore, it's a very attractive culture...and it's got a lot of pride and "togetherness"....which are a difficult combination together.

I see a lot of Islander kids at home following the culture. Because they're "colored" and they are usually a little lower socio-economic and they're a visible minority. They seem to flock to it....

But, there are white people that follow it too...
It does seem to be cultural...I dont see any Indians and very few asians getting into....well - chinese and taiwanese...the south-east asians get into it a bit.

It's what's acceptable to the majority.
Why do black parents accept the poorer parts of the behaviour?

I agree with Francie....school isn't there to change every thing about your kid...if that's what you want, send them to a military boarding school...a public school can only do so much. Furthermore, is it not a dangerous precedent to set to say..."well, because you're black we understand you have extra problems and here's the extra help"...then, you hit the workforce - no-one gives a shit. You sink or swim out there. Noone will be making excuses for you.

What about this..

inner city school (because apparantly, that's where the problems are?!?!).
3 boys. 1 white boy doing poorly, and quiet. 1 black boy doing well, and quiet. 1 black boy doing poorly and not quiet.

Scenario 1 - they segregate "before the problem"...the 2 black boys go into the "black classes". I am not that far out of school. I know that you put a whole bunch of people together who similar, it compounds the problem...not fixes it. You would need some AWESOME teachers to really sort that - and we all know that's not happening. In this scenario, the white boy doesn't get the help he needs, simply because he's white....and the performing black boy gets lumped with everyone else, just because he's black.

Scenario 2 - they don't segregate on colour, but performance. There will also be the same problem of putting them all together compounds the problem...but, with a wider variety of backgrounds, keeping EVERYBODY in the minority, will perhaps aleviate that somewhat. this way, both the poorly performing white and black boy get assistance...and the successful black boy gets what he needs, which is a regular class.

Having said all of that, I 100% believe that parents or a parent need to start from an early age ensuring their kids go on the right path. Of course, there will always be bad parents with good kids and good parents with bad kids. But if you are not there with your kids, being a role model to them, spending time with them....teaching them, helping them....then, I believe, you reap what you sew..and then society pays the price....the last part was my opinion, but the rest is open to discussion. Not flame, not rudeness - discussion. You can't solve any problems without acknoweldging them and rationally looking at all sides.

 

What FEHG said is kinda off what i was trying to get at, as having a black son this issue felt very personal to me , and i actually felt quite upset by it, who knows where we might live in the future, the idea of segregation at such an age just felt "wrong" and appeared lacking in the benefits you claimed it would have.

Just a mother of a child that could be in the segregation categorey.


sorry for saying you were a twat Swazi but wholeheartedly disagreed.

 

sorry, francie. I didn't understand. are you saying you agreed with me or not? If not, what in particular?
I find this an interesting topic...and something important to me in the future...

 

Should have just put agree instead of kinda agree lol lol :smt026

 

Understand your points. But the way I see it is like this. First of all, I personally do not see this plan being applicable to all Caribbean black boys. My variant of this plan is that it should be limited strictly to inner city Caribbean black boys. Now, don’t know if you have been to an inner city area with a large black population. Well, let me tell you statistically, the number of black boys performing well, or 'normally' will be near none exist. Okay you may get the occasional one who wants to do well academically or is an environment conducive to learning. But the vast majority are no-hopers with no direction. Look, I don’t agree, with separating all black boys: thats wrong. Because we are all different from different backgrounds. Now, an inner city black kid is different kettle of fish, we all more or less know he has come from a difficult and different environment..and the this ' too cool to study is most prevalent'. You can guarantee his attitude to work..will be 'different', he will more than likely have the 'Ghetto mentality'.That is to say he will look to take short cuts in everything he does. Even if the kid has ability, he will probably not wont want to show it..So why not separate the black kids and have them taught by someone who understands the environment they come from, some one they respect , who can bring the best out of them.

Sure, this poor attitude to education may have been derived from their household or friends, so I agree something has to be done at home first. By all means help the kid with his home life. But why not do this in parallel with the plan?. The fact of the matter is this:caribbeans have lagging behind whites for years. Countless home improvement plans have been tried in the decades they have lagged behind their white counterparts. These plans will continue to be tried. And most likely end up with the same result. Dont you think when one approach isnt sufficiently working there comes a time to try something new and innovative? So really is this plan that drastic if you know in almost all certainty the Kid is going to end up being an unproductive member of society

 

Fair points. As you may well be able to tell, I have not been in an inner city "black" area. I am a little white suburban girl from Aus....nothing more.

I also agree that when a plan isn't working - then change it...and if the results are, at worst, going to be the same as now - then it's worth a shot. I still think, however, that the classes should be along performance and not colour lines. Or, at least give black families the chance to put their kids through a normal program, if they want. If a good kid goes into a bad class, they sure as hell won't be coming out the same!

I would suspect the best option would be to change ghetto mentality - but if anyone can come up with a solution to that, they'd probably win the nobel prize! :smt081

sigh...why can't people just aim to be good? It makes me so sad.
When/if did you emigrate to the UK? Did you grow up there or move later on? If you studied there, what were your experiences?

 

Well, my primary school education was done in Africa.I did High school and University in UK. I guess I am kind of a hybrid, British-Swazi if you like. When I first moved over to UK I was suprised at kids attitude generally, and towards education. I was use to calling the teacher Miss or Sir , while my classmates in the UK use to mutter bitch(under their breath of course). That was the first thing I found strange, and also they way kids use to think it was really clever to skive(miss lessons) and go for a ciggi behind the bike sheds.Also if you answered too many questions in class you were called a teachers pet.While in contrast to Africa, the exact opposite is true. For a start education isnt 'free'. So whoever gets one, makes sure they do their very best. And students there actually strive to be teachers pets..and be the best student in class. Of course there were students in the UK, who worked hard. They just got called geeks..

I fitted in both these groups, as I was quite sporty and fitted with some of the academics..So I didnt suffer that much...

Well university, was a totally different experience, because people who were there generally wanted to work.And had worked really hard to get there, and it wasnt free. So my classmates kind of had a similar attitude to the african kids I went to school with. Met a lot of interesting people at Uni, and also met some of the most one dimensional people you could meet. Straightup bookworms, knew nothing more than what they were studying at University.Those people I avoid like the plague!

What about you, you been living on that massive island all your life?

 

I dont think homework aid would work in the inner city. Like you said the parents probably wouldnt be educated enough to help their kids.

I reckon most of them end up in crime or doing low paid manual jobs..

 

Either I don't understand you, or you me...

Why wouldn't homework aid work in the inner city?
Here, homework aid is not given by the parents- well engaged parents do it, but the kind of aid I'm referring to is given by partially people who are paid to do it (teachers who work a few extra hours) or volunteers (mostly retired teachers who still enjoy teaching).

Low paid manual work is OK. Someone has to do it.

 

YES...definately a misunderstanding on my part.I was under the impression the parents get shown how to do the homework then assist the kid.Now I have re-read your original message it makes more sense.
It could possibly work, its just a case of finding enough people to do it...
On the face of it seems like a good idea.