The radical British plan?

Would this work?

Found this this article quite interesting:its from the Guardian newspaper.

Black boys may have to be taught in separate classes from their white peers to help them do better at school, according to the race relations watchdog. Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was necessary to prepare for such an option because so many black boys are failing to get good GCSEs. He also called for tougher action against black fathers, questioning whether they should be denied access to their sons if they refuse to attend school parents' evenings.
Figures published last month showed black teenagers continued to lag behind their white classmates at GCSE, although there were signs the gap was narrowing.
Last year, just 35.7% of black Caribbean pupils in England scored at least five C-grades at GCSE, compared with a national average of 51.9%.
A spokesman for the Department for Education and Skills said progress was being made, with ethnic minorities "closing the gap", but there was "no room for complacency".
Mr Phillips told BBC1's Inside Out programme that many black boys were suffering from a culture where it was not cool to be clever, and they lacked self-esteem and good role models.
"If the only way to break through the wall of attitude that surrounds black boys is to teach them separately for some subjects, then we should be ready for that," he said. "A tough new strategy would compel black fathers to be responsible fathers.
"If they can't be bothered to turn up for parents' evening, should they expect automatic access to their sons?"


Does anyone think this would work? Would it work in the US?

 

The Brits need a radical dental plan.

 

Amen to that! What's up with that? Must have bad water over there!!!!! No offense!! LOL. We Americans may be ignorant-but the Brits do have some bad teeth!!!!! LOL!

 

I read in the Sunday Mail about the American obsession with dental health mentioning the star of the original The Office and Extras. He has bad teeth.

 

haha...is this payback for the 'No offense...but' thread I started..lol..
I guess it's official: UK vs USA...:smt066...YOU READY!

:idea:

What do you call an American with 2 brain cells?...





.....................PREGNANT......


Only messing of course...:smt005

 

:smt018:smt043:smt043 Give me a minute Swaziking and i'll be back at ya!!!

 

Well, depends on what is meant by "separate classes". Giving them extra tutoring or separating them from the class and giving them "special education"?

They need to be motivated differently. The teachers have to find a method that entices them to learn, if they have a short attention span and can’t sit still for a long time, they have to find another way to bring their attention to the subject matter. Also, they shouldn't just write off black boys but demand higher results from them. The teachers also have to learn about the kids' backgrounds and maybe they need more black male teachers.
And, of course, it all starts at home so the point about the fathers makes sense (yet we all see how that would be difficult).

"Separating" won't help, it might actually create more problems, in fact, black boys are already being separated in school. Maybe they should even change the structure of the classes.

 

Oh, the Office is a great series, but my favorite is Black Books.

 

I don't see how segregating children would impact their "suffering from a culture where it is not cool to be clever, and lacking in self esteem and role models". Separation just creates ignorance and rivalry, and I really don't see how this could up the test scores. Sure, if they wanted to take all the children with lower grades and put them in separate classes, sure, but using race as a factor is kinda stupid in my opinion. What about the smart black boys? Are they going to get lumped in with the others, just because of their race?

If they want to segregate classes do it based on grades alone, not race, because otherwise it's just stupid. Need more role models? Where the fuck are the teachers? I had some good ones growing up, and they were definitely positive role models for me. Get some Big Brother/Big Sister programs rolling. Self esteem? Say nice things to the kids! Shit, it's that easy! Use positive reinforcement in the classroom, not negative. Reward good grades with special things...a little candy (sugar free for health nuts, and banana chips seem like candy but they're delicious -and- good for you), 5 extra minutes of recess (that one worked wonders at one of my elementary schools. Five minutes seems like ages to kids), special lunches (pizza instead of the regular cafeteria food) etc.

When kids know they're getting something special they'll try harder. My high school had the lowest test scores in the state, so the state government gave us a little grant. It wasn't much, but it ended up working out well for them to take us on a trip at the end of the school year to King's Island (an amusement park in Ohio). The catch was that the only students allowed to go had to score 50th percentile or above on the SAT9 standardized test that measures (supposedly) how much you've learned what you should during the course of the previous year.

The first year they started this only a small fraction of students got to go, enough so that to cover the cost of the charter bus and tickets they had to allow students to bring along friends and family who had money to pay.

The second year, once the kids realized they weren't lying about the trip, we almost had to get a second bus because we were so packed. So that means there was a huge increase in kids scoring above the 50th percentile in just one year. It made a lot of the lazy kids take an interest in upping their scores, because they knew they got a day of fun at the end of the year. It didn't hurt that the vast majority of kids in my school are well below the poverty line, so these kids worked hard because they'd never gotten to go somewhere like King's Island, a real amusement park with real roller coasters. Their families couldn't afford it, so they busted their ass in school so they could.

I mean...shit, if they've got enough money to be thinking of separating the children out (which will require new teachers, maybe new schools, etc) why not just use money to encourage students to do well instead?

 

This concept has been around in U.S. schools for a good 10-15 years....There are some schools designed specifically for young black me and staff by black admin staff preferrably black men.

The concept is that if black boys had an structure controlled environment where their immediate authority figures are black and teach".... in an afro-centric curriculum where they're the history makers and not a footnote.." the will excell better in school and life.

I was in a similar program during my freshman year in high school.

They also have similar programs for young girls in teaching them separately from their more aggresive, and more vocal male counterparts.

 

I think that any segregation along a line so arbitrary is silly. It's about outcomes. What is the point of school? Education to survive in the society in which we live. It's not about being a BLACK person...and a WHITE person.

(I know that people may disagree with me on this)

so, schools should be segregated along education requirements...IE - people who are doing poorly should get extra attention. It may be that the vast majority are black. But, it just perpetuates the problems if you identify people for anything because of colour. The outcome is education - it doesn't matter what colour you are..

 

Right i must just say ive been thinking about this issue since my son was 6months old obviously this is not a new thing we think about in britain personally ive stopped worrying on my sons account as were in kent and he will have very little opportunity to acquire the too cool for school attitude that to be honest is more prevalent in major cities london, manchester , and so on this thing about keeping the fathers out of the kids life does not sound like a guardian thing more off a daily mail attitude if you ask me.

Ive personally not seen this article but it was probabley based on the rantings off some conservative mp thats never seen the inside off a local comprehensive and was ensconced in some private school or local grammar school if were lucky. This is not how we do things it wont happen its a bag of wind.
as to separating kids we do this anyway on the advice of S.E.N s whatever there colour and i dont see this as any different it will be taken by individual needs those already producing in class would be left where they are and those with a need will be given it! .

so i agree with the above

 

When you first look at this plan, most people think it’s ridiculous because it is very divisive. But I think if you delve a bit deeper, this plan could possibly work if implemented in areas where this 'too cool attitude' is most prevalent: In inner city areas. Inner city areas are where large sectors of Britain’s black population reside. Now I know a lot of people will probably be thinking why cant kids be separated on ability? Well isn’t this whats happening now…and its not working (for most black boys). Black boys are lagging way behind their white counterparts. If anyone goes into an inner city area you will find that most of the black kids ambitions are rarely ever to be a scientist, doctor, lawyer…they more than likely want to be entertainers..sports people…etc. There problem here is out of the millions of black kids who want to be entertainers only a few make it. The rest are left on the wayside without many qualifications. I also believe teachers have lower expectations of inner city kids because of their attitude. And as result many are not pushed to reach their full potential. If you factor that many are from one parent families, you see why this translates into poor academic performance.

Inner city black boys are ‘different’. Lets not be PC here. Black inner city boys usually come from broken homes and generally have poor attitude to education.
So taking a different approach to teaching them is needed that takes into account their background. So separating them (black people have one of the highest rates of one parent homes) and teaching them in a way fitting to their background in my opinion would be more beneficial. Teaching inner city black kids in separate classes(for important subjects) where the teachers have a good understanding of the environment the kid has come from and are willing to exercise a fair bit of patience will undoubtly help the kid in the long run. Psychologist could also be employed.
Some people might think its racist. In my opinion it isn’t because it essentially trying to help black people attain a higher education level.

 

Really good points Swazi...it's a tricky one. I also agree - it's not racist when the aim is a beneficial one. Well, whatever they decide...I hope that the kids do better in school.

 

Im not saying it does not work well in theory but realisticly i cant see separating them from there peers is gonna help them achieve more i think we are putting to much responsibility on the schools for something that probabley wont get the results hoped for. Its not the schools that are causing the problems here its there enviroment lack off things to do! no one to look upto in there social time ! i think they need to radically change the way they deal with young people as a whole give them something to do out of school build there confidence with youth programs as sadly there are just not enough of them anywhere in britain and the ones that are around seem to have to constantly fight for funding.

There is no quick fix i would love there to be one but they have to start from the foundations first and work there way up dictatorshipand segregation will fail miserably and im sure thats how headstrong teenagers are gonna see this.

U can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

 

No, No, you dont start when they are teenagers. Then it definately wont work..Teenagers are just too rebellious.You start separating them when their are really young and you teach them in a style that takes into account their home environment.

Not to dismilar to how a dyslexic child is taught in certain way to overcome his difficulties. I'm not saying inner city black boys have a disability, I am just saying they need a different approach..as evidently the conventional approach is not working.

 

Right then we have radical issues here then so you are obviously thinking primary school theirin creates a problem are the kids displaying trouble in keeping up at that age i doubt it, not enough for the radical differences to be obvious. So 1 separating them at that age on a colour basis would cause uproar i myself would complain at babies being made to feel different so early on in life it would violate all racial descrimination laws one because with no problem to officially tackle at that age how could anyone justify it.

You live here you know how things are it doesnt matter how much evidence there is we dont go in slinging guns arounds shooting down problems before they have happened quite rightly too because how do you actually know there is a problem in each individual case untill its there and its real.

We dont have laws about Descrimination so they can occassionly be cast aside when we feel like it we have to do what we can as sensible as we can at certain times without infringing peoples civil liberties.

I would scream from the rooftops if we lived inner city and he was segregated in class because of an attitude he might have later on as a teen i can guarrantee id be the first to pitch a tent and set up a protest.

You seem an intelligent man cant you come up with something that doesnt take peoples rights away but alleviates the problem.
Give those silly old buggers a heads up a realistic view

 

Good, you from the UK, so my examples are relevant to you..Now, when kids come from third world countries such as Somalia to settle in the uk..for example, dont local councils separate them because their English skills are poor and will hold the rest of the class behind?The answer to this is yes..They usually attend 'other' English classes..while everyone attends normal English lessons.Well guess what? most Somalians are not white. This is effectively separating kids based on race isnt it?Its an indirect form of separation.Why dont people stand on rooftops and scream and protest? I have an idea why...because its actually beneficial to the somalian children..and to the white kids in this case. Its not about taking human rights away from people...it about helping black boys..

 

I hate to be a pain in the arse but as my previous post said we cant justify dealing with problems like that ie by segregation when the children are still young and technically there is no problem as of YET! its not right but what your saying about somalian children being segregated yes there is a real reason for doing that because of the issue of language its evident at the time off segregation you can actually see the problem At That Time ! but with this other issue there are no problems untill a lot later.

Its a very controversial issue that twists the mind in attempts to think of an appropriate solution.

 

Yes we can though...because we know there is going to be a problem in the future if nothing is done. So that in itself is the justification.

okay using your logic: A child must not brush his teeth today because his teeth are healthy.We know in the future his teeth will rot though...

Again using your logic: Dont teach kids about sex education now, because it doesnt immediately affect them.Well we all know what the result of that is..unplanned pregnancies.

you see if you dont nip the problem at the bud...you only asking for problems in the future.