The Race Draft

If this was really all about genetics then we would not treat each other shit because from a genetic standpoint we all have so much more in common and geneticist have been saying that for years and years.

This whole issue of race is about power.
Nothing more and nothing less.

You know that.
All of you.

 

I'm not saying that it's all about genetics from a social point of view, because clearly it isn't. But from an actual, factual point of view it is about genetics.

If you mate male donkey and a female horse, what is their offspring? NOT horse, NOT a donkey but mule!

Society is obsessed with labels - it likes to pigeon hole people into neat little groups, and when it comes to "mixed breeding", on the whole the mixed rac child will be regarded as black if it looks more black than white, or if it obviously has black blood. But that does not mean that is what the child ACTUALLY is. That child is MIXED, that is not debatable. But the politics surrounding how people choose to see and label the mixed race child is debatable.

 

designer, AGREED!!

Iffey's wifey:

We will never see eye to eye on this issue, we'll have to agree to disagree.

If what you are saying is fact, at least half the "black" population would have to start claiming mixed race!!

The whole point is that this country is obsessed with blackness, determining one's percentage of blackness is a federal law for chrissakes.

Not are you Hispanic, but are "WHITE" or a 'BLACK" hispanic!!

If you think creating more racial categories is somehow going to mitigate this factor, I don't know what you're thinking.....

I knew a "mixed" girl in junoirhigh, we were best friends, she had the clearest, lightest, green eyes I've ever seen. She had light brown skin, and a "black nose", and some of the most fried out overprocessed kinky hair I've seen.

She hated the black in her, refused to admit to it.....hence the torture done to her hair in a vain effort to make it look "white"

Whiteness as an ideal is shoved down our throats daily, and that is not going to change.

My children don't need any kind of affirmation about their "white" part in them, they need to learn how to wholeheartedly love their black roots.

With this thread people are choosing who's black or not based on phenotype, were it that easy in real life.

White is stagnant, you can only be euro and be truly white.....yet remember that Afghan girl with the green eyes on the cover of Natioanal Geographic? She looked pretty damn white to me......but in the strictest of definitions she wouldn't be.....

Black is fluid, encompassing all with a trace of African roots. It has been that way since slavery.

I don't think it is healthy to stress you are "mixed", the signals the kids will get from society is white is right therefore the white part in them is better.

Sure I'll tell my kids genetically they are both white and black, but socially?, you're black and be damned proud of a race of people who have survived the worst atrocity in modern times and prevailed!

 

I totally disagree that by stressing you are mixed means saying white is better.

I dislike the term "people of colour", as it implies that anything non white is an alternative to being white - meaning that it's second rate. We ARE ALL people of colour, just different shades!

I don't think that adding an extra category of race is harmful at all, however, I do think that bundling everyone as non white into one box is. We are all mutts anyway, if you trace every one of us back far enough we will have mixed blood somewhere along the way.

 

I'm glad we are having this conversation in a rational, polite manner

I didn't mean that saying you're mixed was kin to saying white is better, wat I meant by that is, our kids will be getting the white is right mentality in so many different medians, I fear that by being labeled mixed, the pull to identify with, "Well....I AM half white", will in some way, bring shame about the half that is black.

I embrace the label of POC as that is the reality of Whiteness, anything else IS seen as "other", and treated as such.

What you are saying, we all are people of color, is true but not applicable to the present state of affairs, in that same vein I want ALL racial categories abolished, where all are seen as "one" one race, the human one but that is a fairytale. And since blacks are still routinely disciminated against in a myriad of ways, things like Affirmative Action are still needed.

True we are all mixed.....whites have African genes....we all came out of Africa....

 

@whiteshedevil...this movement was originally started by white women who wanted their mixed offspring to receive some of the benefits of white privilege.

 

Re: Iffey's wifey

I assume you're talking to me. No disrespect taken, but it is obvious this response was personal. But let me address your question. To begin with, no I am not American. The one drop of black blood which makes you black is an american law passed by WM. It may be hard to believe, but other countries have different laws or see things differently than americans. So if I don't agree with an american law makes me delusional then so be it. I thought nowadays it was considered being a terrorist by your government. Anyways back to the topic.

I don't know if this your conspiracy or an excuse to make your child a authentic african, but alot of blacks do not consider a mixed child more "black" because a BW gave birth to the child. Who has the time to question if a WM or BW gave birth to the child, before you decide whether he or she is black?

Regardless of what your opinion is, your mixed children are viewed different from other 100% pure blacks in America. I dare anyone 100% black person here to say mixed, light skined,or whatever "blacks" are not viewed different at times in the black community. Whether it is in America, Canada, Carribeans, South American, or Africa. Someone prove me otherwise.


Your husband has some mixture in him. But still looks african. Then he marry's you and you have kids. So your kids are really light skin with white features. So lets say your kids marry a WM or man and has kids. And their kids marry a WM or man and has kids. By the time any black feature will be gone or even before that. So can your great grandkids still call themselves african americans? If so any WM or woman can be a african american can't they?


I'm not saying a mixed child shouldn't reconize his african side, or white side of the family. But you are who you are. And if you're mixed, you are a combination of black and WHITE gene. Your genes is not 100% black period, so don't act like it is. I never understood why a parent would even teach a child just to reconize one side of their family.


Everyone knows how the slave trade occurred. I'm sure if you trace my family tree back 100+ years, I'll probably have a white relative somewhere down the line. But you won't catch me attending a KKK rally expressing my "white heritage" anytime soon. I mean seriously.

 

Soul Brotha

Hey, no disrespect intended at all since my comments were not directd at you just a statement on how I view things.....

Will address your comments though...

as soon as I am finished eating my salad......

 

What I thought was delusion was something iffey wifey alluded to.
Since I live in America I am concerned with the state of affairs "here" and no where else.

Being black here is seen as the worse possible, by almost all groups including other poc immigrants, like many hispanics.

What I meant about bw giving birth to mixed children, is that they've been doing it for hundreds of years, and not all by choice either. There was never a question as to whether the offspring are black.
Also added to the equation is that the woman usually imparts the culture, so these children are more likely to grow up with a solid knowledge of their "blackness".

The US has a very different idea on what is black or not, any African ancestry makes you black to the average white person. So it is not about making the child an "authentic African", it's about instilling in them pride for the part of themselves that is looked down upon.

Yes in the black community there are many issues regarding skin color, hair texture, and a myriad of other yardsticks to determine a persons blackness and all of it is negative. This is due to the oppression and adopting of many white held beliefs. Unfortunately the black community has absorbed a lot of self hatred due to white ideals in beauty, at the least. And the white preference for light skin. The backlash of course is if you have these features you are not black enough.....

Concerning who my kids might marry, you bring up points I've pondered. I'll bring up an example of a woman my mother knew when we lived in NH. She had olive skin and fine loose curly hair (looked a lot like my daughter in that respect). She was married to a white man and had a daughter with blonde straight hair and blue eyes. She had NO idea that lurking in her heritage there was a black grandparent, so she was what 1/8 black? Anyway she moved down south and called to complain to my mom about how the white southerns rejected her....they could tell she wasn't "pure" white, she did the research and found the black relative, which shocked her....but explained a lot.

About 25% of whites in the US have a black ancestor that has been swept under the carpet.....I hope by the time I have great grands this issue in America will be a non one, but I won't hold my breathe....We would also have my children marry white, and their children marry white in order to "breed" out the African gene. In that case the offspring would be considered white as any "color" in them would not be apparent.

Yeah their genes are not 100% African but in America that does not matter in order to be black. So many "blacks" have either white or Native American somewhere in their ancestry, so finding pure blooded African Black Americans I think is about 50/50 anyway.

It's not about recognizing one part of themselves, of course they will recognize that they are German, French, Scottish, Irish, English. Polish, and Russian(jews) as well as African descended. But in this environment, I want my kids to identify with black as in, yeah I am black...and what??

Not, oh I'm biracial, I'm "mixed", so I am not really black. Yes you are, by the standards of the United States you are, whether or not other blacks accept you wholeheartedly or not. Whites most certainly won't. But say you are a biracial white/asian mix what do you think the chances that those offspring will be accepted into white society? Pretty damn good.

Or my niece who's hispanic but has a decidely white appearence, she's accepted as white, but my nephew who is brown skinned is not. See my point? I don't even like the term African American, only if you are from Africa....we don't go around calling whites Euro-Americans. The term I prefer is black and as far back as 500yrs black has encompassed any with African ancestry, no matter what percentage of white genes they have.

So until this country stops with the hatred of black americans and they are given the same treatment at schools, the workplace and with the law, I will have my children claim black as a point of pride.

When they get older I could care less how they choose to identify. And if they get static from the black kids at school, well lets just say my kids will have lessons in self defense because I already know due to their appearence they are going to deal with a lot of hate coming from both sides. I am thankful they are so close in age, they will be able to defend eachother.....

 

It is very interesting how some people make the claim of Black Americans refusing to receive "mixed" half-white and half-black children.

Even though I do agree many Blacks may make fun of and tease those who are "mixed" race and some may even half-heartedly accept mix race children. At the end of the day, on average, BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT REJECT MIXED RACE CHILDREN!!!! Again, it is very common for Black people to deal with the reality of mixed race children, and accept them into the Black community--even their disinherited and rejected White mothers who choose to love a Black man. WHY? BLACK AMERICANS ARE A MULTIRACIAL PEOPLE!!!! It is more highly probable to find WHITE AMERICANS REJECT MIXED CHILDREN BECAUSE OF THE PROTECTION OF THEIR "WHITENESS".

I AGREE 100% PLUS WITH WHITESHEDEVIL ON EVERYTHING SHE HAS SAID ON THIS TOPIC. PLEASE LISTEN TO HER WORDS OF WISDOM.

Furthermore, the "mixed race" children who do get flack are only entering into a color war that existed among Black people since slavery times. It's a dirty little secret called COLORISM. Light vs. Dark and vice versa. Don't confuse colorism as total rejection, all BLACKS AMERICANS experience this at some point in their life and still are considered and excepted as Black. I believe Whiteshedevil referred to this reality already.

 

Her mom is asian and her father is black, I believe.

 

I remember there was one girl who used to like me, but after one summer of playing basketball out in the 90 degree weather and getting sunburned, i saw her again and she was like "oh no, i thought you were light skinned!" such a shame. :roll:

 

Absolutely!

 

What most of you are talking about is your own, or other people's PERCEPTION is, not what is actual fact. These perceptions are based on the politcial and social climate that we live in, not the genetic blueprint that maps our body history.

 

Iffy' swifey,

Well, if you want to talk about GENETICS.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BLACK PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE OR MIXED PEOPLE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DIFFERENT RACES BASED ON SKIN COLOR, FACIAL FEATURES, INTELLECT, AND ETC...! ONLY THE HUMAN RACE!!!!! THIS HAS BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN!!!!

THIS IS WHY WE ARE USING THE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL TERMS OF RACE BECAUSE RACE IS A POLITICAL AND SOCIAL CONCEPT NOT A BIOLOGICAL REALITY!!!!! THIS IS FACT!

WHITESHEDEVIL HAS ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU.

All racial labels are inaccurate when describing HUMAN BEINGS!

Furthermore, a "Mixed" child who has parents who are Black and White is Black and White--Both. If the child was neither one, she or he would not exist. Furthermore, the Mule example was a very poor example to use in comparing "mixed" children. The Horse and the Donkey are actual different sub species, NO SUBSPECIES EXIST IN THE HUMAN RACE. YOU ARE NOT CROSSING SUB SPECIES WHEN MIXING "BLACK" WITH "WHITE".

Also, I pose the question to you. How do you biologically define the Black race? How do you biologically define the White race? Especially when scientific evidence has proven that there is no such thing as different human races?

Peace.

Jacklyn

 

I have clearly stated that we are all mutts. I am just trying to point out that every term you are using for mixed race people is based on opinions and social climates, not what is actually making them.

Calling a mixed race child black is false, because a white woman cannot produce a "black" child, only a child who is perceived to be black by some people.

 

jeverage,

I am totally feeling you, except about hip/hop not being part of black culture....

Other than that I find your posts so far dead on...

 

WhiteSheDevil,

About HipHop not being part of Black culture. I apologize. In the first post, I made a mistake of explaining hiphop. You will find in the second or either the third posts I corrected this mistake.

I meant to say that HipHop as a muscial artform is part of Black culture. However, the Ghetto mentality and actions that is revered in the majority of mainstream HipHop is not Black culture, yet it is a telling of the destruction of Black culture and the pathologies that exist within the inner cities where they are majority Black. Being Ghetto does not originate with an ethnic group's values, beliefs, or traditions, but living in an inner city environment that is overcrowded and overburdened with poverty, pollution, health problems, and etc. Therefore, anyone can be ghetto. I used the example of the Irish and Italians when they first immigrated to America--they lived in ghettos and many were ghetto in mentality and actions, however, Irish and Italian culture in and of itself was not ghetto. Both promoted strong extended family bonds, responsibiltiy to community, and other positive traits that were not ghetto.

I only started the thread b/c some members on this board would constantly use Ghetto and HipHop as describing Black people as a whole. If one is not ghetto or down with Hiphop--one is closer to "White". This association is ridiculous. Just b/c a Black person does not listen to HipHop (a part of Black culture) does not make that person less Black. That is just like saying if a White person does not listen to Opera, it makes them less White, which we would agree is total nonsense. Furthermore, just because a Black person does not act "Ghetto", which I think is acting ignorant as hell and participating in self destructive activities as well as destroying the community (THAT HAS NO COLOR), does not make him less Black. That is just like saying if a White person refuses to act like a "Redneck", it makes them less White. Again, total nonsense. You get what I mean.

I hope I explained myself about my position on Hip Hop. I am just sick and tired of the abuse of the HipHop artform by the mass media and those artists trying to make a quick buck by promoting and exhalting the pathologies that exist among Blacks in the inner cities of the United States. Making a living off of pain, ignorance, hopelessness, and destruction.

Peace and Blessings,

Jacklyn

 

Iffy' swifey,

You are definining Black and White as a biological reality. This is where you are going wrong. As mentioned before, race is not a biological reality. It is a social and political construct. TECHNICALLY, WE ARE NOT MUTTS, WE ARE ALL ONE RACE--HUMAN. THE BLACK RACE, WHITE RACE, AND MIXED RACE DOES NOT BIOLOGICALLY EXIST, INSTEAD THEY ARE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL CONSTRUCTIONS.

Thus, there must be criteria, created by those in power, that must be meet to be Black, White, or Mixed. The Criteria is different for each society and established by those who are in power.

Peace.

Jacklyn