Some Blacks insist: 'I'm not African-American'

West Indians got that shit all fucked up!!lol

AA is still good. Not like it's offensive or anything to me at least.

 

I understand your point, but in the US this is always an ongoing issue because of the history of legal segregation, and not just vis-a-vis people of African descent, but also in terms of intra-European discrimination, anti-Asian and anti-indigenous discrimination. The degree to which group identity is often fostered and strengthened is often directly correlated with the degree of hostility or abuse they face collectively from another group. Even among white "Americans" the strongest sense of ethnic identity among them is often among those groups that are most culturally distinct and who faced the most abuse by Anglos when they arrived, namely Irish, Italians, Poles and Eastern European Jews.

 

Excuse me? Please elaborate

 

West Indians from my limited experience as an undergrad were the first to speak up and say they aren't 'Black' like the rest of us.

They wanna tell you what island their people are from, etc.
WI were the first Black folk I ever met who had an 'issue' with being called African American.

 

Dude that is bonehead statement.
As a west indian I will firmly tell you that we aren't black like the rest of you. We have a completely different culture rich with its own music, food, and history of slavery. We don't have the same history of fatherless homes, drug abuse, or under education. The last three I listed wasn't to mock or degrade anyone but to illustrate home life was completely different me and most of the Jamaican kids I knew than those that were African American.
I'm not looking to create a divide but I do want to point out everyone else gets to have culture except us and even when we do its desiginated to us from an outside entity. Italians get to be white and Italian same as Polish, Irish, Russians and other Europeans. So why are lumped into a small box with people who don't share anything with us other than skin tone. It's down right disrespectful.

 

I will say this much, the major difference I noticed when I came to America was the commitment to education in the inner city.

In the Caribbean culture education is first and foremost, its about being top of your class. Students take pride in that, no matter how rich or poor you are, academics is vital.

Having gone through both educational systems I can reference it.

I was stunned in 1992 when I started going to a Junior High School in Brooklyn at the way the kids conducted themselves, cursing the teachers, pushing teachers down the stairs, concerned about who is wearing the fliest gear and kicks, stealing lunch from each other in the lunch room, students constantly fighting each other after school.

It wasn't as bad as Morgan Freeman in Lean On Me, but just as shocking.

I wasn't accustomed to seeing those things in an institution of learning. It was eye opening.

I just believe many West Indians are reflecting coming from a different cultural and value system.

Of course being the kind of person I am, who is very open minded, I realized there are many other factors at work when we talk about the Black American Experience, as a history grad I recognize the factors at play over centuries of social, economical, political policies that were designed to keep blacks chained post slavery.

As far as internally this is not something Caribbean blacks have had to deal with in that they are the majority in their country, unlike in America.

 

The reason I don't consider my friends from African countries or the islands as 'African-American' is because they come from distinctly identifiable land masses with histories and cultures. Even black people from the islands have a clearer sense of their African cultures of origin and the contributions to their countries of those African groups than we do generally in the US. I consider them Nigerian-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, Puerto Rican-Americans, Haitian-Americans, Brazilian-Americans, etc. We do, however, shall the commonality of being children of the greater African Diaspora.

Having a large amount of friends from abroad or who are first-generation, I understand the pride they feel, as well as the sense of some degree of difference from US-born black people. There is a HUGE difference in cultures when you come from a culture where you are in the majority and your very essence isn't demeaned or held in contempt. It allows for a tremendous sense of self-pride and a belief in their own sense of accomplishment. That's why many people from such countries are proud, even when their countries have significant problems of underdevelopment, poverty and crime. They have had black presidents, doctors, scientists, navigators and business magnates. They don't need a Black History Month, because their history is replete with such accomplishments. In the US, we spent much of our history here just trying to validate our right to exist and be regarded as homosexual Sapiens. They have problems and baggage too, just not that kind of baggage. In my opinion we can learn a lot from each other.

For racists the only relevant datum is that we are black (read: of identifiably African ancestry), period. No matter how light, dark or anything in between. But personally, I take no offense to anyone wanting to highlight their own proud history and traditions. In fact, I enjoy partaking and sharing in them with them. So dude, who's got the curried monkfish and when's the next palo mayimbe session?

 

absolutely brilliant. Rep coming

 

:smt023

Very well said, like TDK stated reps on the way for this bro.

That is one of the biggest issues blacks have faced, they are not a majority in America, opportunities were legally denied to them as a social strategy, laid out in policies made by the ruling majority.

The legacy of slavery
Separate but "un"Equal
Jim Crow Laws
A significant percentage of the population in environments, rife with poverty, unemployment and the only way by is being in gangs and slinging drugs
Lack of access to higher education on a wide scale, whether because of poor academic settings, performance levels or lack of financial resources or a combination of those.

I watched the show yesterday "American Gangster" about Melvin Williams from Baltimore who "The Wire" is based on.

[YOUTUBE]XimDjRxoNg0[/YOUTUBE]

It showed me drugs weren't introduced into the black community by any mere coincidence. There are powerful individuals who lay behind these antics. Cointel along with Iran Contra, which tacitly allowed the introduction of crack into black communities in LA.

You have the manufacturers, suppliers, distributors, dealers and users all in a long chain.

 

I don't have anything against West Indians or Caribbean Black folk BTW.:smt039

Some of my best friends are West Indian!lol

Yes they are from a distinct culture and historical legacy, it's not something that was stripped from them or is anecdotal.
Personally I think the infusion of Black immigrants into the modern Black American population is a positive if anything, primarily because they bring a different perspective about WHO they are and WHAT they are capable of accomplishing.

They aren't as a rule a psychologically broken people, again from my experience,(the 'white man' is holding me down and not letting me do shit, etc.:smt106).

The term 'African American' or 'Black' is more a term of solidarity not dismissive IMO.
Nothing wrong with being identified as AA but still pulling someone aside letting them know your immediate family is from Trinidad or Jamaica.

However no matter how long your people have been living in the Caribbean or American South, ultimately it's not where Black folk are originally from.

THe ancestral homeland is still Africa.

 

That first line sounds like the classic liberal racist response "My college roommate was black" lol
Like I've said earlier no one else is strapped with that ridiculous responsibility of recognizing continent or country of origin the way we are. No one forces native Americans to recognize their Asian roots as a result of crossing Baring Straight. People recognize the culture they made hear for themselves. Same with Italians who came from Gual. How many centuries does one have to practice a way of life before it can be truly their own to you. And to be fair we all come from Africa yet people who look like me and you are the only ones told that we have to identify with that. No matter how long we've practiced another way of life. Shit like that is the ingenius nature of racism. You won't be trapped by geography classs or frame of mind but by skin. A prison inescapable whose chains are passed on from generation to generation whether you want it to or not.

 

Yep seeing blacks no matter where they are from in that African foci, allows them to be labelled with one broad stroke of "niggerdom" by the cavalcade of bigots in their simplified, ignorant way of thinking.

As has been stated by Naija, Africa has hundreds of languages, customs and cultures up and down the length and breadth of the continent.

Some blacks in Africa share as much in common with each other as a Finnish Caucasian person shares with a French Caucasian, skin color and the same continent, that is it at the most.

The terms are all devised for the simple convenience of hierarchical racial stratification. It reminded me of that white kid that would always ask you about the latest rap album or try to talk in faux ebonics because you were black and so assume that is how you roll.

 

Some Black Americans think they can rally around that though.

 

Right on. Another possible factor for their lack of identification with 'African-American' as such is that most other black populations on earth have a LOT more African elements in their cultures than we do, largely because we were in the minority and much of our ancestral cultural practices were outlawed under penalty of torture or death. Perhaps we just don't feel as 'African' to people of African descent. I love the infusion of other populations into this country, as these perspectives can be refreshing and empowering for black people born here. I have always felt that a strong healthy self-concept is difficult to develop in a place built on your oppression and degradation.

He's not my favorite person or anything, but Colin Powell talked about this in his autobiography about the differences between his attitude toward racism and self-confidence and that of his African-American comrades in the military. Growing up Jamaican played a part in his strong sense of self. There are many African-Americans with this same strong sense of self, but it is developed in the face of overwhelming obstacles to it. For this, we should applaud those folks.

But all that being said, it's racist as hell to have us have to constantly justify our right to exist, and then, when we do assert an identity and attempt to build ourselves up, we're called 'reverse racists'.

 

Preach on bro.

That is something I wholeheartedly comprehend, in what Powell is saying.

If you are a young black male and you live in the inner city and you don't talk a certain way or wear certain clothing your friends would likely look at you like

You know the old lines, you sound white washed, oreo or something of that nature. Lot of young black kids are deeply influenced by that growing up.

You have to present yourself a certain way, where is the individualism, the I will define me approach as oppose to what Lil Wayne, Waka Flocka and years ago Jay and 50 were rapping about.

When you come from a different cultural background you aren't as encumbered by that. You can appreciate aspects of Black American culture but you don't feel the need to let it define you to conform to what others think you should be doing as an authentic black person.

 

Truth, because your definition of 'black' isn't shaped by what happens or happened in the US.

"Free your mind, your ass will follow"

 

So true. I struggled with this most of my life. Especially since I date ww my "authenticity" was always being challenged. And when you're young and don't have a lot of people to show (not just tell you) there's ways to identify with being black outside of sports and entertainment shit can be rough. Searching for who you are can be such a tough endeavor but more so when people are constantly trying to tell you who you are.
i'm working on other projects but anyonre who is a talented writer on the forum can easily turn this conversation into a great book. So many young black males desperately need this.

 

There's a book on this by Na'Im Akbar, Chains and Images of Psychological Slavery. I'm always a bit skeptical of Arab/Islam-centric Black Empowerment texts, however, as they were as involved in East African slavery as Europeans were in the West-African context. Also, not that crazy about the manufactured cultural studies approach of the Kwanzaa crowd. With so many rich actual cultures, why invent one?

 

He said it ironically.

 

A

Ahhhh ok I missed that