No one's talking about Steubenville?

Well, we all should push for radical empowerment of all social groups within a society. The ability to brutalize or exploit any segment of society is directly proportionate to their relative powerlessness vis-a-vis other members of society. Hate to keep flogging a dead horse here, but generally speaking, the countries where women are more empowered in society have lower rates of such abuses. It's a problem that is species-wide, though, not wholly unique to any one country.

 

So you're saying its an enforcement issue? Like we actually need more people enforcing the law to make this happen less?

 

I think it's more an issue of ensuring women's rights, to prevent it from happening in the first place, rather than after the fact. I know it's not easy. Our culture in this country is heavily dependent on perpetuating the existing narrative, one of traditional culture, values, morays, etc (to a frightening degree given the fact that we're among the most scientifically advanced cultures in some areas, definitely not in all of them) to justify the status quo. We should all work to change that.

 

What rights are women being denied? I feel completely lost on this topic because my understanding is that rape is illegal, assaulting people (women) is illegal, denying access and protection based on gender is illegal. I'm not a lawyer like you so maybe you can enlighten me because from what I see we seem to be in a very pro-woman culture. Like the fact that if two people are drunk and have sex only the woman can claim she didn't give consent and the man is held liable. In domestic disputes, as far as I've seen, men are the ones usually pulled out of the home and taken to jail. It may be where I live but the law seems very pro-woman. I'm willing to learn and be informed but its incredibly difficult to cosign certain assertions when everyday life is such a huge contradiction. Nearly every time that I've have dated a pretty blonde girl (I'm assuming they may mistake brunettes for latina) the cops pull me over and without fail have asked the girl if she was there of her own free will. I'm sure its probably unique to the world of IR dating but like I said from where I sit women are coveted and protected only second to small children.

 

Absolutely to your last line! Your whole post pretty much summed it up well.

In the store I also make sure not to leave my pocketbook vulnerable, or if it's in my shopping-cart I'll secure it by looping the cart's harness so a thief can't snatch and run.

Walking at night, my only main fear is being robbed/mugged (since I have been). Rape is the last thing I'm thinking. I don't get that vibe, even when a man approaches me with a compliment. I have tried to think back in my travels all over this world if I have ever worried about imminent rape and I can honestly say no, with perhaps one exception while in Athens (it's a crazy story too! ).

IDK, rape fear just does not invade my thoughts. However if I go by the mantra in this thread it should, particularly since I have been in so many situations outlined in here where I'm told rape is most likely to happen. And it just isn't. And tbh, I really don't want to start thinking that way either. Men get a bad enough rap as it is.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bliss again.

 

No. Some of you are in this thread making this shit into a man vs women issue. It's not. It's a human issue. Rape, just like murder is an act of disrespect and disregard for human life. Period. Even if you're a man or a woman and you don't directly feel that rape is some rampant problem, it's still a problem and may effect someone you know. All Pixie and other woman who have come in this speaking on this are saying is just to make more people aware of how some people both male and female regard rape as low priority and even a joke. No one is in this thread is even saying to lock and load on motherfuckers as a solution to the problem, just be more enlightened or enlighten others. That's the point am getting at. But thanks again for trying to play one up and "win the debate", even though I'm not even playing that bullshit and never do. SMDH.

 

Thank you for understanding.

 

And you believe we weren't aware of this before?
I'm all for venting and discussing an issue but her and Huntress paint this picture that women are never safe since most rapes are from people they don't know. They created this cloud of suspicion that all men can not be trusted because just when you thought some dude was safe he forgets that it's not right to rape and forces himself on her. I'm not trying to be mean about it but other women have called it fear mongering as well. Even when suggestions like being more aware of your surroundings or altering their behavior the response is "we shouldn't have to". Well no fucking duh, we shouldn't live in a world where someone might just beating the shit out of you because they don't like the way you look but we do and you should prepare accordingly. Not to diminish what they or any woman goes through, but to through up stats that paint this false reality that in every man awaits a rapist dying to get out doesn't help anyone. I don't think it was their intention to do so but it does come across that way. We know it happens and dialogue is very important but it should be dialogue meant to educate and help not just information that scares the crap of people. If I were a woman I wouldn't dare leave the house without a weapon, how on earth can you feel safe for second when you have to be suspicious of everyone from your dad to the mailman.

 

If that's what you got put of everything we said, you are wrong. You missed the point. Go back and read it again, especially the post i made last night. I explained to you, again, what rape culture is. You're getting wrapped up in thinking rape culture is like when we talk about pop culture, where things are popular and present and trendy. They are not the same thing. They do not mean the same thing. Read it again.

 

We have an illegal drug culture in the U.S., even though narcotics are illegal.

We have criminal justice system that traditionally views white collar crimes,(fraud, finance theft, etc,) as less damaging to society than violent crime or drug offenses. That's why none of the major players in the mortgage securities fraud that nearly collapsed Wall Street have still not been prosecuted.

We as a society tolerate illegal immigration.
We live in a culture that tolerates outright lying by politicians.

We have behaviors in our society that are spoken out against publicly, but privately are tolerated or allowed to perpetuate.

Some of these behaviors are so ingrained they become institutional, until most people without thinking about these behaviors aren't aware to the extent they exist.

It's awful to read what happened to Huntress, but I would bet those young men at the time weren't hardened criminals or psychopaths. IMO they saw taking sexual advantage as crimes of opportunity. The mindset that a single woman alone can be forced to have sex, or that she wants to have sex with you because she invited you over, is a manifestation of rape culture.

No not all guys would have sexually assaulted a woman in the same circumstances, but there are some men because of what they've been taught by peers or parents take the signals they think they're getting as a sign that a woman wants to have sex. Even if she says no.

There's still a belief in American society that a woman wants sex from man even if she doesn't say that she wants it. If only you press her hard enough, the belief goes, you can make a woman 'willingly' submit.

This used to be a standard romantic theme in golden age Hollywood movies; a man clutches and kisses a woman, she vainly tries to fight him off before giving in to his amorous advances.
LOL. Um, in the real world that looks a lot like rape.

You don't see scenarios play out that much in movies anymore, because of the message it sends.

When you consider how many women experience (acquaintance)rape in their lifetimes, which is basically a theft and physical assault where the perpetrator is KNOWN by the victim, and you realize how few assailants are ever prosecuted or found guilty, it becomes apparent we live in a society that has a high tolerance for rape crimes against women.

 

lol, you get offended easily, and you often throw zingers in your posts, but I was just trying to get you to clarify, like you, I was not in the debate. anyway the threads become more enlightening when a thought or idea is challenged, because it provokes more thought, kinda like democracy. thanks

 

This is exactly my point. Thank you for articulating it better than I've been able to do so far.

 

Awesome, awesome post.

No matter how many ads there are for "No means no", stuff like what happened to many of the women in this thread will still happen on a daily basis.

And I believe part of the reason is that women are so objectified in this culture.

When you have restaurants named Hooters and Tilted Kilt and Twin Peaks (ARE YOU KIDDING ME???) not only existing but EXPANDING their base, there's objectification of women.

When you have Hollywood movies who show women's boobs in nearly every single movie (I'm exaggerating to make a point) and there are RARELY scenes of a man's naked butt in movies, it shows how objectified women are in this culture.

None of this helps to show women as being equal to men. None of it. And the women who participate are just as guilty as the men, but in this economy, it's a nice paycheck, so you almost can't blame them for it. Almost.

And if a woman dares to become CEO of a company, how many times is it "assumed" she slept her way to the top? Does it happen? Absolutely. But does it happen in every case? I would venture to say, not likely.

Women are seen as the epitome of sexuality and while that thinking is prevalent, there will always be these types of problems. Men who see women as only one thing: some place to put their dick.

Women are just as smart as men and are capable of running companies and COUNTRIES, making scientific discoveries, you name it.

And until women are truly seen as people and not objects of desire, we won't advance as a society.

 

Okay, sorry for the scrambled logic to my previous post. I was falling asleep and rather than just wait until the morning to post, I tried to weigh in, with little success, lol.

Okay, on the good points you raised. With regard to alcohol and rape, the man could make just as plausible a case for rape if he got to the police first. There have been women convicted of raping men (albeit not many), but for various cultural/gender norms, views on masculinity, etc, men don't press charges, unless they were raped by men, which has its own set of taboos that serve to keep reporting to a minimum. The key to the crime of rape are that there was unwanted, non-consensual sexual contact. Whoever feels violated is free to press charges.

As for domestic violence there are several factors: 1) the elements of the crimes of assault and battery are the intent to commit, or the commission in the case of battery, of an unwanted or offensive contact. To claim self-defense, either party has to show that they had a "reasonable" fear for their safety. It's hard for a 6'0" 200lb man to say that a 5'4" 130lb woman caused him a "reasonable" fear for his safety. Thus, when the police come, the man is usually taken away. Doesn't mean he can't beat it in court, but the officers are empowered to make the determination on the scene of who presents the greater danger to who. There is as much social and racial bias in the examples you describe as there is an operation of the law. I totally sympathize, because I have been given the "Ma'am, are you okay?" treatment as well.

Also many of these laws (they are changing in most jurisdictions, some more slowly than others) that appear biased in favor of women actually stem from the presumption of powerlessness on the part of the woman. Thus, they're sort of the flipside of the historical oppression of women as property (which has been around a LOT longer than the women's liberation movement). Laws are slowly beginning to shift toward gender neutrality, even in the case of child custody.

I agree. It's a human issue, period. Perpetuated by those with power against those without (or with relatively less power).

 

Well I must admit I live on a totally different planet because I seriously just dont see it. Theres no denying rape happens its a fact plain and simple but when Boba compares it to illegal drugs I cant make the connection. There arent movies like Scarface or Blow or Paid In Full where the main characters are involved in rape the ways these dudes are invilved in drugs amd the audience actually cheers on the protagonist. I think of movies like Training Day where the cops preventsa rape and its what saves his life or that movie when Jodie Foster got gang raped and everyone found it cringe worthy or even as recent as the movie Compliance which had a scene so uncomfortable people literally got up and left. Tje Golden Age of Hollywood was over 50 years ago movies that saturate the mainstream now dont have that kind of disrespect towards women anymore they wouldnt make money. I will admit I do remember Peppy Le Pue being completely inappropriate as a kid but its as far as it went.
As to Booke's point about women being objectified in certain business if we lived in a world abundant with opportunity I'd agree but there arent even jobs for people wuth education and training and the fact that theycan make a decent living at a place that requires no education or training is pretty awesome to me. It may suck but its a lot mpre than most people can get right now. And Ive frequented Hooters in the past and those girls are VERY well talen care of as far as security and wages. They are the main attraction so they are protected. I never understood why they dont have male versions of these places. Women and the gay community would male that shit a multimillion dollar business.. Also to your point that women can do anything men can do in bisiness well youre right but the plain and simple fact is mqny simply choose not in favor of having families which limit their career path a lot. So its not that there is this widespread denial of womens ability to lead they just dont choose to in a lot of cases.
I really like reading what you guys have to say. A differentperspective is always welcomed.

 

True, but Hooters has been around since 1983 (I just checked).

And why do think they need to be protected?

I don't get it either.

Not to harp, but women are still, in this day and age, being "punished" for making babies. So we're always going to be the "lesser" sex because we have the ability to start families. Which is ridiculous that women are still viewed that way.

Just sayin'.

 

The need to be protected just like they protect other income generating assets. Think entertainers and sports players.
Well to be fair in terms of women having babies... dont have babies if you want to advance quicker. I know it sounds unfair but it comes down to how much time is being devoted to the job. If you can only invest 40hrs and I invest 60 should you advance as quickly as I do? Or just have kids with a guy who wants to stay home.

 

Same reason why clubs often let women in free and not men. It is a better business decision.

 

It doesn't have to be cheered on by onlookers to be part of the culture of a place. The objectification of women is central to most of human society on the planet, stemming from the primitive past without people actually cheering on rape. The view that women are the property of men is still implicit in most cultures, with the examples too numerous to list. Relatively decent compensation for working in Hooters does not obviate the fact that it is a venue built around the casual male consumption of a woman's beauty as an object to be bought and sold. A few (admittedly oversimplified) examples:

1) Man and wife
2) Mr. and Mrs. (insert husband's family's surname); woman taking husband's surname instead of the reverse

3) tendency to show nude women more than men in film (esp. US films)

You don't have to say "Yeah, rape!" to be complicit in the objectification of women. There is overt sanction against rape in society, but the underlying women's objectification continues unabated. As does the social acceptance and rationalization of male violence (Boys will be boys) as okay. And it's not only in the case of women. One only has to look at the difficulty in mounting a broad-based attack on bullying in this country. Male warrior culture is openly encouraged and then people recoil when it produces abhorrent results. The US is ostensibly pro-woman compared to retrograde cultures like that of Afghanistan, but women do not have the same freedom of mobility and opportunity as men, relatively high wages for working semi-nude notwithstanding.