Is Sex the Only Thing that Holds BM/WW Relations Together?

I can see where the commonality between ww and bm for the reasons bronze discussed would have an impact on ww/bm relationships. I think that's going to depend on age and environment to a great extent though. FSP may not have experienced the struggles in the workplace but many of us have.

Whereas there was discussion about bw and wm having common ground...I see bm and ww having common ground. Obviously it's a sweeping generalization, but both bm and ww face many obstacles (still today) in the work place. We work harder for less, the same, and more than others. Obviously we could discuss that bw also have these struggles. But, at least from what I've seen, there isn't the same battle between ww and bm as there often seems to be between bm and bw.

I've heard over and over again in my life how many black women are so angry towards black men. Maybe they are justified, maybe not.

Now I'm going to say something that is definitely not PC but oh well. Personally from my experiences, I think one of the major differences between white men and black men has to do with gender role confusion. LOL Ok I better explain that....what I have noticed is that wm tend to be much more confused about being a man and what that means to them and to others. Maybe white women have created that - I don't know. It just seems to me that many white men have a tough time knowing who they are as men and being confident in that. I sometimes think in the struggles to make things more equal people have mistakenly thought that means to be the same. Men and women are different - that's a good thing. What I have seen is that bm are pretty clear that women are different and they comfortable and confident in who they are as men and they celebrate the differences.

My experience has been that bm are not afraid to be men. And in that, it allows women to be women. That may mean feeling more feminine, etc.

Whether people fight it or not...I think there are some things that are just part of nature. Men have a need to protect and care for women. Women have a need to be protected and cared for. I will say in all ways...I realize that will cause some upset for some....but take a look in your own lives and really be honest and I will bet that at least in some ways this is true. What I have experienced is that in many bm/ww relationships this is pretty clear. There isn't a battle going on between the two over control. There isn't all this confusion and fighting over who has control. It's about taking care of one another and supporting each other. Sure that means in the bedroom too.

 

You wrote:

"Hmmm, while your statement about fighting for rights is true, I am not sure it has any actual effect on the bm/ww relationship. For instance, I have grown up with the right to vote, the right to work, etc... While I am cognizant of how precious those rights are and the fight that took place to get them, I don't personally identify with the women who fought for them."

Yeah. And we should both thank KNCA when we have a chance as she corrrectly pointed something out: There are some generation differences between those of us that recall how difficult it was for women to even have careers of their own.

Thankfully, it's not that way anymore. But, as KNCA correctly points out, there is still a tremendous amount of quiet, subtle discrimination against women, especially within small companies (I've seen this firsthand as I was part of an all male division for years - even though I'm a BM - that finally hired it's first woman just last year). Many BM know what it's like to be overlooked for a position even though they may be ten times better than the WM promoted.

This does not happen as much as it once did because the amount of money a company can lose by doing this can be into the millions (if not BILLIONS) of dollars, esp. in the global marketplace of today. (I'm not talking about a lawsuit...I'm talking about losing business because that BM or WW overlooked was just that good).

But, there still are a lot of dumb companies out there that have yet to learn this lesson.

So, yeah, BM and WW do share this ongoing battle of outsmarting WM or even establishing their own companies and letting their talents flourish without anyone trying to slow them down.

"My point is, that commonality would have no bearing on my feelings for any bm, because it isn't one that I have experienced personally."

Are you sure that you have not experienced discrimination???? I hope you're right.

"In addition, bw would have been a part of both of the 'wars' that you describe above. But I don't understand the two sentences put together. How does the struggle for civil rights put wm and bw at war?"

I'm not saying that the struggle for civil rights put WM and BW at war TODAY. I'm saying that it has...historically. And even a lot of very young BW know this, making them a lot more cautious of WM.

You have to understand American history to know what I'm talking about. It's too difficult to even write about.

Lets just say that BW have had this history of terrible abuse passed down from generation to generation (abuse at the hands of WM). Mothers pass this to their daughters in order to warn them...even today. This makes it very difficult for some BW to enter trusting relationships with WM. If you can find a few 30 something year old BW friends, ask them about it. Some will say "no problem"...others will tell you their fears.

Even today, some studies indicate that when a BW is the victim of a WM, the victimization is often much worse than if she were attacked by someone else. True or not, this points to a much more difficult relationship than one involving a BM and WW.

You can easily see this in movies. One can easily name a BM movie star as there are a number of them.

Hollywood is still very much controlled by older WM. Can you name just a handful...just FIVE BW movie stars? How about five in the entire history of Hollywood? You see what I mean about this wierd relationship between WM and BW?

I can't see BM being so scared of WW and limiting their talents in this way.

Don't get me wrong. There are a ton of very happy WM/BW relationships and marriages. And I hope they grow in number so that they can BOTH get over their feelings of jealousy and envy (and even guilt) in the United States.

But, right now, WM still have major, sometimes silent hangups about this and BW deal with it in much the same way.

 

Well said. God's honest truth, too.

 

bronzesaint - I guess I was speaking out against the manner in which you romaticized bm/ww relationships by reaching for 'an us against theme' statement. Not very well, but that is where I was going.

I am well aware discrimination still occurs and never said that it doesn't. I have worked in many different jobs and have experienced the subtle discrimination. But that discrimination is also experienced by bw, maybe even more so b/c they get it doubled in that regard. There isn't any reason why employment discrimination should serve to bring together ww and bm anymore than it does bw bm.

However, in regard to my 'commonality' statement. I know that bm and bw experience discrimination on a level that I can not fully understand simply b/c I am white. No amount of listening to a black friend describe the experience can put me in their shoes. In that way, I can never identify with my (imagnary) black b/f. In a way, to say that I fully identify with a black man or woman b/c I earn 70 cents on the dollar compared to a wm is to demean the feelings of a black person who, say, has woken up to find a noose on their door. There isn't a comparison. So, no, I don't have that commonality.

Further, that 'skin' discrimination (as opposed to emp. disc.), if anything, should serve to push bm and bw closer. That is hasn't is open for discussion, but it's obvious that is the commonality of strength if we are compairing.

Lastly, I do not appreciate your suggesting I do not understand history and as such, cannot understand your statement about bw and wm being at war. There was no way I could have known that you did not mean at war 'today' since you didn't write it. I know that communicating this way (on-line) is imperfect, and I'm guilty of not fully expressing myself, too - see my clarification above. But I never would have suggested you would need to understand, say how a corporation works, to understand what I mean about employment discrimination. My assumption you don't understand it would be insulting, no? And I'm not looking to make an enemy of you but do feel you could have not made that statement and still gotten your point across. :wink:

 

fnnysmrtptty:

I did not mean to upset you or imply that you lacked knowledge. If, for any reason, you thought I was doing so, I apologize. That was not my intention.

I was trying to make a point and perhaps my straightforward, Philly way of having a discussion might give some the impression that I'm demeaning them. That was not my intention with you at all. When I'm doing business, I can be a very harsh SOB when trying to get my point across. So, maybe I did not fully retire into the weekend before writing you.

Yes, I'm well aware that bw also suffer from discrimination (obviously). What I was saying is that SOME bm and ww have this in common and it can draw the two together. I was not comparing this kind of relationship to bm and bw. I was comparing it to wm and bw.

If bw are suffering from dicrimination (and other things) at the hands of wm, it certainly can't HELP that relationship; the relationship between wm and bw. As a BM, I can tell you that BW have told me this for the last 20 years. It's a simple fact that many BW express this feeling frequently...privately.

That's what I was trying to point out.

I was not trying to be insulting...LOL. Maybe I've spent too much time doing business in Philly and Oakland, CA to know the difference anymore (perhaps).

If you met me away from this site, you'd know that's not my game.

I know that I can raise hell. But, I only do that when I'm working...not in real life....most of the time.

 

BM are not members of the good ol' boy's club..You should know that..

We are seen as competition and a threat..

You being a WW trumps anything about being a BM in this "Country"..You should know that as well..

WM would rather have a pretty sister walking around the office than a studly,handsome BM..You best believe that.

 

I do not have much to contribute to this discussion as i feel most has been said but i'll tell you this - sex, whilst not the only factor that bonds black men and white women, is a very intertwined factor. Now i know some are already cocking their AK-47s ready to shoot me, but hear me out. Have you noticed that when many, not all but certainly many, white women are asked something about black men that they admire, physical features certainly come into play?

Think about that.

 

You got some vaild points here, KnCA. I don't think we should be PC on this forum anyway. I think the difference you see between the masculinity of wm and bm has to do with the fact bm who date ww have a certain "boldness" to them that wm don't have or need when they date ww. One of the facets of a "real" man is that he will pursue what he believes are worthwhile goals and accomplishments regardless of what others may think about him doing so. So many bm started with the fascination of being with ww and now we are now at the point where we could care less what other peole think about us dating ww because we want what we believe is the woman who is the total package: a white woman. There is something about having a ww on my arm that gives me a sense of "manliness" that I don't get with other women. The beauty and grace of a ww's femininity can be inspire the complementary bm's masculinity. No matter what, bm who date ww will get heat from somewhere and men who do it regardless of what the haters think are showing some serious balls.

Many white women pick up on this and they like the strong assertiveness that many bm display for them. I think why so many ww, including the ladies on this forum, state having a much more passionate sexual experience with bm has to do with bm displaying their masculinity in the bedroom. A lot of bm and ww have devolped a clear understanding of what they both want in each other regarding their roles in and out of the bedroom and when that chemistry is established, it is dynamite!

 

Is Sex The ONLY THING?..............

-Exceprt from Beauty's quote.





Beauty, I was directing my response to what I thought was the beginning of this thread.Apologies for any misunderstanding, and please read below:

-Black Tiger, commenting on what he /she has heard critics say about BM/WW relations.




Not your post,.I was saying that the idea that sex is the only thing holding bm/ww relationships together is ridiculous. It was in response to what I thought was the initial post in this thread, not you.

-Black Master Jay, excerpted quote.


This I don't understand, because no white female partner of mine ever had to change into something she wasn't;and vice versa.I'm surprised Black Master would say something like this, because he's a young, good looking, educated guy with a good head on his shoulders in most cases.Jay, if you're really operating under a premise like this, are you sure this board is the best place for you, brother?
Just my opinion.

 

No worries, we're good! It's hard to know what kind of inflection is in a post sometimes... consider our 'spat' over before it began!! :wink:

Hey wedlock! I was thinking jay was being sarcastic....

 

Jealousy is a pet pieve of mine. I have had white guys get jealous and resentful when they see me dating a black man. Like somehow he is taking one of "their" women! Excuse me, but I was never yours to begin with. Just because we were both born white doesn't give you some claim on me. I choose not to date white men. That is my choice. Deal with it.

It is too bad though that you don't see more WM/BW relationships. But I guess, if the chemistry isn't there for them.

 

It is gradually becoming more common and I say it's all good. BM/WW relationships outnumber WM/BW 3:1 and I'm not surprised by that. I've had a few brothers comment to me they don't like it when a bw dates a wm, but I could care less because I'm too busy enjoying being with a ww.

 

Seriously, we Americans need to get over ourselves already. The issue of race is really fucking up our mentality.

Which reminds me, i remember seeing yesterday some cable station which frequently shows British TV programmes, don't remember the name exactly. It had this show called "Hollyoaks" or something. Then there was this brotha dating this white girl. Apparently, their relationship was kinda fucked up, but then as dude turned to go away, she grabbed his hand and gave him the hottest kiss i've ever seen on TV. And i sat there thinking, "The chances of seeing that on any American network are as probable as hell freezing over in three hours".

Goes to show you the contrast between our views on race compared with the rest of the world.

 

I'll admit, at first, it WAS the sex that brought us together. Our sex life was awesome, still is. We use to crave for each other, as soon as she closed her apartment door, we'd start ripping each other's clothes off. Many times we never even made it to the bed, end up doing it right there on the floor, up against the wall or her bent over a table. We had it bad for each other.

However, what has kept our relationship strong have been the other things that we have in common. Her and I still have some awesome sex sessions but that isn't the focal point of our relationship.

 

You know...the more I meet people from Europe and GB, the more they tell me the US sucks and one of the most racially intolerant places they have been. It makes me wonder what am I missing over there.

 

I'm not sure that Europe is really that much more racially tolerant than the US....Europe is a bit more racially homogenous than the US so racial conflict isn't going to be as noticeable since no minority group has a significant enough population to stir up a lot of noise....(Mississippi in 1907 or Russia in 2007....close call don't ya think) The more immigration Europe sees...the more "nativist" some segments of the population will become


As for the sexual attraction w/BM and WW......well BW and WM are very confident in what they have to offer the opposite sex (nothing wrong with that)...however when they lose out on a mate of their race to someone of a different race...its a shot to the ego...so they must justify the relationship by saying that its purely built on lust and not genuine interest (not all BW and WM are like this)

I agree w/one of the earlier posts....WW and BM have a lot of natural chemistry...WM and BW understand each other well because they have engaged in forced interaction (rape during slavery)...and unforced interaction for centuries...but WW and BM are like two creatures sniffing each other out......if there weren't so many hangups about race in our society I'd bet WW and BM relationships would challenge any same race relationship in terms of frequency of occurence

 

I think you're right about Europe. Some countries like France have shown some backlash against immigrants, many of them from Africa, because of their increased numbers in those countries. I think Frances' president is conservative and seems to be down on more Africans coming to his country but I could be wrong. If I had to live in another country besides the US, I'd got to Canada first because they as a whole are definitely more accepting of bm/ww relationships than people here.

 

Like I said before: There's only good and bad relationships, irregardless of color.

This board is a good example: Some members tell us about lives filled with love and companionship and others are fixatied on the sex/race part.

 

Good Point! I never considered to homogeneous nature of the European countries. I guess the only way to find out is start traveling the world and see for myself whats out there.