Immortal Cells...Who would have known?

and there's more

Covert Vaccine Experiments

Using kids as guinea pigs in potentially harmful vaccine experiments is every parents' worst nightmare. This actually happened in 1989-1991 when Kaiser Permanente of Southern California and the US Centres for Disease Control (CDC) jointly conducted a measles vaccine experiment. Without proper parental disclosure, the Yugoslavian-made "high titre" Edmonston-Zagreb measles vaccine was tested on 1,500 poor, primarily black and Latino, inner city children in Los Angeles. Highly recommended by the World Health Organisation (WHO), the high-potency experimental vaccine was previously injected into infants in Mexico, Haiti, and Africa. It was discontinued in these countries when it was discovered that the children were dying in large numbers.

Unbelievably, the measles vaccine caused long-term suppression of the children's immune system for six months up to three years. As a result, the immunodepressed children died from other diseases in greater numbers than children who had never received the vaccine. Tragically, African girl babies in the experiment were given twice the dose of boys, and therefore suffered a higher death rate. The WHO pulled the vaccine off the market in 1992.


Ironically, the E-Z measles vaccine tested by Kaiser on minority babies was supposed to increase immunity in younger infants. Instead, the vaccine produced the opposite effect. A Los Angeles Times editorial (June 20, 1996) assured readers that "none of the 1,500 was injured by the unlicensed vaccine" and called upon the CDC to ensure that experiments like the E-Z measles vaccine could never occur again.

One wonders how many secret vaccine experiments are conducted by health authorities that never come to the attention of the public. During the two-year measles experiment I was employed by Kaiser and I never knew anything about it until I read the report in The Times five years later, in 1996.

In the poor inner cities across the United States the number of asthma cases is exploding and health officials don't know why. According to the CDC, 5000 asthma deaths occur annually; and it is estimated that 17.3 million people (4.8 million are children) suffer from the disease, up from 6.7 million in 1980. Asthma usually begins before age 6, and blacks are two to three times more likely to die from asthma than whites. In the Bronx and Harlem sections of New York City, the hospitalisation rate for asthma is 21 times higher than in the more affluent areas of the city.

Could the sharp rise in asthma in poor children be connected with immunosuppression caused by a barrage of vaccines, as well as a lack of quality medical care and insurance, poor diet, and environmental factors? The possible connection of immunosuppressive vaccines to diseases like asthma has never been raised by health officials.

With vaccine experiments frequently performed in Africa and now on black Americans, no wonder one out of every four African-Americans believes AIDS was developed as a genocide program by the US government to exterminate the black population.

But vaccine experiments in the 1990s have not been limited to blacks. Millions of female Mexicans, Nicaraguans and Filipinos have been duped into taking tetanus vaccines, some of which contained a female hormone that could cause miscarriage and sterilisation. In 1995, a Catholic human rights organisation called Human Life International accused the WHO of promoting a Canadian-made tetanus vaccine laced with a pregnancy hormone called human choriogonadotropic hormone (HCG).

Suspicions were aroused when the tetanus vaccine was prescribed in the unusual dose of five multiple injections over a three month period, and recommended only to women of reproductive age. When an unusual number of women experienced vaginal bleeding and miscarriages after the shots, a hormone additive was uncovered as the cause.

Apparently the WHO has been developing and testing anti-fertility vaccines for over two decades. Women receiving the laced tetanus shot not only developed antibodies to tetanus, but they also developed dangerous antibodies to the pregnancy hormone as well. Without this HCG hormone the growth of the fetus is impaired. Consequently, the laced vaccine served as a covert contraceptive device. Commissioned to analyse the vaccine, the Philippines Medical Association found that 20 percent of the WHO tetanus vaccines were contaminated with the hormone. Not surprisingly, the WHO has denied all accusations as "completely false and without basis," and the major media have never reported on the controversy. For further details on this issue, consult the Human Life International website (www.hli.org).

Newly approved vaccines may also pose serious risks. In October 1999 a vaccine against "rotavirus" infection (which causes most cases of childhood diarrhea) was pulled off the market. One year after the RotaShield vaccine was inoculated into over a million infants, it was found to increase the risk of bowel obstruction. Almost 100 cases of bowel obstruction were reported to the government, and twenty infants developed bowel obstructions within one or two weeks after receiving the vaccine.

 

continuing


Vaccine Manufacture and Associated Dangers

Although the public has heard about side effects of vaccines, most people are clueless about the manufacture of vaccines. Few people know that viruses used in vaccine production need to be grown on animal parts like monkey kidneys, or in chicken embryos, or in human and fetal "cell lines." Harvesting viruses in human cell-lines can be perilous because some human cell lines are derived from cancer cells.

In AIDS & The Doctors of Death I wrote about the development of the first human "HeLa" cell line - an "immortal" cell line used extensively in cancer and vaccine research for decades. Henrietta Lacks was a young black woman from Baltimore who died from a highly malignant cervical cancer in 1951. Small pieces of her tumour were donated to a laboratory specialising in tissue cell culture. In those days most attempts to grow human cells outside the body failed. But for some unknown reason Henrietta's cancer cells grew vigorously and became known as the first successful human tissue cell line in history - the now famous HeLa cell line commemorating the legendary HEnrietta LAcks.

Henrietta's cells were kept alive by feeding them a witches' brew of beef embryo extract (the ground-up remains of a three-week-old, unborn cattle embryo); fresh chicken plasma obtained from the blood of a live chicken heart; and blood from human placentas (the placenta is the sac that nurtures the developing fetus and contains powerful hormones).

It is now suspected that a sexually-transmitted papilloma virus is the cause of cervical cancer. And it is anybody's guess how many other chicken, cattle, and human viruses are incorporated into the HeLa cell line, but none of this possible viral contamination seems to bother scientists who have extensively used the cells in cancer research. What laboratory scientists did eventually discover was that HeLa cells proved so hardy that they frequently contaminated other tissue cell lines used in cancer and cancer virus research.

In the late 1960s when widespread HeLa cell contamination problems were uncovered, scientists were shocked and embarrassed to learn that millions of dollars worth of published cancer experiments were ruined. "Liver cells" and "monkey cells" that were used in cancer experiments turned out to be Henrietta's cancer cells in disguise. Benign cells that supposedly "spontaneously transformed" into malignant cells were found to be cells contaminated with cancerous HeLa cells.

The serious problem of HeLa cell contamination in cancer and vaccine research is revealed in Michael Gold's A Conspiracy of Cells: One Woman's Immortal Legacy and the Medical Scandal It Caused. Even Jonas Salk, who developed the legendary Salk polio vaccine, was fooled when HeLa cells contaminated his animal cell lines. He admitted this years later in 1978 before a stunned audience of cell biologists and vaccine makers. In experiments performed in the late 1950s on dying cancer patients, Salk tried injecting them with a cell line of monkey heart tissue - the same cell line he used to harvest polio virus for his famous vaccine. He hoped the monkey cell injections would stimulate the immune system to fight cancer. However, when abscesses developed at the site of injections, Salk began to suspect that he might be injecting HeLa cells rather than monkey cells, and he stopped the experiment.

Mark Nelson-Rees, a HeLa cell expert and one of the 1978 conference attendees, offered to test Salk's line if it was still available. Salk graciously agreed and the monkey cells indeed proved to be HeLa cells which had invaded and taken over the monkey cell line. According to author Gold, Salk thought there were adequate ways to separate viruses from the tissue cell lines they were harvested in, so that it really didn't matter what kind of cells were used. Even if vaccines weren't filtered, and even if whole cancer cells were injected directly into a human, Salk believed they would be rejected by the body and cause no harm. In those days doctors didn't much believe in cancer-causing viruses. Nowadays, no researcher would dare try injecting cancer cells into a human being. But in the 1950s Salk had done it accidentally. He had injected HeLa cells into a few dozen patients and it hadn't bothered him a bit.

Is There a Vaccine Contamination
Connection to AIDS?

Most people assume vaccines are "sterile" and germ free. But sterilising a vaccine can destroy the necessary immunising protein that makes it work. Thus, contaminating viruses or viral "particles" can sometime survive the vaccine process.

Animal viruses are also contained in fetal calf serum, a blood product commonly used as a laboratory nutrient to feed various tissue cell cultures. Vaccine contamination by fetal calf serum and its possible relationship to HIV was the subject of a letter by J. Grote, published in the Journal of the Royal (London) Society of Medicine in October 1988. Bovine visna virus (which looks similar to HIV) is a known contaminant of fetal calf serum used in vaccine production and virus-like particles have been detected in vaccines certified for clinical use. Grote warns that "It seems absolutely vital that all vaccines are screened for HIV prior to use, and that bovine visna virus is further investigated as to its relationship to HIV and its possible role in progression towards AIDS."

Could virus-contaminated vaccines lie at the root of AIDS? A few researchers, including myself, believe HIV was "introduced" into gays during the experimental hepatitis B vaccine trials when thousands of homosexuals were injected in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York, during the years 1978-1981.

The AIDS epidemic first erupted in gays living in those cities in 1981. In 1980, one year before, already 20% of the gays inoculated in Manhattan with the experimental vaccine were already HIV-positive. This was several years before definite AIDS cases were diagnosed in Africa. In the early 1970s the hepatitis B vaccine was developed in chimpanzees, now wildly accepted as the animal from which HIV supposedly evolved.

Hepatitis B vaccine was developed to protect people from the sexual spread of the hepatitis B virus. Now the government recommends that all newborn babies be given the vaccine [this is also the case in Australia]. Such recommendations do not make sense to many parents. And people are still fearful of the hepatitis B vaccine because of its original connection to gay men and AIDS. The original experimental vaccine was made from the pooled blood serum of hepatitis-infected homosexuals and, as mentioned, serum-based vaccines cannot be sterilised.

Another theory of AIDS is that HIV originated from polio vaccines contaminated with chimp and monkey viruses, and administered to Africans in the late 1950s. In The River: A Journey to the Source of HIV and AIDS, published in 1999, Edward Hooper details how polio vaccine was made using monkey (and possibly chimp) kidneys and how the ancestor virus of HIV could have jumped species (via the vaccine) to produce the outbreak of AIDS in Africa. Hooper's well-researched book greatly expands the polio vaccine theory of AIDS first reported by Tom Curtis in Rolling Stone magazine in 1992, and The River is a must-read for anyone interested in the possible man-made origin of AIDS.

Other researchers think it more likely that the various WHO-sponsored vaccine programs (particularly the smallpox program) in Africa in the 1970s are responsible for unleashing AIDS in Africa in the 1980s. Hooper, who has worked as a United Nations official, has discounted the research pointing to AIDS as a man-made disease, as proposed by Dr. Leonard Horowitz in Emerging Viruses, and in my two books AIDS & The Doctors of Death: An Inquiry into the Origin of the AIDS Epidemic and Queer Blood: The Secret AIDS Genocide Plot.

Horowitz and I both suspect contaminated smallpox vaccines as the source of HIV in Africa. Certainly the smallpox (vaccinia-cowpox) virus is an excellent virus to use for the genetic engineering of new, multipurpose vaccines. By splicing into the DNA genes of the vaccinia virus, scientists can add on parts of disease-producing viruses like influenza, hepatitis, and other viruses. The safety of this technique has not been fully evaluated, prompting one vaccine maker at a Vaccinia Virus Workshop in 1984 to ask if this could lead to another form of AIDS.

 

Last but not least


Vaccine Connection to Gulf War Illness and Huntsville Mystery Illness
The cause of Gulf War Illness (GWI) is unknown. For years this debilitating illness (which now affects one-half of the Gulf War vets) has been ignored by Pentagon officials who claim the disease does not exist and that vets are simply reacting to stress. GWI is also thought to be contagious. Vets insist their disease has been passed on to spouses, other family members, and even pets.

Some people suspect multiple vaccines, particularly the experimental anthrax vaccine, are implicated in the disease. Currently, soldiers who refuse to take the mandatory anthrax vaccine are being court-martialled and dismissed from the service.

Researchers Dr. Garth Nicolson and his wife Nancy have found a tiny bacterial microbe (a "mycoplasma") in the blood of nearly half the ill vets with GWI. Amazingly, this infectious agent has a piece of HIV (the AIDS virus) attached to it. This microbe could never have occurred naturally. On the contrary, the composition of the microbe suggests a man-made and genetically-engineered biological warfare agent.

Garth Nicolson's scientific credentials are impeccable. For 16 years he was a professor of medicine at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Centre in Houston, as well as professor of pathology and laboratory medicine at the University of Texas Medical School, also in Houston. Nancy Nicolson, a molecular biophysicist, was on the faculty at Baylor College of Medicine.

Six months after returning home from the Gulf War, the Nicolson's daughter contracted GWI. Her mother Nancy had contracted a similar illness in 1987 when she was working with Mycoplasma incognitus in infectious disease research. Finally suspecting that this research had biowarfare implications, Nancy Nicolson became a whistle-blower and angered officials. As a result, she believes she was deliberately infected with the mycoplasma. After partial paralysis and a long illness, she finally regained her health with the antibiotic Doxycycline.

The Nicolson's discovery of a similar mycoplasma (but without the attachment of HIV) in a mysterious illness that erupted in the Huntsville, Texas area among prison guards and their families has all the drama of a ‘Movie of the Week'. Although the Huntsville disease broke out in the late 1980s (shortly before the Gulf War), it has many of the same signs and symptoms of GWI. Many locals are convinced the sometimes deadly disease originally spread from prisoners incarcerated in several large prisons around Huntsville.

In experiments conducted during the 1970s and 80s, the prisoners were inoculated with flu vaccines containing genetically engineered viruses and mycoplasma. It is suspected that vaccines were being covertly developed and deployed as biological warfare weapons. Nobel prize winner James Watson, world famous for his discovery of the molecular structure of DNA and a leading researcher of the still ongoing Human Genome Project, was involved in these prison experiments. The guards are convinced the Huntsville mystery illness is intimately connected to these experiments, jointly conducted by the Medical School and the military. Like GWI, health officials deny the disease exists.

The Nicolsons continue to developed antibiotic treatments, which have helped some vets. But they have paid a heavy price for their controversial research and unprecedented discoveries. Garth Nicolson was forced to resign from M.D. Anderson in 1996. His career and reputation destroyed, the Nicolsons have since moved to California and head The Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach.

Dangerous Animal and Human Cell Lines
in Vaccine Manufacture

In an effort to quell concerns about the safety of vaccines, scientists are finally taking another look at the "non-infectious" particles of bird-cancer viruses (avian leukosis virus) in the mumps/measles/rubella vaccines routinely given to kids. Could this be the reason the US Federal Drug Administration held a meeting in September, 1999, to reconsider using human tumour cell lines (like HeLa) rather than monkey kidneys and chicken embryos which are no longer guaranteed 100% safe?

Writing in Science, Gretchen Vogel admits public trust in vaccines is a bit shaky. In Wales anti-vaccine parents are holding "measles parties" to infect their children with the disease rather than vaccinate them. She cites the danger of using immortal cell lines for live vaccine production because cancer genes or other hazardous factors might be transferred to people receiving vaccines. But manufacturers also realise vaccine critics are becoming more wary of vaccines made in animal and bird tissue. And vaccine makers want to use immortal cell lines to grow their viruses because obviously viruses can't grow on their own.

The big question everyone seems to avoid is: Can vaccines cause cancer? There is certainly evidence connecting contaminated vaccines to AIDS. And HIV is a cancer-causing virus. Robert Gallo, the co-discoverer of HIV in 1984, has clearly stated AIDS is an epidemic of cancer.

Animal and avian viruses can contaminate vaccines and have all been studied as cancer-causing agents. And cancer and vaccine research would be much more difficult without the use of cell lines, some of which are derived from cancer.

Vaccines and Public Paranoia
Is the fear of vaccines justified? It is clear that vaccines can be dangerous. The contamination of vaccines is a reality, and vaccine experiments can be hazardous to one's health. AIDS, unknown two decades ago, is now an increasing worldwide epidemic with millions of death predicted for the next decade. Could vaccines contaminated with cancer-causing and immunosuppressive viruses unleash new plagues in the New Millennium? If so, the new plagues may be far worse than the diseases we eradicated by vaccine programs in the twentieth century.


References

"Anti-diarrheal vaccine for babies recalled," Los Angeles Times, October 16, 1999.

Butel JS, Arrington AS, Wong C, et al.: Molecular evidence of simian virus 40 infections in children. J Infect Dis 180:884-887, 1999.

Cantwell A: AIDS & the Doctors of Death. Aries Rising Press, Los Angeles, 1988.

Cantwell A: Queer Blood. Aries Rising Press, Los Angeles, 1993.

Gold M: A Conspiracy of Cells. State University of New York Press, Albany, 1986.

Hooper E: The River: A Journey to the Source of HIV and AIDS. Little, Brown and Company, Boston, 1999.

Horowitz L: Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola. Tetrahedron, Inc, Rockport, MA, 1996.

Jaroff Leon: "Vaccine Jitters," TIME, September 13, 1999.

Likoudis P: "Gulf war illness probe to advance with new study," The Wanderer, January 21, 1999.

"Measles, government and trust " (Editorial), Los Angeles Times, June 20, 1996.

Miller NZ: Immunization: Theory vs Reality. New Atlantean Press, Santa Fe, 1996.

Miller NZ: Immunizations: The People Speak! New Atlantean Press, Santa Fe, 1996.

Quinnan GV: Vaccinia Viruses as Vectors for Vaccine Antigens. Elsevier, New York, 1985.

Stolberg SG: "Poor fight baffling surge in asthma," New York Times, October 18, 1999.

 

Yes, this information can easily be biased against the immortal cells, but I can't refute my friend's cancer now can I?

The man is a doctor and has access to the most current research.
If he hadn't had that access, he'd be six feet under right now.

But VACCINES caused his cancer.


so my questioning the immortal cells as leading us down a merry path of more serious diseases is a legitimate question and not one to be snuffed at because you've blindly accepted the dogma of the research community and expect me to as well without any contemplation on the ramifications of starting out with cells that are considered immortal which in my opinion are ABnormal cells.

 

There will be bias in any opinion.
There will be bias in any research.

That bias is there because the funding of the research depends on that bias.

Who funds the research?

That is NOT a personal attack on you flyingeek.

That is a sad fact of any industry!

My friend, by the way, is a PhD as well as a MD.

Those who own the lab are definitely concerned about the funding.

 

Movies are much more entertaining though.

 

"Curing cancer" would be a lot easier if it was one simple disease with one cause instead of a huge variety of illnesses lumped into the cancer pool. One patient with cancer that "traces back" to a vaccine does not a theory prove.

We need to be careful about jumping to conclusions or on autism bandwagons or whatever. There's heaps of easily accessible research available for someone with a critical eye regarding vaccinations, cancer and current trends.

 

I agree, Athena.

The question becomes which information is correct?

There are studies on both sides that will support their arguments, hypothesis, and theory.

 

Felicity.

I never said there werent issues, but you have to have the big picture in mind. All vaccines are immune depressing to some extent and that is the trade-off we are risking.
The medical thought is that we trade a small immune depression for an immunity to one disease. Now let me repeat, we are trading a total immune system depression (our only defense against all known disease - including millions of pathogens) for a temporary immunity against one disease, usually an innocuous childhood disease.

The trade-off is not worth the risk. We are risking getting many more diseases than we are "preventing" from getting.

NOT getting the vast amority of vaccines poses an even bigger risk, not only on you but on the entire population. For one, there is consistent research trying to improve the way we preserve them

My point: scare tactics that scare people away from real needed healthcare is not the way to go.
You post a bunch of posts of stuff against vaccines but forget that the positive stories out weigh by far the negaive sides and also very onesided theories that has never been backed up.

Some of the stuff you post are real, some are seriously flawed and outright wrong and conspiracy-ish, covert vaccine experiments for one. I have seen this on the web but the sources are not credible.
Given how the system is set up - nothing to do with companies, Im talking FDA etc - I simply dont see how any clinical trial can be set up covertly - as conset etc is a huge issue - back in the day, I would not be surprised, today? There is more to this story, it doesnt add up at all. When you see these stories, you also see words like "genocide by vaccine" etc, I would be very careful. I have researched this before and its very hard to follow.

Cancer usually takes about 20 years to develop... but given that vaccines are somewhat immunosuppressive - it is possible to somehow develop another disease... but again, the risks of not taking a vaccine far outweighs the riskst with the vaccines

You have managed to pull together a lot of stuff you have not cross referenced and is not backed up some are pure theories.
That was my point from the beginning - dont take one sourse as the truth - ever - in anything.


Weighing NOT getting a vaccine and the risks from vaccines, I will never take the risk NOT taking a vaccine as those risks far outweigh the risks from vaccines.
Noting in medicine is 100% safe.... heck, you can go in for a simple surgery and die of anastehia.

You have to look at the big picture - what will NOT taking a vaccine lead to?


On the flipside, always go into the doc educated and ask questions, its your right. If you are not comfortable, get another doctor - he should know and be able to give you the information, if not - leave.
Never let anyone make these decissions for you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
Educate myself?

I was stating a theory in the field of cancer research that happens to think after all these 40 years of cancer research that has yet to provide a definitive cure for cancer other than chemotherapy it may be due to the immortal cells leading the researchers down a dead end path.

------------------------------------
This really shows how little you know about the subject.
And Im not trying to be mean here.

As I said before, you can divide breast cancer into about a minimum of 14 different cancers. There are over 200 different cancers with different causes and different biology - its not that easy - there will never be a one size answer for cancer.We have done great advances is Breast cancer, Prostate cancer etc Child leukemia, was a death sentence in the 70s, today we cure the vast majority - so , yes, there are great strides made.

Also, Chemotherapy is these days used as backbones and using our own biochemical pathways are now where the research is going - where you do personalized medicine.


We know a lot of mutations etc that are common in certain cancers, we look for that and treat the patient with compounds specific for that - such as colorectal cancer or lung cancer or breast cancer, they initially look for these mutations to get a grasp of what type of cancer it is and what drugs would, or would not work.

Look up Avastin, Tarceva, Herceptin, Cetuximab, IGF1R inhibitors, PARP inhibitors. etc. interresting reads.

Immortal cell line research is not leading researchers down a dead path, that agin shows how little you know.

These cell lines are very well defined and everybody are well aware of their limitations. Noone that only uses these for research can be published, you have to back it up using experiments that are in context of "X" diesase.

Its only used for initial testing, for screening of coumpunds. For the rest of the research, the research that really counts are done in animals and in human clinical trials...

 

I wanted to put this separately so it doesnt get lost:

Im not trying to get all preachy and arrogant (I appologize if it comes across like that), but it seems it doesnt hurt to repeat.

Before you make up your mind
Always be critical, but dont let anyone convince you of anything in medicine. What is the right decission for me is might not be the right one for you.

When you read medical stuff on line, be aware of where it comes from - private contribution? Patient advocacy group? Government? and so on and always think of how that can bias what you read. Not everything is backed up a lot of medical missinformation and pure therories and even conspiracy theopries are out there.

Read more than one article on line and make sure you get a good mix from different sourses and alwasy look for references.

If you have access, unbiased information can be found at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

This is pure research articles that are peer reviewed and not biased. Of course there is some shadiness here too.. but it is rare. and much more unbiased than anything you fond on line on a random search.

another site if you are interrested in clinical trials that are up and running go to:
clinicaltrials.gov
ANY clinical trial opening in the country must be registered here.

Citeline and trialtrove are other sources but they cost money.

This is a passion of mine, getting access of medical information to underserved socioeconomically "disadvatage" groups.
It drives me nuts every day how much information that does not get where it needs to go. Such as access to clinical trials or free drug programs.

This is something I have a desire to work on but I would have to start a company as nothing really exists and then I would have to get donations to run it.

 

Great post FG! Folks can also check through their college or university to access research papers for free in the library or even online. Also the Cochrane database/library has great summaries of a huge variety of research & the best part is - it's free on iTunes (among other larger sources )!

 

Sorry I did n't get a chance to read each and every post. But the farce that MMR causes Autism has been refuted. The british scientist who published this BS finding many years ago in major UK scientific paper has gotten a major slap on his face recently. The editors of the journals have said "the scientist was dishonest and irresponsible in conducting his research, his data lacks significant scientific backing and has major selection bias" So, tell Jenny McCartney to get off Larry King live and just pose for playboy.

Vaccine for most part are very effective, safe and affordable. Sure they have side effects such as fever, local tenderness and irritability but are safe for most part. So get your kids vaccinated. No, I do not get a kick back from Pfizer or Abbott, at least not anymore. LoL.

 

Thank you GZ, I totally forgot that part.
Very important. And thank you Athena for that info, also somehting I totally forgot about local university libraries and so on.. and free.

The risks of not vaccinate your kid way surpasses any risks of vaccines themselves.

 

Herd Immunity!

Geeky-excellent point. The whole post is on the dot, very well said, very well. Sounds like a very unbiased scientist giving advise. Good times

 

Excellent point from both FG and GZ. As a mother, I can tell you both my children have received every vaccination and booster as scheduled. And yes I did my research beforehand, and also determined that the benefits far, far outweighed the potential risks. There is risk with any vaccine or medication, a certain percentage of people are going to have a bad reaction, sometimes you just have to accept that small risk when it's in the best interest of your child. Anyone who doesn't do their own research, or is incapable of understanding what they do find, should defer to a medical professional that they trust. To risk your child's health and well-being based upon information that isn't accurate or isn't applicable, is negligent.

Also, the assertion that all opinions and all research are biased is complete crap. I worked in the medical field and observed a number of clinical trials, and I can tell you unequivocally that everyone doing research does not subject that research to personal or funding bias. That suggestion is offensive to the people who choose to dedicate their lives to research. Just because some people are incapable of being unbiased themselves, doesn't mean everyone has that deficit.

 

I'll read all of the posts later, LOL, but I got the basic gist of what is being said.

My daughter is also receiving all of her vaccinations that she's been scheduled to get. I did not do any research, but I didn't feel I had to. I got all of my vaccinations, and even a booster of my MMR after I gave birth and never had issues with any of the vaccines I received.

At her last doctor's appt, I talked to her pediatrician about the H1N1 vaccine. I had already made up my mind, after much deliberation, that I wasn't going to have her get that one or the regular flu vaccine.

I talked to her doctor and he said, truthfully, if you really wanted to give her a flu vaccine, you should be choosing the regular flu vaccine over the H1N1. I didn't get her either one, but, that was my decision. She's fine. As was I.

 

Thank you - I do take offence to that.
I , like the vast majority of people in the research field - went there with a passion and only want what is right and true. I sacrificed everything for a very long time to pursue this passion of mine.

I always say "the answer is what the answer is" when my investigators ask me of an opinion about a compound of our and a competitor, I gove the data that is out there, not filtered or edited.. it is what it is.. and may the best drug "win".

Granted, there are some rotten eggs that are all about themselves, but that is far from the norm.

 

I would expect you to take offense to an obviously offensive statement that has no basis in fact FG. Personally I appreciate you and everyone else doing research, I know it often involves a lot of work, long hours, and sometimes all that goes into finding out what doesn't work, rather than what does. So questioning the integrity of those folks is simply not appropriate IMO, I'm just gonna go with Thank You.

And thanks to Bookie for mentioning the flu and H1N1 vaccines, I completely forgot about those. I don't get flu shots for the kids, but they are in their teens, healthy, and not exposed to as many people on a daily basis as a lot of children, so I don't think they are warranted. I have too many allergy issues and adrenal insufficiency, so vaccines of any type are not advisable for me. Fortunately we all stay pretty healthy.

I will say that as a child I received none of the vaccinations, my mother didn't believe in them. So naturally I had chicken pox, measles, mumps, and whooping cough. My children have had none of the above thanks to receiving the vaccinations.

 

It kills me, especially with the crappy pay and work hours we have.
After 10 years of college, I got, 22K/year as a salary - and that was NCI regulated pay. To add to that, as a post doc, you are still considered "in training" aftre 10 years of college - so your work week is between 80-100 h per week.
Now do the math - 80-100h weeks and 22K per year?
There are no 9-5 days 5 days per week in science.
Its very comeptitive, lack of funding, makes it becoming an indenture of sorts where you have to work those hours to get renewed post-dpc contract each year... or you get your ass shipped out.

After 5 years, I was up in 45K/per year...

It kida sucks after sinking 10 years of student loans...
Yes, it was my choice and I dont regret it, but something to consider, it is not a glamorous trade at all.

I do take all my flu shots religiously but as I have Asthma, I would be stupid not to.