How many Calls to a woman?

That is so stupid !

 

This is the root of the problem for many men that seem to be in your situation. "Respect for women" can cause men to ,in a sense, to fear women, or at least put them on a pedestal; Neither will attract a lot of women and it's this "respect for women" that is the root of the your typical nice guy's problem.

You shouldn't respect, or disrespect a woman that you don't know. You should wait to get to know her to find out whether she deserves your respect, or disrespect.

I certainly don't hear many people urging women to have " respect for men".

 

What an interesting thread. Thanks for bringing it back up from the trenches. :smt023

I will agree with you, whether you're interested in someone as a friend or a potential lover, that person should earn your respect through their actions.

However, I think it's more likely that he means, he treats women in a respectful manner, which is a good thing.

I read through this thread, and I have to say, it's a shame that TMass isn't posting anymore. He seems like a nice guy to know.

 

Brother I couldn't agree with you more! I think that this is part of the reason why people say that chilvary is dead because it makes it hard for the man to determine the line between respect and practicality. As a result, some men throw chilvary out of the window because they feel that being nice and respectful to a woman will hinder his chances of getting with her. Men and women don't communicate like we are suppose to. Communication will bring balance and understanding back to this dilemma; especially amongst young people. It will also help women to learn how to respect a man for being nice to her and not look at it as a sign of weakness. All women don't look at niceness as a sign of weakness though.

 

Acctually, its not only women that look at kindness as a weakness.. Its equally the same the other way around.

It appears to me that there a lot of these types of complaints about women on this board, but what I find curious, is that you dont see the same complaints comming from the women.

I think a lot of men, somehow forget the fact that the vast majority of problems you are complaining about in regards to women is reversible.
We complain about the exact s a m e stuff as men..
Most issues brought up here are human issues, not female issues or male issues.. such as this one.

(Disclaimer: Clearly there are stuff that are gender specific)


Men take kindness in women as a sign weakness ALL the time.
Trust me on that one.

 

Being polite is a good thing, but many men are taught as boys to hold women in general to a higher esteem. They're taught to look at every woman like they mother or sisters, which is impractical and naive.

I was one of them.

 

How is it impractical? I dont get that?

I think it makes complete sense to strive to treat women like you would want your sister/mother/daughter to be treated.... Now, it doesnt always work out like that, but you can strive for it.

The same should go for women: to treat men as youwould treat your dad/brother/son.

I dont get why the godlen rule is so hard. I live it every day - do I fail? Hell yes, we are human, but its a good rule to try to adhere to.

btw - kudos to Dmacho for bringing up a very good thread!

 

well i've been taught to respect people regardless of what sex they are, and have never looked at a man being nice to me as a sign of weakness. i can't for the life of me think of what could possibly be wrong with it.

 

That's a good point. I cannot count the number of times I have heard someone say 'would you treat your mother like that' to a man, but I have never heard the reverse, not one time. I personally don't use either, I prefer 'is that how you'd like someone to treat you?' If not then you need to straighten up. I approach everyone with respect, and I continue to respect them until they give me a reason not to.

 

"Weakness" isn't necessarily a turn off of men; it is for women. Men are attracted to submissiveness. Being weak is being submissive in a sense, so it usually isn't an obstacle for women when trying to meet men. Women aren't attracted to submissiveness. They're attracted dominance which comes in many forms : confidence, money, height, muscles are all forms of dominance.

Women who keep going back to men who treat them like trash, do so because it turns them on. If a man continually treats a woman like crap, he's in a dominant position in relation to her.

 

Yes, but then you are talking about men that dont use women (just regular good men).... women that dont use men (just regular good women)would not look at kindness as a weakness.


If you talk about men and women that do tend to take advantage - that is another group of people. In this group:

Men often take advantage of something they look at as weakness when it comes to women. As in taking kindness for weakness.
I often run into that... when you meet someone in the beginning and they dont know you - often do I see men taking my kindness and patience as weakness and I see how they try to use it (like getting into my panst or just abusing my kindness). It happens all the time.

Disclaimer: I dont let men use me, I see it comming, but let them prove me right first and then, they are out. I dont date doushes like that. I want a kind man.

Perhaps women and men abuse this differently?
Women trying to get the men to run circles, paying dinners, buying gifts and so on. And men, sex and trying to get stuff on the side...
We are driven differently.

But we equally tend to take kindness for weakness.

I hate it.
If you are kind, I will respect that - and I cant take advantage of anyone, my concious is not big enough.

 

Nope he's out the door. There are women who tolerate that, but they tend to be the one's with really low self-esteem. Women don't get treated like shit because they're drawn to dominance and it turns them on, they get treated like shit because they allow it.

There is a difference between weakness, submissiveness, and being shy and respectful. If a woman isn't smart enough to tell the difference, then that's her loss.

I will agree with you that people are drawn to confident people, not necessarily because they view that as dominant, but more because it's a quality the majority of people don't appear to display very often. But while men may be attracted to confidence in a woman, in my experience they do choose the submissive women for relationships, or at least appear to prefer that type. I don't know if they want the control, or if they like having someone that clingy, needy and dependent. Maybe all of the afore mentioned are appealing to other people, but not to me.

 

I agree with this observation Espy. My ex told me that my confidence and independence was a huge turn on for him initially but he grew to hate it. Yes he used the word "hate".

 

This is so true. But it doesn't just refer to women. There are lots of men out there who have incredibly low self-esteem who allow women to walk all over them and dominate their lives.

People who allow themselves to be treated like crap are in a vicious cycle that they've probably been exposed to for most of their lives and they don't feel they deserve to be treated any better and they probably feel "lucky" that the other person wants to be with them, so they allow themselves to be doormats.

They suffer from very low self-esteem, self-confidence, self-reliance, everything related to self.

 

You would throw the man out because you're not attracted to that type of dominance. It comes in different forms. Some women are indifferent to dominance, just as some men could care less if a woman is submissive. It's rare for a woman to be attracted to submissiveness; just as it's rare for man to be attracted to dominance.

We're sort getting off track. I just brought up all the dominance/submissive talk to point out that while people in general mistake kindness for weakness, that perceived weakness is more of a turn off for women than men. Which is why you hear men :smt089 about it a lot more.