help..wonderful white women/parents

[The Dark King]

I understood Fantastic to be a black male. I'm a white female. The slur was not being used against my ethnicity. It was being used against my racial group. And I don't find much difference between ethnic slurs and racial slurs. White Americans are racist toward Hispanics. That's ethnic racism but we still call it racism.

And back on ignore you go you crazy wacked out HILL BILLY. Yippe kiyah mothafuka

 

[Mikey]

I have a question about the posts on this thread around Page 23 - 25. If I were to call a white guy "cracker" based on how he appears and presents himself, do you think many people around me would perceive that as being a racial slur although most of the people on this site have the opinion that it isn't a racial/ethnic slur?

Much of that research is nearly 20 years old, or older. Anything more recent which validates this?

I found some more things for you from doing some reading. The information I'm about to post is pretty sensitive, please don't attack the messenger here. The bolded portions reflect my opinions on the matter of the racial identity of bi-racial children.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v11/f13/rockquemore.html

"You have more of a choice now as to how you identify yourself," said Lambe, whose parents are white and Asian. "Because of that, those of us who are mixed or biracial want to create our own community, instead of being forced into a category."

The choice to which Lambe refers, and the factors that influence it, are explored by Rockquemore and University of Alabama-Huntsville Assistant Professor of Sociology David Brunsma in Beyond Black. Their project focused on offspring of black-white unions, she explains, "because blacks and whites continue to be the two groups with the greatest social distance, the most spatial separation and the strongest taboos against interracial marriage."

Rockquemore and Brunsma's research used survey data and in-depth interviews with biracial undergraduates attending Detroit-area colleges. Those conversations give voice to the complexities of biracial identity, and how it can be influenced by physical appearance, friends and acquaintances, surroundings, situation and other factors.

Chris, for example, described herself as "biracial, but I experience the world as a black woman," largely because of her appearance.

Kathy, more light-skinned and with features most likely to identify her as white, talked of being stigmatized by many black students who interpret her biracial self-identification as trying to establish herself as "better than" or "beyond" black.

"It is one thing for someone to consider himself or herself as biracial, or black, or white," said Rockquemore. "How that identity is validated - if it is - by family, friends, acquaintances or in certain situations, is another matter."

Some respondents, however, said being biracial meant they would alter their behaviors or mannerisms to suit the situation. One student Rockquemore interviewed in a cafeteria spoke to her using black vernacular and body language, but when joined by white friends, she recalled, "he stiffened his back and used more standard English."

Yet there was nothing affected or false about the young man's actions, Rockquemore adds. "It felt completely natural to him. For biracial people like him, their self-understanding is based on this fluidity of identity. They see it as a gift, a way to move more comfortably through the world."

Based on the surveys and interviews, Rockquemore and Brunsma found four major variations on biracial identity. The "border" identity, which fit Kathy, encompasses both socially accepted racial categorizations of black and white yet includes an additional element from its combination. The "protean," as demonstrated by the young man in the cafeteria, involves multiple identities and personas that can be called up in appropriate contexts.
A small number of respondents asserted a "singular" identity as either black or white, rather than biracial. But some chose what the researchers termed a "transcendent" identity, consciously denying having any racial identity at all.

"This option proved to be more complex than we thought," said Rockquemore. "We assumed beforehand that these students were white in appearance, with no real experience of racial stratification, and perhaps filled with youthful idealism. But those whom we interviewed were not exclusively white in appearance, and some had known discrimination. They intellectualized those situations as part of broad societal problem, one in which they were deeply imbedded."

I hope the second to last paragraph clears up some misunderstandings that I've noticed from people while I've read this thread. There are 4 different variations on bi-racial identity, so that's why I would say that everyone is correct based on what they've said here.

 

[Mikey]

It's just something I've loved all my life, and I passed that love on to my son, apparently. He just graduated with his BA in History.

Does he plan on being a history teacher? I wonder what the job prospects are like for him?

Hillbilly can not possibly be a racist word _by definition_.
A racist word refers to all people of a specific race and as hillbilly does not refer to all white people, it simply doesn't not fit the description of a racist word by definition. It may be derogatory, but not racist.

I would say that it largely depends on who you insult and how that person takes the insult. The definition of the word varies based on who it is directed to and the way it was intended to be used.

 

[TreePixie]

Does he plan on being a history teacher? I wonder what the job prospects are like for him?

Yes. He did a 5 year program which not only earned him the BA in History, but also gave him enough education credits to qualify for teacher certification. Eventually he'd like to get his master's and teach at a community college level, where he feels he can really make a difference to students, but for now he's looking at teaching high school

 

[Mikey]

Yes. He did a 5 year program which not only earned him the BA in History, but also gave him enough education credits to qualify for teacher certification. Eventually he'd like to get his master's and teach at a community college level, where he feels he can really make a difference to students, but for now he's looking at teaching high school

Oh, ok. That makes sense to me. Hopefully he'll land the job at a high school. Then he could move on to a higher level. In someways, I think History is something that is fascinating, although it's not an educational pursuit for me. Jobs with computers and IT are best for me.

 

[swirlman07]

I have a question about the posts on this thread around Page 23 - 25. If I were to call a white guy "cracker" based on how he appears and presents himself, do you think many people around me would perceive that as being a racial slur although most of the people on this site have the opinion that it isn't a racial/ethnic slur?



I found some more things for you from doing some reading. The information I'm about to post is pretty sensitive, please don't attack the messenger here. The bolded portions reflect my opinions on the matter of the racial identity of bi-racial children.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v11/f13/rockquemore.html



I hope the second to last paragraph clears up some misunderstandings that I've noticed from people while I've read this thread. There are 4 different variations on bi-racial identity, so that's why I would say that everyone is correct based on what they've said here.

I don't think that it clears up anything. In my opinion, the assertions or conclusions of ONE study aren't dispositive of the issues in this matter. In the matter of this particular story I would be interested in the detail of the study, how he chose his subjects, where they lived geographically, information about their parents, the questions posed, who asked the questions, etc. All of these factors could influence the outcome and the conclusion of the study.

As an example of something I find troubling about the research project, a conclusion appears to be drawn from the fact that one the respondents spoke to the interviewer in a different vernacular than with a group of white friends. However, as evidenced by the posts of BM on this forum many black people in general use certain speech, depending on the audience. The study doesn't seem to recognize this reality. What other gaps between the study and conclusion exist?

You have look at any study with scrutiny, regardless of where it's done. People often assume that there's validity in any study that's conducted in a University environment. This simply isn't true and you only need to do a simple internet search to find that there're often problems with all categories of studies, from social studies to medical studies, at Ivy League Universities or Government funded projects.

 

[Ymra]

Wonder what you would think if things happend in reverse and some white folk done called you a racist slur and tried to claim it wasn't racist cause they were ignorant on the damn word how exactly you would react. I feel pretty confident it wouldn't be positive.

Folk me makin' up shit when you think "Hillbilly" is a racial slur.

I really pay you no attention because you are a typical slow wit southern yokel.

 

[Ymra]

It's just something I've loved all my life, and I passed that love on to my son, apparently. He just graduated with his BA in History.

I am somewhat of a history buff as well, my degree is in African-American history and I minored in Asian studies.

 

[The Dark King]

Folk me makin' up shit when you think "Hillbilly" is a racial slur.

I really pay you no attention because you are a typical slow wit southern yokel.

Amen fam

 

[Mikey]

I don't think that it clears up anything. In my opinion, the assertions or conclusions of ONE study aren't dispositive of the issues in this matter. In the matter of this particular story I would be interested in the detail of the study, how he chose his subjects, where they lived geographically, information about their parents, the questions posed, who asked the questions, etc. All of these factors could influence the outcome and the conclusion of the study.

As an example of something I find troubling about the research project, a conclusion appears to be drawn from the fact that one the respondents spoke to the interviewer in a different vernacular than with a group of white friends. However, as evidenced by the posts of BM on this forum many black people in general use certain speech, depending on the audience. The study doesn't seem to recognize this reality. What other gaps between the study and conclusion exist?

You have look at any study with scrutiny, regardless of where it's done. People often assume that there's validity in any study that's conducted in a University environment. This simply isn't true and you only need to do a simple internet search to find that there're often problems with all categories of studies, from social studies to medical studies, at Ivy League Universities or Government funded projects.

Okay, that's your view and I respect your opinion. I decided to post that particular one up because I believed that it illustrates that there's something essential that we're missing out of this debate about what it means to be bi-racial.

I'm not taking sides with anyone here, I just seem to agree with the sociology professor's perspective about bi-racial identity. In addition to that Swirlman, there's a 220 page book that she created titled "Beyond Black: Bi-Racial Identity in America". Perhaps if we ordered the book, we could gain a lot more information which explains her reasoning of why she thinks this way about this issue. The latest edition of book is $80 though, definitely out of my price range.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Black-...0546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311009198&sr=8-1

 

[Tamstrong]

[YOUTUBE]BZuWdfMoVBA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[swirlman07]

Okay, that's your view and I respect your opinion. I decided to post that particular one up because I believed that it illustrates that there's something essential that we're missing out of this debate about what it means to be bi-racial.

I'm not taking sides with anyone here, I just seem to agree with the sociology professor's perspective about bi-racial identity. In addition to that Swirlman, there's a 220 page book that she created titled "Beyond Black: Bi-Racial Identity in America". Perhaps if we ordered the book, we could gain a lot more information which explains her reasoning of why she thinks this way about this issue. The latest edition of book is $80 though, definitely out of my price range.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Black-...0546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311009198&sr=8-1

Of course it's my opinion, just as the study, to me, represents her opinion, as opposed to the "factual" findings of her study. I understand that you would post it BECAUSE you hold a similar opinion.

Based on what I recognize as one readily identifiable misplaced conclusion, I have no interest in her book. Anyone can publish a book if they have the money. In this case, having a book selling for such an exorbitant price suggests to me that it could have been self funded, though I'm not the expert on the subject.

Separate from opinion, it's very factual that many studies plainly are filled with errors or draw false conclusions for many reasons. If you do that research I'm sure that you will find this to be true as well.

 

[Bliss]

I understood Fantastic to be a black male. I'm a white female. The slur was not being used against my ethnicity. It was being used against my racial group. And I don't find much difference between ethnic slurs and racial slurs. White Americans are racist toward Hispanics. That's ethnic racism but we still call it racism.

Bolded part is a very true point. It all boils down to intent.

 

[ktplay]

And back on ignore you go you crazy wacked out HILL BILLY. Yippe kiyah mothafuka

me too.....

 

[Mikey]

Of course it's my opinion, just as the study, to me, represents her opinion, as opposed to the "factual" findings of her study. I understand that you would post it BECAUSE you hold a similar opinion.

Based on what I recognize as one readily identifiable misplaced conclusion, I have no interest in her book. Anyone can publish a book if they have the money. In this case, having a paperback selling for such an exorbitant price suggests to me that it's self funded, though I'm not the expert on the subject.

Separate from opinion, it's very factual that many studies plainly are filled with errors or draw false conclusions for many reasons. If you do that research I'm sure that you will find this to be true as well.

My mistake, I mis-read the page. The Hardcover format of the book was $80, the paperback format of the book was $29.95.

I am aware that studies and documentations are prone to errors, anything is, but I don't think I would discredit the entire thing just because there's an error that's present. Errors have happened to all of us at least once in our lives.

 

[TreePixie]

I don't think that it clears up anything. In my opinion, the assertions or conclusions of ONE study aren't dispositive of the issues in this matter. In the matter of this particular story I would be interested in the detail of the study, how he chose his subjects, where they lived geographically, information about their parents, the questions posed, who asked the questions, etc. All of these factors could influence the outcome and the conclusion of the study.

As an example of something I find troubling about the research project, a conclusion appears to be drawn from the fact that one the respondents spoke to the interviewer in a different vernacular than with a group of white friends. However, as evidenced by the posts of BM on this forum many black people in general use certain speech, depending on the audience. The study doesn't seem to recognize this reality. What other gaps between the study and conclusion exist?

You have look at any study with scrutiny, regardless of where it's done. People often assume that there's validity in any study that's conducted in a University environment. This simply isn't true and you only need to do a simple internet search to find that there're often problems with all categories of studies, from social studies to medical studies, at Ivy League Universities or Government funded projects.

I'd have repped you but I have to spread it around first.

Too many people are willing to accept badly done "research" as a statistical analysis rather than a collection of anecdotal data.

 

[TreePixie]

I am somewhat of a history buff as well, my degree is in African-American history and I minored in Asian studies.

:-D History has always fascinated me. While I've never done African-American history, I went to high school in the experimental 1970s and had the chance to take an African History course (taught by a little old white man in a bow tie, but very enthusiastic), and it opened my eyes to the world beyond European history.

 

[Bliss]

blah blah blah bitch. explain it to me. i really wish you would join the present. ALL your SHIT seems to originate in the past.

What? did you really just tell her that, while her and Pixie were debating history?

Not to mention that it's this country's racial history that is the central theme to this topic.

So, Regina can from this point on call you A BITCH back, right, since you called her out of pocket like that? Except from what I've read, she won't. (even though I would) You may not like her POV, but she never calls anyone any insulting names (heck she doesn't even swear), and even if she doesn't agree with/or like anther's POV, she (surprisingly) remains linguistically pure/respectful in her response style.

I have to give it to her that no matter how many of you come at her, her passion remains intact and she doesn't resort to weak-minded faux "e-tough" responses such as this crap below...

...all i want to do is slap the shit out of her.

Maybe that "seek truth" hand is better spent facing you.

 

[Tamstrong]

I don't think that it clears up anything. In my opinion, the assertions or conclusions of ONE study aren't dispositive of the issues in this matter. In the matter of this particular story I would be interested in the detail of the study, how he chose his subjects, where they lived geographically, information about their parents, the questions posed, who asked the questions, etc. All of these factors could influence the outcome and the conclusion of the study.

As an example of something I find troubling about the research project, a conclusion appears to be drawn from the fact that one the respondents spoke to the interviewer in a different vernacular than with a group of white friends. However, as evidenced by the posts of BM on this forum many black people in general use certain speech, depending on the audience. The study doesn't seem to recognize this reality. What other gaps between the study and conclusion exist?

You have look at any study with scrutiny, regardless of where it's done. People often assume that there's validity in any study that's conducted in a University environment. This simply isn't true and you only need to do a simple internet search to find that there're often problems with all categories of studies, from social studies to medical studies, at Ivy League Universities or Government funded projects.

Of course it's my opinion, just as the study, to me, represents her opinion, as opposed to the "factual" findings of her study. I understand that you would post it BECAUSE you hold a similar opinion.

Based on what I recognize as one readily identifiable misplaced conclusion, I have no interest in her book. Anyone can publish a book if they have the money. In this case, having a book selling for such an exorbitant price suggests to me that it could have been self funded, though I'm not the expert on the subject.

Separate from opinion, it's very factual that many studies plainly are filled with errors or draw false conclusions for many reasons. If you do that research I'm sure that you will find this to be true as well.

Great, level-headed posts as usual. :smt023

 

[Mikey]

I'd have repped you but I have to spread it around first.

Too many people are willing to accept badly done "research" as a statistical analysis rather than a collection of anecdotal data.

Sigh.... okay, I guess you, Swirlman and the others are correct here.

I say this because I remember reading about studies of black men (some of which came from this website) that were written in a means of being conducted in a negative context. Swirlman also made a post a few weeks ago saying something like "If everyone believed in the statistics about the African American community, many white women wouldn't have preferred to date black men." So I guess there is truth to your point of view and the other people here who share the same perspective you do about some statistical manipulation that could occur in studies like these.

I thank everyone for the knowledge and information they've presented in this thread that I've just learned.