Hamas has only themselves to blame

Maybe, just maybe, the Europeans recognize some of Israel's abuse of powers as being Nazi-like. You would think the people of Israel, after what was done to Jews during WW2, would see the Palestinians' point.

 

I think you're wrong about the American media's views about the conflict. I've been watching TV and cable news and reading the papers and I haven't seen any bias towards Israel at all. Unless you're talking about Fox News, I don't see the bias.

I never said Israel is perfect. But they don't use their own kids to go blow up Palestinians.

Yes, America takes Israel's side. Do I agree with it? No. I don't think we should support or oppose any nation, be it Israel or Iran. We should stay neutral

Well, America was settled by wiping away the native peoples, the same as Canada, Australia, Brazil, etc.. Hell, Tibet is being Sinofied (made Chinese) as we speak. Will you criticize those nations as well?

Maybe they would. If they don't want that to happen, then they should fight an WIN. The Arabs lost to Israel three times. Regardless of how it happened, they lost. They have to deal with it. Israel's not going anywhere. Hamas cannot win. They're only making it harder on the people they claim to care about with their rocket attacks against Israeli citizens. They're paying the price for it

 

Hmm. I kinda jumped out of this thread, but I'm back to just make a short note.

So, Hamas cannot win. But that doesn't make it right for Israel to start this war. Because it is a war now, and Gaza is catastrophe area. But Israel isn't letting in any help for the civilians.. Effectivly killing children and elderly who have no protection for the cold (no electricity, no gas, no windows that are whole). No medication left, very little pain killers like morphin, lots of people who has to be amputated.
And Im ready to bet that most of those people aren't Hamas.

Hamas has home made bombs and rockets. Israel has an armie. There are better ways of retalliating those bombs then turning Gaza into a bloodbath.

"Well, America was settled by wiping away the native peoples, the same as Canada, Australia, Brazil, etc.. Hell, Tibet is being Sinofied (made Chinese) as we speak. Will you criticize those nations as well?"

Yes. Off course? It's not like people dislike US foreign policy without a reason. Seriously, can't you see that?

 

Hey, Scylla I'm in no way condoning the disproportionate force that Israel is using in Gaza. I just feel that if we ever going to get any resolution in the Middle East people need to have realistic goals. Now Hamas's short term goals are to clear Israel's forces from the occupied territories. I think this is realistic and reasonable. But now, if they ever do manage to achieve this goal, the conflict will still not stop there, because according to their charter they want to establish an Islamic state where Israel is. Like I said earlier this will never happen. With goals like this is the conflict ever going to end? Israel are no saints I know. They shouldn’t really be there in my opinion. But the fact is they are there. We have to move forward from this point. Even in Southern Africa, when the Afrikaners introduced apartheid in South Africa, Black people formed a militant group to rid the apartheid regime. They (umkhonto wesizwe) resorted to planting bombs and spreading a fair bit of terror, somewhat similar to Hamas. Their cause, though different, was realistic. The prospect of riding apartheid was always there. There prospect of an Islamic state of Palestine is impossible.8)

 

Well I would be pissed if someone came into my house and said they were taking over. And I can go live in the corner. And that's what this whole thing is about.There are only a few ways this long standing war gets resolved. They destroy one another or somebody decides to leave. The idea that we could make a peace treaty when we back one party over the other is laughable.

 

Personally I got no sympathy for either the Palestinians or the Israelis. Both sides can only blame themself. This conflict is WAY older than WW2, like the common belief is. It's more or less the same conflict that made the crusaders travel to "free" Jerusalem in the middle ages. And the conflict was old already then. The re-establishing of Israel after WW2 just meant that the western world got a more interested in a conflict that was already there, and that US would start pumping money into one of the sides to make the "quarrel" uneven.

Back to now days:
Hamas has bombed Israel daily (or so) for a looong time. Interestingly the Israeli government haven't wanted to do anything about it. Until right before they have an election coming up.

This resent attack on Hamas only has to do with winning that election. The current government want to proove to the voters that they are doing something.

Anyway: any internal conflicts in the Middle East is good news to the rest of the world. The sad truth is that there are a lot of fundamentalists there, who pretty much hate everyone else, especially the western world. Don't get me wrong,I too feel sorry for civilians and I've never supported the US attack on Iraq (attacking innocent people, killing civilians, and making living conditions worse to ordinary people will never get rid or fundamentalism, if anything it will create even more fundamentalists). But as long as they have conflicts in their own back yard to worry about, those fundamentalists are less likely to come here with their BS. If the Israel/Palestine conflict got a solution both sides where happy with tomorrow, we would have a huge boost in terrorist attacks in the rest of the world (Especially Europe and US). So lets hope they continue killing each other- it only means we're safer.

 

No, I agree with you.. Hamas is not helping anyone really.. But still. Weren't they started by the israelis? To balance out PLO? That might be just a rumour though.

I can't see anyway of getting out of this conflict, as ronja says: this conflict is much much older then most people think.
But they are bombing hospitals, one thats run by the swedish church just got wiped out. Not sure about casualities, i think they had the chance to evakuate. They tried to take out a convoy of norweigan surgeons as well. They are targetting red cross vehicles. They are really trying to destroy every last bit of infrastructure and support for the civilians, my guess to make hamas back off to save civ life.
And in the mean time the death count is now 800 palestinians and 15 israelis.
That the conflict is unsolvable, or the fact that hamas are acting like idiots, doesnt make more right that people dies.