Ghetto Black Culture--What is your opinion.

Stomp the Yard

Hey Bryant,

I notice you are up just like me--late night. I just seen Stomp The Yard! If was Off The Chain! Right now I am watching Ricky Smiley on BET. Thank you for welcoming me. I am glad to be here too.

Peace, Love, and Blessings

---Jacklyn

 

Re: Stomp the Yard

Oh yeah, i'm a real insomniac sometimes...lol i only sleep when i'm well, sleepy. I'll be sure to check out Stomp the Yard. :wink: If you haven't seen it already, the new James Bond movie was the best i'd ever seen. It was awesome.

 

:smt102 The jury is still out on that.

:idea: Now some would say BOTH of those forms of entertainment are products of "GHETTO BLACK CULTURE" :!: :?

 

Re: A response to being considered "White acting".

That's why your sociology degree is probably useless no disrespect. The people who built the program are the same people who are quick to look down at the black man, but ignor their problem. The same people you're bashing is the same people you got your knowledge from concering social issues? You tell me, does that make sense? So in a way aren't you being condition to think like a white man when it comes to issues in the black community? Which explains your very first post.

 

Jeverage,


Thanks for starting this topic. You opened it with a very honest and insightful Post that I agree with 100%. In my opinion, the hip-hop/rap culture is a perfect example of how the Stockholm Syndrome affects large social groups and becomes internalized and disseminated by its members: the oppressed learn how to oppress themselves so that the real oppressors have little to do but make sure we do not climb to far out of the steady river of filth and degradation that we pay millions every year to swim in. It's like an abused woman who finally believes that she deserves nothing more than to be beaten and kicked by a man and so keeps attracting and being attracted to those types of men.

You mentioned middle class Blacks as having failed to help other Blacks through social programs and community development but I disagree with you on that point. When a Black person is viewed as being middle class, most lower class Blacks decide that we are now a part of White culture and not to be trusted. You can only help people that want to be helped and many of the people you are referring to feel safe inside their small, oppressive paradigms so that when anyone challenges their belief systems or lifestyles, they are aggressively rejected --- especially if the challenger is another Black person. I know from very painful experience after years of working in education and workforce development. Again, its the crab-bucket affect on a national scale. People who have already internalized the messages of self-hatred and oppression fight really hard to maintain those beliefs because they feel safe and help them establish their place in society, even if that place is one of weakness and degradation. You can't force anyone to change their self-image if they are not ready to evolve and I think it would be a grave mistake for middle class Blacks to play the role of the martyr. I've seen what happens when we do and its tragic. Why invest in a job training program just to see your graduates get a job at the local department store and then lose it because they miss so much work, are rude to customers, stole money from the cash register, or wouldn't get off their cell phone even while standing behind the counter? Why put money into renovating a block of dilapidated property into comfortable, low-income housing when the surrounding community lacks the infrastructure or the financial and cultural support to maintain it? Personally I think its really idealistic to believe that everyone can move out of their class and shift higher: it takes hard work, dedication, self-exploration, honesty, sacrifice, education, and -- perhaps most importantly -- learning how to behave in ways that many lower class Blacks consider "Acting White". Until Black culture becomes identified with things like education and responsibility instead of Rocawear and fatherless children, it won't matter how much money or how many social programs the Black middle class pours out into society. There has to be a road to progress before there can be a steady stream of traffic moving in that direction and I do not believe that many Blacks can even see, or are ready to see, that path. Even on this Forum there are those Blacks who will respond defensively when someone like you or myself speaks against the ignorant, uneducated, uninspired crap that fills the media; hip-hop and rap are the proverbial elephant in the room when it comes to Black culture and many people absolutely refuse to simply admit that the messages being carried by our music and literature are very destructive.

When you read these Jay-Z lyrics...

"Aint no nigga like the one I got
no one can fuck you betta
sleeps around but he gives me alot
keeps you in diamonds and leathers
friends 'ill tell me I should leave you alone
hah hah, hah hah, hah hah, hah ha
tell the freaks to find a man of there own
(man a they own, man a they own)"

...do we really have to wonder why the image of the Black male is so villified by society? If a White man went on national television and said: "Nigger men are great in bed and can provide their women with wealth and comfort but they are very unfaithful!" ... he would be branded a racist and hated for his remarks. But we will say, and celebrate, the same horrible things about ourselves. Sick.

I have fought, most of my life, to stop being considered "Acting White" because of my education and my career choices. Its been a hard, painful battle but I have finally reached a place where I don't care anymore: if "Acting White" means I pick up a copy of "Good to Great" instead of the latest filth by Zane, or want to watch independent foreign films instead of the latest "Troubled Black Man Struggles in the Ghetto" flick, or go to jazz clubs instead of Jay-Z concerts...that's OK with me.

My wish for Blacks is that those of us who are ready to break our chains and evolve will do it and stop feeling guilty or responsible for those of us who choose not to.

 

Response

For Soul Brotha and Noble druali and for some others,

I believe their is some serious miscommunication.

The reason why I posted was due to the fact that some members on this board constantly associate Ghetto and the negative aspects of hip-hop with Black culture and Black people in general. It sounded like they were dealing with their own internalized racism. I was trying to make the point that Ghetto culture and Black culture are two different things. One does not need to be Black to be Ghetto. Furthermore, being a Black person does not mean being Ghetto. But a Black, Hispanic, white, and, etc...can become part of a "Ghetto culture". Ghetto is a condition that arises when certain social factors are in place and is not race or ethnic specific. That is all that I am saying. I do not put all lower class Blacks in one group as being Ghetto in behavior and I definitely do not praise all middle and upper class Blacks. Again, please thouroughly re-read my posts.

Peace and Blessings,

--Jacklyn

As far as the comments about the use of my sociology degree and the movie Stomp the Yard, no comment.

 

:idea: Okay then since black people do live in "ghettos" and many of our most famous people have risen themselves up (or not) from these "ghettos" then how can these things NOT be a part of our culture unfortunately since they obviously exist within our communities.

 

nobledruali

As I mentioned before, we have had a miscommunication. I tried my best to explain my position to you. It seems that you have a lot of questions. Maybe, it would be better if we discussed this in FlashChat. In doing so, it would provide an area to have a better conversation to discuss this issue until we reach an understanding. Obviously, the scarce periodic posts is getting us nowhere.

Peace and Many Blessings.

--Jacklyn

 

Re: nobledruali

:? Okay no problem.

 

Flash Room

Nobledruali,

I am going to FlashChat right now.

Peace.

Jacklyn

 

This response was worth bumping up. You rocked it, Philly.

 

So if I disagree with you, am I one of those ignorant blacks? Is it not ignorant to not have a open mind about something, or stereotype? They're so many things which are false, ignorant, and just plain stereotypes in your post. I can't even touch on everything. I don't like to get into my personal life. But like I said, I've lived in both situatons. Lower class and now middle class. So I've seen both sides.

I find it funny how foolish people can be. Hip-hop is a art like it or not. If people select to abuse it with negative lyrics what can you do? People can use rap as a scapegoat, but getting rid of hip-hop will not end the violence in the world. Especially the black community. When will people realize that? You chose to quote JayZ's negative lyrics, but you don't quote Common's, Talib's,etc positive lyrics? Do you eve know who those two brothas are? Or you choose to only focus and critize the negative rap? If you're going to make a argument, be fair. The majority of the people who purchase the hip-hop CD's merchandise, and pay $80 to attend a concert are usually the wealthy white kids. And a typical rap artist or music stations like BET, who is owned by a white man, will show that. Whatever it takes to make money. That's all Americans care about.

Now you might say, "well JayZ is a black man. He should be showing a example". I agree. But those negative lyrics sell. If I tell him to stop saying those things, then I better be ready to pay his bills for him. Because everyone has a right to make money legally. In terms of role model, whatever happened to our parents, and just people around us?


It seems like some here have given up. That's ok. I won't. I help run a youth at risk of trouble basketball league with the local police on the weekends. I also do numerous volunteer work in my community. I am only one man, but I am trying my best to be a positive role model and teach the youth. I know what's wrong with the black community, but I'm not just going to talk about it and brag about how far I am in life compared to the average "ghetto black", just to fill my ego like some. We are all one. United we rise, devided we fall. If your brotha falls and he doesn't realize that, help him get up. Don't critize him, or brag about how far you are ahead of him. That's all I'm saying.

 

Jeverage, what kinds of programs are you involved to help black children? You mentioned them somewhere, I can't remember in which thread, so I'm asking the question here.

 

Soul Brotha, in response to your Post...

Regardless of whether or not hip-hop/rap is art it is still very damaging and hurtful to the Black consciousness. Yes, there are artists that offer positive messages but these men and women are not what the media pushes to the forefront or what our young men and women respond to in the greatest numbers or with the greatest intensity. Why? Because its human nature to connect with a message that you already believe and that reinforces your self-image. In America, we have always been an oppressed race and many of us are angry, frustrated, and bitter; of course many Blacks respond to movies and music that embody those same feelings. You tell me, what rappers/hip-hop artists are leading the industry right now and what messages are they spreading among our people? Give me hard numbers and data, not your opinion.

We NEED to criticize our "brother" of he is doing something to destroy not only himself but his entire community. The fact that we as Blacks act like its anathema to criticize our own failings is one of the things that has helped keep us oppressed and ignorant. Are you a religious man "Soul_brotha"? If so, then you know that criticism is a part of learning and growth. When we are made to understand the error of our ways then we are enlightened. That does not come without criticism. Through criticism our parents teach us to be better men and women, they point out our failings and our wrongs, and they help us discover new ways of walking and talking. Don't criticize? How can you work with youth without some criticism? Criticism happens as soon as you tell someone they are doing something the wrong way. We need to be our harshest critics so that we can grow.

Am I ignorant for not having an open mind about being called a Nigga? Am I ignorant for not having an open mind to enjoying music that praises my brothers and sisters for being ignorant, uneducated, violent, lawless, greedy, and godless? Is that what you call ignorance? If so, then I beg God to keep me ignorant because that sort of "open mindedness" is poison. Stereotyping? Is it a stereotype to say that many young Black men feel that speaking clearly and intelligently means they are "acting White"? Is it stereotyping to say that a lot of hip-hop/rap music espouses greed, misogyny, irreverence, and the destruction of self?

I'll put a challenge to you, "Soul_brotha": You show me where hip-hop/rap music has made a positive influence on our culture, show me where the leading rappers and hip hop artists are spreading peace, wisdom, and self-esteem, show me that the majority of the c/rap is not negative and damaging, and I will openly and very honestly apologize and admit my "ignorance" and "close mindedness". Ask me to show you where our music is destroying the fabric of our consciousness and esteem and I will happily do so, giving you facts instead of my opinion, giving you data instead of emotional ranting.

Speak some wisdom and show me the error of my ways.

 

Hello AquaPeach,

In the past I have worked with young people in the community as far as being a mentor with an organization in Milwaukee--it was a while ago. Therefore, I cannot remember the actual name. Currently, I am finishing my degree and I have not joined any organizations that help children were I currently reside. I checked them out, but a lot of the people who run these organizations are more into status and titles than helping the community or they suffer from major burn-out b/c of the lack of community support. In all, there are not any organizations here that helps Black children. I have researched, and I have not found one that was effective and progressive. Also, a lot of my classes was occupying a great deal of my time. I felt like I was in school for 24 hours. Furthermore, there is a lot of infighting and squabbling among Blacks as far as ideology, solutions to the problems we face, and etc... I tried to start something on campus as far as addressing the needs of students of color on campus and dealing with issues in the Black community. However, all the people I tried to work with talked the talk but was not willing to walk the walk. Also, people were not showing up to meetings or they were late, they didn't come to meetings prepared, and etc... In all, they were not serious. People in my city are not politically and socially conscious. They are too much involved in their own lives and own problems not realizing that their lack of political and community activity is the main reason they continue to face the problems they deal with on a daily basis--high rate of unemployment, environmental hazards, a piss poor public education system, continued racism and discrimination on the job, when getting loans, and etc...

However, I am not going to let it stop me from pursuing my passion. Right now, I am "re-grouping", building my knowledge, strength, and spirit, and planning for my future. I can't help anybody until I help myself. Therefore, at this time, I am just preparing to graduate and looking for social/human organizations I can be employed.

Thank you for asking.

Peace and Blessings,

Jacklyn

Furthermore, I definitely understand both sides of SoulBrotha and PhillyLove3242.

Living in this city I live in, I had to learn--the hard way-- that you cannot change someone else's mind, it is their decision whether or not they want to change it. All I can do is offer information--the person can take it from there. I cannot control what other people do, I can only control what I do. However, I am in my right to "put someone in check" if they violate my personal space by physically or verbally attacking me. Furthermore, you cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. What I can do is work with those who are on my level as far as having the same goals in mind regardless if they are lower class, middle class, upper class, Black, White, Hispanic, Baptist, Muslim, and etc...It is about sending out the signals and working with those who respond who feel and think the same as you do. All human beings are entitled to their own choices. No one has the right to take a person's power of choice away. Now, choices, contrary to popular American belief, does affect the family, the community, and society. Therefore, understand the power that you have and be wise when you use it, take in consideration all factors and who you impact when you make your choice, and be prepared to deal with the consequences of the choices that you make. At the end of the day, however, it is your consciousness that has to deal with the decisions that you make in your lifetime. I am a big believer in Karma, and I do believe you pay for what you do while you are living, not when you are dead.

Just reading the different forums has taught me the art of truly listening to the other side especially when it is not what you want to hear (you do not like what the person has to say because you interpret it as being prejudice and a personal attack; or you disagree on an ideological, ethical, philosophical level with the statement a person has made.) However, at the end of the day, when you learn to truly listen to a person, you begin to understand where the person is coming from. In doing so, you may just learn that the both of you are saying the same thing, but expressing it differently. Also, more knowledge is added to your perspective that causes you to see a situation, event, or idea in a totally different light. What is most important, since I intend to go into human/social service field, is that different points of views and perspectives helps to formulate various soltutions to certain problems that infect our society. Also, when one listens--you build quality friendships and interpersonal relationships that could last for a lifetime. I tell you, what seems to be the most simple things we can do as human beings is the hardest--to admit when you're wrong--acknowledging the pain you have inflicted on another person and yourself, to atone for it, and to truly listen to a person--be interested in what a person feels and thinks FOR REAL--not just listen long enough to get your point through or to figure out how to benefit from their vulnerablity. Alot of problems could be solved in this world if we just practiced these 3 principles of admittance, atonement, and listening with true interest and compassion.

Peace and Blessings,

Jacklyn

 

Well, after driving to work and thinking about it I realize there are a few things I want to say and then I will be silent.

First, I am by no means saying that hip hop/rap are responsible for all of the self-hatred and degradation that have corrupted the Black consciousness. What I am saying is that I know music helps shape and manifest the soul of a culture, just like food, dance, art, and literature. When I listen to gospel music or jazz or blues or positive-minded hip hop/rap, the affect it has on my spirit is much different than when I hear lyrics that are focused on Black men killing each other over drugs and money. The message I hear about my race in positive music and media is that we are proud, strong, beautiful, free, and blessed while the message that gets transmitted - even if only for entertainment value - from most of the media that I see and hear regarding Blacks in the mainstream is that we are, as a people and culture, ignorant, violent, crude, uneducated, poor, desperate, lawless, and destined to fail at everything we do accept pulling a trigger or getting a woman pregnant. In my mind, someone has to start looking at the messages that we are feeding ourselves through our music and media and asking some hard questions about why we glory in our own destruction.

 

To begin with, I must say I appreciate the civil/mature manner. I was honestly expecting a childish response. Back to your post. I will address your questions the best I can. But I feel you are twisting my words/opinions towards your favour a bit. Here's why.


The rappers leading the industry are the negative ones. Such as 50 cent, D12, and others. But you tell me, who has the power to decide which artist will be on top of the charts? Most of the big record labels in America are owned by a white man. Even our very "own" BET. Who attends most of the concerts? Who buys most of the CD? Who buys all the $200 jersey's and sneakers? We are minorities. We make up like 10%. Even if every black person in America supports hip-hop, it still wouldn't be one of the best selling music in North America, or the world. Despite the stereotypes, blacks don't support hip-hop as much as whites. The negative images and music made by the whites doesn't represent black culture. The positive rap which have no white influences represent what black is. Those are also facts.


The critisim topic you got me confuse. You definately have to critize a person, but you don't belittle them in any way and look at them like you're better. You critize a person, and help him become a better person. You don't critize, then show off your assets infront of them and try to make them envy of you. I've seen brothas do that. It's wrong. That's all I meant.

How can I say you're ignorant for not allowing some to call you a nigga? I don't mind losing my freedom if anyone thinks of calling me that. Black or white. If so then I'm ignorant. But I feel your opinion on hip-hop is ignorant. If you honestly believe all hip-hop is "being ignorant, uneducated, violent, lawless, greedy, and godless" then you need to go do more research my friend. And I don't mean tuning into your local radio station (which is probably owned by a white man). Go do actually research. I think you'll find such artist as Tribe call quest, Talib, Common, etc quite enjoyable. The positive lyrics, mixed with african/hip-hop beats. Quite nice.


Last but not least. I'm a bit lazy. I just found one article of a hip-hop brotha doing something positive. Didn't really put much effort into it.

Mos Def
http://www.nobodysmiling.com/hiphop/news/86659.php

Here he was trying to help the blacks during the katrina times.He got arrested. Didn't hear much about it. If he was arrested for selling drugs I'm sure we'd still be hearing about it till today. What else? You have Kanye West. Calling Bush out on TV. Very unprofessional, but he was trying to stick up for black America.

DMX built houses and donated 1 million dollars to his old housing project. David Banner donated 2 million. 1 million was for his home state of mississippi which barely got any funds during katrina, and the other was for blacks youths in that state to get scholarships to attend college. P.Diddy had his "vote of die" T-Shirts. Incouraging black youths, and black people in general to vote and make a change in America instead of complaining. Talib owns a baseball cap store in NYC. He employees minorities in the area.

50 Cent and the Game had issues. They worked it out. Though that didn't last long. But the intent was there. Nas and JayZ who had issues for years. Worked things out, showing the black community something positive. That barely got any airtime. But whey they had issues, it got playing time for years on radio. Omarion and Bow wow worked things out.

That's just a few. I doubt you knew some of that. Because why would the media report positive things about hip-hop? It's boring. You feel me now?

 

You make a good point that we should discuss. You said that the negative rappers are leading the industry and that its white people who fund the cancerous messages that are being glorified in the media. Okay. Think about that: every Black man or woman that spends money and time to support these negative rappers is making a choice, conscious or unconscious, to help those who have historically hated and oppressed our people forge ever stronger chains of psychological and spiritual enslavement.

Think about it. If as a Black man I realize that the portrayal of my race is negative and degrading, why would I dare do anything to support that representation? If White people want to be entertained by the image of the Black man being a gun-toting savage with platinum teeth and $1000 shoes, then so be it. But if I want better for the archetype of the Black male in American society, if I know we are better and greater and more beautiful than the images that popular media presents as "being Black in America", then why would I spend a single dollar supporting a book, song, or television show that embodies such negativity?

Let me share this with you. Take it as you will but I hope you take it and think about it. I've been with my wife for years now but when we first got together her daughters asked me very frankly, "Why do Black people get mad when they hear White people say things about them being ghetto or calling them niggas when they do it to each other? If they really care so much, why do they talk about themselves that way?" I was hard pressed to explain all of the social and emotional dysfunction that results from centuries of oppression but, in the end, I had to agree with them: its stupid and contradictory.

Not all hip hop/rap is negative. Of course not. But we have to start looking at the water that is getting poured into the well.

 

I see where you're coming from. There's nothing worse than one-sided exchanges particularly when anyone with common sense can see there's plenty of embedded dysfunction to go around. Many Blacks respect white folks' right to discuss their own issues without us dominating and controlling the platform. We also respect their right to front, cover and present a false impression of their lives. The title of this thread is quite provocative and I do not accept the label "ghetto" simply because of my skin color. I don't feel it's my job to ever provide another vehicle whites can ride on to distract themselves from their own profound shortcomings. There's nothing more insulting than encounting those who actually feel with every fiber of their being that they possess supreme knowledge about every aspect of Black life. I'm entirely skeptical of such people.

@Philly...those opening questions from you stepdaughters are rather pathetic if that's all they could sum up about the Black community. Did you question them about their love of rave parties, exstacy, dogging (outdoor sex), meth and the staggering destruction it's causing among their group? They sound as though they're coming from a position of superiority in my opinion.

 

I agree. I try to be more aware of what I buy. Especially if it affects not just blacks, but minorities across the world. The thing that really bugs me is the blood diamonds. Kids from the coast of africa which I'm from are getting killed everyday for these diamonds. Then when it gets to America, black kids here are getting killed for the same diamonds. All this so some uneducated, ignorant brothas can look "iced out". Nonsense. Stuff like that bugs me.

As for the nigga part. I don't know what to say. I've been asked that by white people I know myself. The only thing I say is don't refer me to that. I can't speak for all blacks.