Free College Education in Germany?

Not sure where to post this, and I apologize for the untimely nature of the article (it's from 2005).

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1604308,00.html

I'm a little upset that I didn't know about this until recently.

No point in dwelling on the negative. Are there other places in Europe (or anywhere for that matter) that offer tuition free college programs? If so, are they available to foreigners?

 

Yea other countries offer scholarships like the Rhodes scholarship. But you can't just get free stuff from another country without being a citizen/permanent resident. You could marry someone from that country.Or under special circumstances like you have something they want or need like scientists,doctors,etc.

 

Yep every BUNDESLAND(we divide the country in Bundeslaender like the US got states) has an own little "under"government and dependent on those in some parts college/university education is free.

 

Stanford and Harvard offer free tuition to undergrads that can demonstrate financial need. All you have to do is get in.

 

Yes , in sweden for example. Most tertiary institutions are tuition free even
for foreign students.

 

The whole of Scandinavia (Norway, Denmark, Sweden).
The programs who accept forregin students will usually teach in English as well...

 

Absolutely. The package also includes "free" healthcare and "free" long-term unemployment benefits.

Just be prepared to pay up to half of your salary in taxes once you start making some euros.

 

Goes to show you that there's nothing for free.

 

If you add health insurance, school money etc, all the things you need in the US, they pay just as much, perhaps even more, than most Europeans do.

Most Europeans do not pay 50% tax though. around 35 % would be normal, and that's normal for americans too. They just don't get the same in return as we do.

After deductions etc, I pay less than 25%
That includes free healthcare, education, 1 year fully paid maternity leave, etc etc It's absolutely worth it. And so will you think the day you're too sick to work.

The number 1 reason why people go personally bankrupt in the US is not because they loose their job, but because they get sick and need to pay medical bills...

 

We don't have free university, but if you're a citizen or permanent resident, then you get the entire fee deferred until you start earning a decent wage at which time your tax increases slightly to cover your fee repayment. Also - the debt is basically interest free, increasing only at CPI.

Personally (probably because I'm biased) I think this is a pretty excellent system. If something is free, it will probably be abused and therefore, I don't think that uni should necessarily be free, but also - because the amount doesn't have to be paid upfront, anyone can study and it is not restricted by financials.

 

Sorry Ronja, but your statements are not based on facts. The income tax rates in Europe are significantly higher than in the US.

If you make $70K in the US you pay 28%
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
If you make S70K (say, 55K Euros) in Denmark you pay 37%
https://www.cfe-eutax.org/taxation/personal-income-tax/denmark
If you make $70K in Germany you pay 42%
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/germany/germany_tax.asp
If you make the same amount in the UK you pay 40%
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/tax/income_tax_rates.htm

Also tax paid on other things such as fuel is the reason Europeans pay a lot more for gasoline (about twice as much), and most other products are less expensive in the states than in Europe because of less tax. VAT is staggering and if you buy a car you will double the price of the car sometimes to pay the taxes. This is unheard of in America. Ask any European who tries to shop online at US stores. It is frustrating to search on ebay or a dept store site and see such low prices only to go into shock once you compute the tax and shipping, which makes it unaffordable for most.

So, to say universal healthcare and state-paid higher education is free is just ignoring the reality of crippling taxes.

I have spent some time in Norway and I know that a lot of people don't own cars simply because they can't afford the tax.

 

As I said: what about ADDING the additional costs people in the US have, and then see how much they pay. (Remember not all people are single either, some have to pay for a health insurance for a family of 4 or 5). The average annual pay for a health insurance for a family of 4 in the US is 12.700$
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
That's on top of the 28% tax.
Which menas they pay
19.600+12.400=32.000 for tax and healthcare combined

That's 45.7%....

Higher than any of the European countries you mentioned.

 

Very valid point Ronja, but here is the key, in my opinion.

In one system you pay significantly higher taxes, but have more central government services.

In the other system, you pay significantly lower taxes, and have a choice of how much you will spend on services (if you want the services--believe it or not some people choose to not carry health insurance) which are not provided by the central government.

Both systems have their merits, but I would argue that the latter provides more individual freedoms and less govt intrusion, even if part of that freedom is the freedom to fail.

 

That would depend on how you define freedom.

Knowing I and my son and everyone else I love, will get the best healthcare the country can provide, and knowing none of us will loose our home because of high medical bills, despite everyone's individual economy, means I have one less worry.

Not having to worry is what being free is to me.

Besides: we all get sick one day. Then you get your money back.

P:S I might add I personally know no less than 3 American couples who are "medical refugees" in Scandinavia. Despite insurance, when they had children who were born disabled/permanently ill, the insurance didn't cover the the treatment the children needed, and "only" having normal jobs they could not afford paying it themselves. Yeah, that's freedom allright. Having to "flee" to another continent to get medical care for your child....

 

No, freedom does not have a variable definition. What you have described is not freedom, but dependency...dependency of your federal govt, which is basically socialism.

In discussions on this subject, there always comes a point where the proponent of socialism will offer a "sob story" of this or that individual who couldn't receive care, without providing any details of how the individual ended up in that circumstance. There are just as many instances of the other extreme, where someone in dire need of health services has their life in the balance while the federal govt decides what kind of health care they will receive and when. Plenty of them flee from Canada as medical refugees to the US where they can get exactly the health care they choose, need and are willing to pay for to save their life of that of a loved one.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080301.wheart01/BNStory/National/home

Again, it goes back to freedom, which includes freedom of choice.

The good thing for all of us though, is that we can choose where we live and which system of govt we will have over us.

It has been said that one major difference between American society and European society is that most of the risk-takers and yearners of freedom crossed the Atlantic to the New World long ago, leaving a relatively more risk-averse population behind in the Old World.

 

I disagree that what I describe is dependency.

If so, people in the US are equally dependant, but on the insurance companies. And they're private businesses who are supposed to make money. So just like insurance companies here might find some excuse not to give you money back when you've had your camera stolen on vacation, in US you'll find that there's more than one incidence where someone have been rejected treatment for whatever reason....

I agree that it's nice to have a choice. But when it comes to health and education I strongly prefer the European version. Those two are the most important building blocks in our society. Besides, it's bad enough to be sick. Anyone who's sick should be able to focus on getting well, and not having to worry how to pay the bill.

Besides: we do actually have choices here despite the healthcare being governmental. Don't know how Portugal works, but I can decide which hospital to go to, which doctor to use etc, just like in the US. It's not like I have to use the local ones if I don't want to.
And if I am unlucky enough to get some rare disease they can't cure here (small country, we don't have all expertise) they'll send me abroad. A friend of mine were send to UK for treatment.

I love paying my taxes, and think I absolutely get my money back.

I find the American model to be short-thought and selfish.

 

Good discussion. I hope we can agree to disagree.

 

Certainly. I don't think we would ever come to an agreement on this. We've obviously get very different values in life...

 

I hope one day we can bring this foreign concept of Free College education to the U.S.

 

The current system of education in Spain is known as LOE after the Ley Orgánica de Educación, or Fundamental Law of Education. State education in Spain is free and compulsory education lasts from 6 to 16 years of age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Spain