Does Evil Come From GOD ???

I see it as he forces as to obey, since he is putting hell perspective on our heads if we don't.

And I'm not sure what are you saying when you say "just a twist you are all trying to put on something that began as perfect", but I assure you I am not trying to put a twist on anything, but I hardly find it perfect to place/expose your child who you love (cause God loves us all) a plate full of wonderful candies to stare at, and then say if you touch it you'll go to hell. Would you do that to your child in the first place?

 

amen sassy, and you have said your peace, i would leave it at that, we know what we believe and they can believe what they choose, that is free will

 

i don't believe anything, i am questioning.
if you have any answers, thats why i've asked my questions for.

example: he wanted us to fail, and give in to the temptation, or he wouldn't have placed temptation right under our nose, just so we can convince ourselves that HIS WAY is the best, without blindly obeying , and our obidience to him to come from our own strong conviction rather than blind obidience.
But, whatever.

 

It doesn't really make much sense to say that 'god' isn't the originator of all evil, yet, he created Lucifer, who then created all evil when he was casted out of heaven and then became Satan, unless you are referring to Lucifer as the original manifestation of the force of evil WHEN he turned into SATAN, but not being the actual creator of that force all on his own.

Seychelles has pretty much said what all of us, who don't necessarily follow the bible, are thinking, again and again.

 

well I guess for the same reason on the mirror side, those of us who believe in the bible, find no sense to your reasoning either..

If I train my child with all the skills to make something of himself and he chooses not to do that, is it my fault? and did I set him up to fail? no.


but its ok if you guys don't believe.

Who knows.. maybe I'm wrong and the bible really is a book of fairy tales..

I can't say I am any more a good authority on religion as right now I have none.

 

QSassy, Seychelles made great points...

Here is my question to you:

God, in his love for his creation and human kind, WHY did he put in their presence, the beautiful fruit of sin!

Second question: unlike any parent, God knows EVERYTHING...past, present and FUTURE...why didn`t he stop us??? bcoz of free will you say???
If my child as the free will to fall in the fire, am I going to let him fall if I know he would fall??? bcoz I`d say "Oh well, he has free will to burn himself and suffer" ??????? :roll:

God, or whatever you call him, has a purpose that we don`t know...some, like Tucker and you Qsassy, just say "well, I was taught that, I`ll believe it...the Bible says it"

Some others, Seychelles, Sardonic, me, etc...dare ask: well...WHY??????

 

I think until proof shows otherwise all humans possess the traits for good and evil. But when its all said and done most of the world is varying shades of gray. What would be considered evil like murder. Would be justified in self-defense,war,etc. So I would say varying shades of gray.

But I think Joseph Conrad but it best.

The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness.

--Joseph Conrad

 

Following up on the quote, jxsilicon, people always, always, always use 'the Devil' as a scapegoat for their own wrongdoings, and yet, seem to acknowledge the 'god-given gift' of free-will.

 

While I do believe the demonic force around us would love us to sin..

I do not think anyone can honestly blame him/them for our errors in judgment or mistakes they have done in their life. The Devil Satan or any of his demons has not made us do anything.

We all make our choices.. and we do indeed reap what we sow by them..


as for the questions by JREMINATOR above..

I don't think God did create the fruit of sin.. it was born in its creation when Satan lied.. when he chose to sin.

as for the second, why if God can see everything including the future did he create us, why didn't he stop us, etc?

I have pondered that myself. It could be he sees something better in the future ahead that we do not.

I'm probably the worst person to be on here defending the bible, as right now I have lost my faith. I'm only answering on one I once had. Unfortunately it was twisted and so there are many things I myself have questions and doubts on myself... which kills me why I keep coming in here.. its like a driving force I can't seem to stop..

 

amen sassy

 

Do you realize, dear Qsassy that you are saying there is something that exists and that WAS NOT created by God...when the Bible clearly says "all has been made by Him and all that exist, exists BY HIM" ????? :roll:

Like some Nigerian friend of mine would say to you "Tink about it now"!!!!

Anyway, I like the fact that you keep posting in this thread...DOUBT exists bcoz of BELIEF...and FAITH is nothing without DOUBT...but an insane dogma!!!!!

 

well somethings can be started w/o their original intent..

such as those blasted bombs the terrorists wanted to put together...

the ingredients all on their own are not bombs, but taking those ingredients and mixing, makes something quite dangerous and powerful...

but would you say the ones who invented those items, did so with the intent of a bomb? no.. that would be crazy...

so why if Man or the Angels who disobeyed and became Demons, could they not chose to do something that God did not plan?

There is a ton of things I have doubts on..

like what happens when we die?

is there a paradise still coming?

a 1,000 yr rein?

A judgment day?
There are so many things in the bible which I question more... something so trivial as if God created evil is just head games to me.. because I think way bigger things are at stake

and those things I'd like someone to tell me the answers to..

 

Ah, QSassy, I see you know your Biblical stuff...the 100 yr reign, not everyone knows about these things...or the 144000, etc...

BUT, saying that the question about EVIL`s creation is head game!!!!!

IT is the beginning and the end of us, darling...it is what maked you either go to heaven (and bliss forever) or hell (if we are not already living in it)...of course this is if you believe in heaven and hell...another debate

To me the question of Evil`s origin is Sooooooooo important...the fruit of knowledge isn`t an ingredient of a bomb...it is ONE thing that lead to man`s downfall...I believe we should interested in knowing what started a place quite as fucked up as the earth!

The other questions...well, all we can do is think with the smart brain God gave us, and that we use waaaaaay too seldom (especially all the "faith" ppl who swallow without chewing!!)

Peaaaaaaaaace

 

you mean the faithful people who follow without thought?

I used to be one.. totally brainwashed..

Followed without doubting.

See the thing with the Evil question is.. who is to know...
that's like saying what comes first.. the chicken or the egg?

I mean I don't honestly think that in any way God is responsible for evil.. I don't think he planted it in us..

I think that his creation took his gift of freewill and rebelled, but I think that only happened because he did not create us to be zombies and just obey.

That is why no matter what I say.. I will think what I think.. that he did not create evil in us.. but you will always say it was there..

its a circle we can not get out of..

funny you mentioned the 144,000...

yeah I know about the chosen ones to go to 'heaven' too..

sigh..

well I did..

 

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

What version is that from?

 

King James bible

 

interesting.. I see the King James reads close to that (or is that)

here are a few other version translations:
The Message:
I am God, the only God there is. I form light and create darkness,
I make harmonies and create discords.
I, God, do all these things.

New Living Translation:
7I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

New American Standard Bible
7The One (A)forming light and (B)creating darkness,
Causing well-being and (C)creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.


Interesting how they do not all call it evil though.. It comes with a different light with some of these other translations..

 

That is the translation from the Hebrew word of ra’ah which means evil. I don't get in arguements over translations,interpretations,etc. There has already been plenty of bloodshed over that. You can take it as you want.

 

Finally someone quoted concrete excerpts to what we've all been saying, that God is the originator of everything, including Sassy, so I see this discussion as over since there's nothing more to add.