Did The Current State Of Feminism Kill Chivalry?

Um...wtf does not doing your hair and makeup have to do with gender roles? I've always done my hair and makeup because I enjoy it. I also understand the cultural reasons I choose to do so. That doesn't make me any less a feminist. I also shave my legs - same thing - it's got zip to do with my politics.

 

Actually, a lot of that sounded like evo pysch based stuff. Elephants do a damned good job of raising kids in groups of females. Regardless of the biological "imperetive" being missing in order to assist in raising another cow's children, they do it. So, in many societies do other women, especially grandmothers, aunts, etc.

 

Want to find me a non-evo psych source for that, please? No, men do NOT achieve the most in their early 20's. Trust me, I have a 24 year old son who still needs reminding to tie his shoes.

Your entire line of reasoning sounds like pop psychology and outside of evo-psych, has no basis in science.

 

That's the relationship stage not the courting stage

 

Kindness. Laughter. Courtesy. Respect. Communication. Intimacy. Pretty simple, really.

 

In csbean's defense, there is at least one study I read which stated that most of the notable men in history made their mark before turning forty. The researchers postulated that part of their motivation was to reveal how capable they were to the women in their lives.

 

Very true. The only person I can think of who did it after forty was Ben Franklin

 

Um..people DIED before forty during much of history

 

Well, that is not the same as saying generally men achieve it in their twenties. Just saying.

 

And the Master of Fucking Obvious Award goes to . . .

Yes, despite the relatively recent development of longer life spans due to myriad advances in medical science, most men who were A. brilliant and B. notable made their strongest contributions in their twenties and thirties.

If you want to update the analysis to the post-germ theory era, you have Ernest Hemingway who published The Sun Also Rises at 27. Orson Welles wrote, directed, acted as the lead character in Citizen Kane at the age of 25. Albert Einstein revised our understanding of the natural world at the age of 37.

 

Most men don't achieve much period, but those that do generally get it done before 40.

 

In the more traditional marriage, how are the partners not equal? If the man works to provide for his family while the wife takes care of home and the kids.... whose job is considered the lesser? Who sits upon the committee that determines the weight of the tasks performed by the husband and wife?

Even in what I believe you're referring to as an equal marriage, I contend that it is truly not equal and never will be. In order for it to be, both partners have to contribute an exactly identical income. Both partners have to do an exactly identical share of housework. Both partners have to have an identical role in the child bearing and raising process (Wife breastfeeds on M, W and F... husband gets T, Th and Sat? Alternate Sundays?). There will never ever be a true 50/50 split.

At any rate, everyone is different. Our goal should be to find someone who compliments us and our lifestyle preferences. A more traditional woman would do well with a more traditional man and so on and so on. There's really never any need for one to look at anothers lifestyle choice and cast judgement.

 

It's rude for you to be walking in front of, or behind me. When we walk together and approach the door together, who gets right of way?

 

:smt023 This.

 

Well, it really depends on how you define "making one's mark". Once you take the "rock stars" of their respective areas of excellence out of the equation, the reality is that men approach their greatest earning power in their 40's and 50's. This is obvious if you look at the pay packages among CEO's or even people in any profession, save athletes.

The point is that experience is the greatest determinant in making a mark in any walk of life. So, while there have been very exceptional people making their mark earlier in life, they prove to be the exceptions to the rule. Whether, it's our nation's president, business executives, actors or philosophers, etc., those most often credited as making their mark do it after many years of toil, and generally after 40.

 

In regarding to practicing chivalry, i do what my ma taught me. Which was to hold open doors, and pull out chairs, and walk curbside next to a woman and all that.

I am a gentleman.

 

rayer:

 

Earning more money as you age your way up the corporate ladder is not what I was referring to. Sitting in a cubicle or the corporate board at Apple is not a notable achievement. Founding Apple and playing a significant role in the personal computer revolution at the age of 21 is.

You can't legally run for the American presidency until you're 35, so that's not a good example. I would also urge you research what I am saying before asserting your statement in bold, because it simply isn't true. Philosophy is the area where your argument holds the greatest traction, but is less true in the sciences, literature, and music. In some instances you have people who don't make it to 40 like MLK or Charlie Parker, so it is possible to speculate that would've produced accomplishments of even greater value.

 

Benjamin Franklin is a great example of someone who didn't make his mark until later in life the same can be said about all the founding fathers. Mark Twain wasn't published until his thirties. Maya Angelous as well Madam CJ Walker didn't make a mark until their 40s. I'm sure I could find more but that's off the top of my head.

 

I'd suggest that you are choosing to define, "making your mark", quite narrowly, my friend. A more reasonable definition would involve making a significant achievement, which doesn't require revolution, but rather advancement.

As to my example of president, I think it speaks well to the issue of experience, and the value that people place on well seasoned leaders. I strongly disagree, despite your assertion, as those people are the exceptions, as I stated, not the rule. CEO's are an example of people who've made their mark in business, and are generally older than 40. You can make your mark in many different ways, as a coach, as a teacher, as a research scientist, any number of ways. In other words, it's your opinion, not a fact, and reasonable minds define success, or "making your mark" differently.