Could This Be a Reason Why Many U.S. Relationships Fail?

I was wondering if the individualistic/"I could care less" attitude that prevails in American culture, especially in the area of dating and relationships, could be one of the main reasons why a lot of relationships fail in this country and why there are so many divorces. One of the things I struggled a lot with when I first got to the U.S. was adapting to that aspect of American culture after being raised in a separate culture where respect and courtesy toward everyone, especially to elders and authority figures and even to strangers, is highly emphasized. In fact, humility and modesty are traits that are in bred in children growing up in most countries in Africa.


So it used to surprise me during my freshman and sophomore years to run into my classmates outside of the classroom and notice that a lot of them would simply act as if they didn't even know me. I had worked on group projects with some of them and even helped a great deal of them with their papers, but out of the classroom, many didn't even bother to say "hi" or to make eye contact with me.


The culture shock also manifested itself to me in the area of dating and relationships. Having been raised in a culture that stresses the importance of having a kind heart and the importance of community and getting along with people, it was shocking to me to hear women say "He's too nice...I need a thug, I need a bad boy." My humility and kindness, instead of being considered an asset as is the case with women where I come from, was perceived instead as a weakness and misinterpreted as me not having a backbone.


As a result, I have had to consistently strike a balance between being courteous and having an edge when necessary, so that no one thinks I'm a doormat or pushover. I remember some time last summer when on my way out of a local mall, I held the door for this white woman who was walking a few steps behind me. In her arrogance, probably thinking I was trying to use that as a means to hit on her, she gave me this condescending look as if it she were entitled to that from me and didn't even say a word of thanks. When I got to the next door, I didn't hold it for her and if it slapped her on the cheek, that was her problem.


My main point is that while I of course appreciate the endless list of freedoms that are available to anyone who lives in America, I also think the concept of individualism is producing more of a negative effect on the culture than a positive one.


These days, especially in Philadelphia, you can barely even say "hi" to a stranger on the street. Few people acknowledge each other or talk to anyone. People just look at others as if they could care less whether or not they existed. Most of all, I think this unfortunate idea that to be humble and polite implies weakness is very damaging to relationships. Very few people seem willing to sincerely work out problems within relationships. Everyone wants to be right. The partner who did wrong doesn't see him or herself saying: "I'm sorry...I made a mistake. Please forgive me." More often than not, when things don't work out between potential couples or when people break up, they become bitter enemies. It's often "Don't you ever talk to me anymore; If you see me, don't even say "hi" and continue moving. Nothing."


And while I support equality between the sexes, it just seems to me as if many times a lot of American women also want to be the man in a relationship and that the whole feminism thing has unfortunately been taken the wrong way by many of them and has gotten into their heads. This leaves me wondering many times if American women are in general less sensitive and less forgiving than women in other parts of the world.



For example, I was talking to a woman several months ago and things seemed to be going well. Unfortunately, we tried three times to go out on a date, but things didn't work out due to conflicting schedules. The third time was a circumstance beyond my control, as I had to travel out of town for an important family issue. I called the woman in question and got her voicemail. I left her a polite message two days before the event was to take place and also followed up with a text message apologizing for what happened and saying that I really didn't want to lose the opportunity to get to know her and would like to work things out so we could still meet when I got back. No response to any of my messages, although I respected her decision.



I have since moved on and neither of us has been communicating with the other. Yet, it's gotten to the point where when she walks into my gym and happens to see me working out on a machine that is close to her direction, she goes all the way around to avoid me...because in her mind she doesn't want to give me an opportunity to talk to her again. When I see things like these, I just shake my head in amazement. At 30, I've reached the age where I definitely need to start looking for a potential wife, so I definitely don't want to have anything to do with women who behave in such a manner. In all, for someone from a different culture, these have been amazing experiences.

 

I lived on campus during my college years, so I probably had a different experience..

people used to come over to the apartment after class and hangout, talk about who was smarter, drink beer, fool around with girls, etc..

I gained friends there, outside of the classroom, so i never really felt that people completely isolated themselves from others, while there..

as for philly, I don't speak a lot to strangers, but dudes usually nod their head at me, or ask me "what's up," while walkin around the crib, or down the street... They aren't offering money and shit, but they still say somethin, to acknowledge your existence.

so much in life is dependent on who you are, what you look like, your outward attitude, etc...

which is sad in a way, because not everyone else shares those good experiences that others had..

as for africa...I always read about villages raising kids (in philly, people want their kids to have less to do with anyone else, because of the high amount of violence around here) and people generally looking out for each other..

I wish we (black people in general) were more caring about each other, instead of trying to act harder than the next guy, worrying about who has more bling, and crap like that. I see how other groups treat their people (notice how indians usually hire more indians at stores?) and wonder why we aren't doing the same more often.

 

Ha.

Shit sounds familiar.

Happened to me in a Southern HBCU too.

Shiiit, STILL happens now in med school/the hospital.

With grown ass students, nurses, nurses aides, medical assistants AND even MDs.

GADDAMN! We just hung out de other night too...

But now, I ignore them mofos right back.


.....as for the rest of your post...

Go home and get dat wife...

...big ass guaranteed.

 

I knew some friendly docs that cracked jokes and talked during surgeries. I also knew some that were complete assholes, who expect you to behave like a kid. You know, don't speak unless spoken to..

because you best believe that, if you speak to them first, they won't say shit back to you...but they DO expect you to speak if they talk to you.

I don't hold grudges tho...

If I was expected to leave my job only after my work was done for the day, I would be angry all the time too.

Surgeons just can't "up and roll" at 5 pm like everyone else, and finish their work tomorrow..

 

Re:

PettyOfficer and Lucifer, as usual, I appreciate your responses. Petty, I hear you about what you say regarding people judging others here so much either on what they think their status may be, what they look like, etc. Yet, I've always been one who carries himself with confidence and at least, based on the feedback from the women I have met, I have received quite some points in the looks domain. It's just unfortunate however, that I often tend to meet the shallow types who aren't very intellectual. And even though I had bad experiences with black American women, it's been just as bad with the white ones I've met too because first off, you never know if the woman would even consider dating a black man in the first place. You may try to talk to her and she may get scared/nervous, especially on the street. Next thing you know, she's calling the cops.

People tell me I'm a good guy, but I've been through so much pain and I think I honestly deserve a lot better than this.

 

I dig you on that one. The older I get, the more I like to think about different things in life. I also appreciate someone who mirrors me in that sense.

As for shallow women, I don't meet too many of those, because I tend to avoid them at all cost, period. If I can not expect you to hold a decent conversation, have original thoughts, and not always go with the flow, I do not have any business being in a relationship with you.

Going back to Old City...

I pass there from time to time, but I think about what you mentioned in a previous thread. Now everytime I'm down there, I'm trying to figure out who's shallow and who's someone I could possibly be with

:wink:

 

Surgeons are overrated.
Heh.

 

they make pretty nurses cry tho



Seen that happen a few times..

I also seen two surgeons fight because one kept poking his lighted-head piece, into the other guys set, during a CT case. They were working on opposite sides of the patient, but the one dude just couldn't take the bumping anymore..

anesthesia guys don't get the respect they deserve tho..

they get to sit down and watch the surgeons work and all..but still..

 

Yo those anesthesia mofos are da shit...tryin' na get in on dat too...I'm too laid back for most o' the rest o' medicine as a whole...

Gonna be wishful thinkin' though unless ...i can get my step 2 to be GANGSTAFIED!!!...wish me luck in July 14th playa!

Anyhooo....

Shaft, you needs to get ur black ass outta Philly...try some other town/city...get all up in that Minnesota dawg... I hear there be vanilla in dem there frozen lakes...c'mon man...

 

don't get me wrong..

you shouldn't expect to be lighting up joints, as an anesthesiologist during surgery, but it is more laid back, as you mentioned. You still have to know your shit, but you won't be in the trenches like a nerve-wrecked surgeon, trying to figure out why so many red thingies around the heart, are squirting out equally red juice



Whatever you do tho is good. You're one of the few, the proud, the Marines..hmmmm...the med student..my bad.. who has a chance at becoming a doc

 

I believe the cause for many divorces is simply no wants to put the work in to succeed, now hold that though for a second. We know the US is viewed by many in the world as the land of milk and honey and everyone still would like to get here. Americans though take all the shit we have for granted and many of us have our hand out expecting to be hooked up for or with something.

Folks that come to the US come from a place where they worked hard and got almost no where because their country is not as economically mature as the US, so they worked hard when they get to the US and blow up the spot. Now if you are used to getting a lot for a little why would you change? Americans are so used to getting everything they wanted and when they wanted with less effort or work why wouldn't that spill over into a marriage or relationship.

To be successful at anything you have to put in the work, please believe marriages that have lasted 25 or 50 years lasted that long because work was put it. It wasn't all smiles and vacation there were arguments, anger and accusations. Up years and down years. You gotta put in the work and be committed to marriage. Maybe A Rough Ride Is A Great Education.

 

I agree with you, Malik. You summarized exactly my thinkiing and experiences. Like I suggested before, I think that in general, American women, especially white American women, grew up living very spoiled and sheltered lives. They are used to getting their way, having men kiss up to them and behaving like average frustrated chumps around them, etc. Very few of them have had to struggle and work as hard as some of us who came here from foreign countries. I really do admire my parents, who have been married now for 30 years.


Let me give you another example as well that supports my argument I made above and why I personally think that in general, American women are less sensitive and less forgiving than women in other parts of the world. Although I'm not a big fan of online dating because there are so many "flakes" out there, etc., I've been talking on and off with this white woman for almost two months. I didn't hear from her again in a little while, so I took a moment to break the silence yesterday. Her response:

"I'm not interested in talking to you. I'm no longer single. Bye." Just like that. Cold. No emotion. Couldn't care less about how I would feel receiving such words. I respected her decision but made sure I gave her a good piece of my mind in return and told her to go to hell. It's unbelievable.

 

I hear what each of you is saying, but I believe divorce is simply more acceptable here. In countries where there is still a very low divorce rate it is usually do to the social stigma attached to divorce.

I do not believe divorce is a failure and long term marriage is a success. And I will take it farther and say that the whole Judeo-Christian concept of two people who are married until death is something that has been socially feed to us and is not necessarily what is best.

 

Shaft,

While I'm not discrediting your experiences in any way, I do have to disagree, to an extent. The situation you described is horrible. What she said was rotten. I'll agree with you there. BUT, think of the context. I'm sure if you were face to face with her or even talking over the phone, you would have gotten a nicer "brush-off". People have a tendency to be extremely rude over emails, etc. You've seen it here on this forum.

Anyone can say what they want, in any terms that they want, over email. You aren't face to face with someone. It's just words that you type and send away. You don't ever have to be bothered with seeing their reaction, so you don't have to worry about what your words could be doing to the other person. It's over cyberspace.

That's why I won't do online dating. You can be whomever you want over the internet. I'd rather meet someone face to face.

If you continue to get encounters like what you described in a face to face setting, then I'd be more apt to agree with you.

But, hey, I'm a nice girl, and people try to step on me all the time. Nice girls finish last.

 

relationships failing

Shaft I will have to agree with what you are saying and add a little bit. I do believe the majority of people today are self-absorbed and come to a relationship with the mentality of "what can I get out of this relationship"-instead of "What can I give to this relationship". Then-when the going gets tough and one little problem comes up-they are sleeping with someone else(which does not even constitue as a "real " relationship)! Then they leave their spouse thinking it is greener on the other side-when in fact they have the same problems they had in the first marriage.(I am not saying there is no excuse for divorce), but instead of putting their enery into the difficult marriage-they just leave their spouse because they had some good sex and think that person is going to make them happy! I have seen it happens so many times!!! Don't stop being the nice guy-because some of us are attracted to nice guys!! Some up us gave up the bad boys when we grew up!!So keep on looking and you will fine the right woman!

 

Can you hear it, that was the other shoe that just dropped. In the US there's no longer a stigma attached to divorcing, it's encouraged to part ways with pressure from both sides. It's promoted in movies, celebrated on TV, even the president got a pass. So why would you wanna stay in your relationship when your marriage hits a rough patch...

Shaft you should not have been put off by what appeared to be her sudden coldness. You were speaking sporadically! Were you interested in visiting her? Were you real with her about what direction you wanted to go with her? Finally IMO she did the both of you a favor, she told you straight up, I am no longer interested. Should she have lied or should she have strung it out then stated I am no longer interested?

 

that is so true, especially with the movie part..

I just seen Meet the Browns, and Rick Fox's character was a divorcee with 3 kids. In other movies I've seen, new romances heat up between people that were previously divorced. So yes, in a way, the media is accepting the fact that people get divorced more frequently than they did back in the old days.

I think this is part due to the fact that more and more women are going to college and landing decent jobs. This is making them less reliant on males, as was the case many years ago. No longer are women expected to stay home, breed, and take care of the house. So, when things get rough, it becomes easier to part ways and find someone more suitable. Simply because women can now take care of themselves.



This is an eye opener though. As men, we should learn not to take our women for granted. They don't need us as much as they did back in the old days.

 

Well there is a clear difference between rough patches in a good relationship and a relationship that's simply not working. As the serenity prayer goes, God give me the wisdom to know the difference. But sure, taking your woman for granted puts you on your way to losing her.

 

all i know is women don't need to hang around in something that is going nowhere..

back in the old days, all you had to do was walk outside, club a jawn over the head, and drag her back to your cave..

now you have to date her, treat her right, and understand that she is your equal

 

"jawn" - is that Philly slang?