Conflict: Being a Victim of Prejudice and Trying to Date WW?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is something a lot of black men in America and quite a few on this forum struggle with as well. I had mentioned this briefly in an earlier post, but things have taken a turn a lot deeper in that domain and I wanted to share my recent experiences with the forum. As those of you who read my earlier post on this may recall, I've been unemployed now for a year and a half since getting my Master's degree last May.


I majored in Communications and have really great work experience that is indeed very vast. I have worked as everything from a writing tutor to a broadcast news reporter on a campus radio station to a newspaper editor and opinion writer to a teaching assistant, etc. Yet, I have experienced so much employer bias and discrimination with my job searching that as a victim of all of this injustice, I am now strongly almost about on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to even thinking about dating white women in America anymore.



Of course however, one of the main problems has been the fact that I'm not a U.S. citizen, came to the U.S. as a student and would therefore need a prospective company or university to consider issuing me work visa sponsorship in order to work in the U.S. That knowledge alone in addition to employer bias and racial discrimination has caused hundreds upon hundreds of my online job applications to be rejected without a second thought. In situations where I may be the most qualified candidate, my online job applications remain stuck for as long as five months until someone else comes around who, even if less qualified, doesn't have my nationality and wouldn't need a work visa. Once that happens, I would check my application status and it would read "Not Selected."



The fact that I mention my nationality as a Central African in most of my cover letters has prevented me for the most part from even being considered for interviews. Nonetheless, on those few occasions where I get called for interviews, I have found myself wrestling with another unforeseen and unexpected obstacle. Realizing that I sound different, most of my interviewers (majority of whom have been white American females, by the way) think it would be an insult to their white American co-workers and candidates if someone like me were to be hired for writing intensive jobs in communications and public relations. They assume English isn't my first language even though I've been speaking English all my life and have taught and tutored so many American students and helped them become better writers. I remember my most recent interviewer saying to me, "Wow, look at you. Here you are applying for a position in writing when English isn't even your first language," despite the fact that I have a resume full of hard work and experience to counter her prejudices.



Consequently, they don't think I qualify to represent their companies. I remember last summer when I called and left a message on the business answering machine of a prospective white American female employer and upon listening to it, she never called me back. I wasn't too surprised. I called her twice and prior to that we had been communicating by e-mail.


These experiences have definitely led me to conclude that this concept of equal opportunity in America for all who work hard is completely false and nothing but a facade and that the claim on paper that universites and companies don't discriminate against people on the basis of national origin and race is far from the truth. There have honestly been times when I have wondered if not identifying my race on some of my online job applications would produce a different effect.


The truth may hurt some people, but it must be spoken. If you're white or black in America, you both live in two, completely different worlds. The former, whether conscious of it or not, has access to a million open doors just by virtue of skin color, while the latter has to continually struggle and work three times as hard to even get anywhere. It doesn't matter how many laws companies may have on paper claiming not to discriminate against minorities. As long as those who make hiring decisions are prejudiced, not much progress will ever be made in this country. I now see why many black people give up on Corporate America. It's avery vicious and unjust side of America.


Interestingly, I've been talking to a few of my African-American male friends about my experiences and they too told me they've had similar experiences at job interviews and that it's nothing new. Many times I wonder why some of these people even waste their time interviewing black candidates if they know very well that deep in their hearts they would rather choose one of their kind all of the time over folks like me.


I guess the most interesting aspect in all of this to me has been the fact that most of those who have denied me employment in the corporate realm have been white American females, especially those in their late 30s to late 40s and perhaps early 50s. It showed me without a doubt that a lot of white women in this country can be just as racist as white men and even worse. Not surprisingly, my interest in thinking about dating white women has significantly cooled off. I no longer look at things the same way. I now perceive things more to the effect of, "As much as these people are discriminating against me and denying me opportunity and treating me so unfairly, does it make sense for me to be going out with one of their kind after everything I've been through?" It's a tough sell to consider dating interracially anymore after having been a frequent victim of prejudice, employer bias and discrimination. Many times, prejudiced white folks in Corporate America think they can get away with treating foreign blacks unfairly because they believe we are less aware of our rights as African Americans. It's a shame.


I don't know if any black males (preferably in the Philadelphia area) have any contacts in the newspaper business. I've been trying to pitch my story about these experiences to some of the major newspapers out here but of course and not surprisingly, most of them have felt very uncomfortable to deal with the subject. As much as I disagree with statememts made by people like the Reverend Jeremiah Wright asking that God should damn America and saying that AIDS was created to kill black people, a lot of the other things he said were true and I can relate to his frustration and anger. The fact of the matter is, most white folks in power in this country still treat black people very unfairly. Yet, when the truth is spoken out, they feel very uncomfortable.


I want to put the story of my experiences out there and would definitely appreciate some help. Anyone who thinks they could be of help to me in that regard should contact me privately at: frank_thomas_19144@yahoo.com

 

Hi Shaft.
This sounds really bad. It is painful enough to be unemployed for so long. It's so easy for those who don't experience discrimination to blame others for dropping out of school and not trying hard enough. Then they perpetuate the problems themselves when they get to the recruiter's position.

I've faced somewhat similar problems trying to get into the UK publishing/media sector, being Greek & having an accent, and in the end I gave up, but I don't believe it was just that English was not my first language. I find that those in the media sector have a sense of power and entitlement once they get in, and a lot of the time jobs are given to people they already know (who unsurprisingly happen to be White British, except if they want to feature a column about multiculturalism - often, not even then!). I've seen interns treated like servants and expected to be grateful for the opportunity to help produce their fabulous publication. And the wages are often so low, that you need an additional source of income to work there! In the end I realised I didn't want to be part of that kind of culture. Now I'm doing a technical job which I don't enjoy that much, but at least I get more respect...

So I think maybe the sector makes it even worse for you if you are likely to face discrimination for your nationality, race and visa status. I hate all this! And I hate the fact that such a situation could make someone generalise about a person category (white women). I mean, there are white women of many kinds and backgrounds who are not media sector recruiters or in the corporate world, and who may not be prejudiced against you, who can love you. But I understand what you're saying because it is true you've encountered enough prejudiced WW to be put off by association. I know I'd be put off if a lot of black men treated me badly. I say do how you feel, and I hope you find work in a journal that publishes the kind of things you want to write!

 

Damn, Shaft, I didnt know you were still dealing with your job situation. Not to say racism isnt a factor, but Im pretty sure that your citizenship status is the cause of your problem. With americans in an uproar about unemployment being grossly understated and especially pissed-off about the number of jobs going overseas, I can see some short-sighted human resources person (black or white) who probably is too lazy and doesnt want to go through the "trouble" of sponsoring you saying to themselves "F*ck that! Im gonna give this job to an american first before I give it to some foreigner." Im not saying its right, just telling you the truth.

 

Re:

Thanks to you all for your responses. I'll write more later. I'm kind of in a rush now. To guy007, I wish I knew of a place in a city like Philadelphia where one could meet European women, but there probably aren't many in this city. Nonetheless, I'm more concerned about getting a job now than dating interracially.

 

Guy007 you hit it on the nail. Brothers should go to Europe or Australia to get the WW of their dreams.

 

Soulthinker



Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 2291

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject:

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Guy007 you hit it on the nail. Brothers should go to Europe or Australia to get the WW of their dreams.


Soulthinker, what do European or Australian women have that American women don't in your opinion? I met the woman of my dreams in Canada which is very similar to America in many ways and very different in others.

 

plenty of places to find european women in philadelphia-come to the center city, there are tons of them.

finding a job in communications? go to Idealist.org and seek a job, plenty of jobs

 

Re:

Trust me Tucker, I've been to idealist.org and so many other countless Web sites you can think of, but I either get no responses or they pass me over because of my nationality and visa status. And to Jellybird, I do agree with you that my student visa status may be the main problem. If it is though, it is still prejudice and discrimination because my qualifications are being ignored and tossed aside just because of my nationality and country of origin, which isn't fair at all. Add all of that to going to interviews and not having the standard "white American accent" and it makes things even worse. How else would one explain someone saying to me during an interview, "Wow, look at you applying for a position in writing when English isn't even your first language." If that's not looking down on someone and an expression of prejudice, then I must not know what is.


As much as I would be glad to find an appropriate outlet to tell my story just to enlighten folks out there about what I've been through, I'm simply leaving all my hope and trust in Almighty God because He alone has the power and ability to make a way where there seems to be none. He has lifted me up through all sorts of very painful experiences of hardship throughout my life in the U.S., so I will just continue to pray and to trust in Him and I know that by His grace, He will make a way for me eventually. I just would be pleased to someday hear that some of these folks who've rejected me so unfairly for jobs found out that I was successful in a way even much bigger than anything they anticipated and that despite everything they tried to do to me, they didn't succeed in breaking down my spirit because God Almighty paved a way for me. I'm just amazed at the lack of humility that is so prevalent in Corporate America.

 

Shaft, if you ever want a teaching position, you should come to my uni, because we probably have more foreign born instructors than american ones. :wink:

 

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What university would that be, Bryant, if I may ask? I've been applying for teaching positions too, but it's hard to get anything beyond a part-time/adjunct teaching position with a Master's degree. They often go with people who have PhDs when it comes to full-time teaching jobs and trust me, PhD programs aren't easy to get into at all. I've tried a couple of times. Also, part-time teachers don't get paid much at all-often $1,000 a credit. For someone who's not a U.S. citizen and is forced to follow strict restrictions when it comes to obtaining employment, that's absolutely impossible to live on. How will you pay your bills, buy food, etc.?

 

part time uni teaching jobs will get usually half time salaries in Philly not adjunct pay per credit.

try Arcadia university outside of philly

 

Re:

I'm at SIU in Carbondale. But of course, you are probably wanting something near Philly. hmmm....that's a good point you make about the foreign born teachers having a PhD. there are an awful lot of foreign born instructors, and now that you mention it, a lot of them do go by Dr. Man, this situation of yours does sound awfully difficult. I hope you find something soon! :wink:

 

Re:

Thanks so much, Bryant. It's very frustrating when you've always been a very hard working fellow to suddenly find yourself unemployed for a year and a half, not because you're not trying, but because folks don't want to give you a chance. Nonetheless, I've been through all sorts of rough times in my life while here in the U.S. and God has always seen me through. The people who deny me employment and feel a sense of power over my situation are mistaken because all promotion, success and employment come from God, not from man, and all power lies in his hands. So I will keep on praying to God faithfully and I know that because His word says that He will never forsake those who are in distress and that He is close to the broken hearted, He has heard my cry and will open up a door for me in due time.

 

I agree with you that your main problems are that you're on a student visa, and perhaps your accent, if it's very strong. Some people (outside Africa) will have problems with that accent (if you also speak fast), simply because they're not used to it. Also they might subconsciously think that your English skills are poor, since they don't understand you. Ridiculous, I know. But I've actually seen it several times (mostly with tourists in Africa. Some will even start talking extremely slow and clear -preferably while exaggerating the movements of the lips as well- to make sure the waiter/hotel staff/seller etc understand what they're saying, when it's obvious to everyone else it's the tourist who doesn't understand.)

I also know what you're saying about interviews. It has happened to probably every immigrant I know, regardless of where they're from. My BF too, many times. They just don't have the courtesy to call back.

Anyway, have you considered applying for jobs in Canada? You can always move back to US later if you want to... I don't know if it's easier there for everyone, but I do know several people (Africans included) who haven't been able to find jobs in Europe or US after studying, but who have gotten jobs in Canada. Usually quite fast as well...
And you probably speak French as well as English. I imagine that's a plus...

 

Re: Reply to Ronja

Ronja, I appreciate your perspective and I am very thankful for your words of encouragement in all of this. Trust me, I've been told by many Americans, both black and white, "You speak English very well." A lot of them tend to mention the fact that a lot of people in the U.S. use a lot of slang when they speak, but I don't. Sure, I may sound different, but it's never been a question of me not being intelligible or not speaking clearly enough. I don't resemble nor am I similar to the African tourists you mentioned in any way. It's just prejudice and discrimination pure and simple. Biased prospective employers being unable to come to grips with the fact that here's an African male who writes very well, has a good resume and is applying for a job in Communications. When they have to make hiring decisions within the privacy of their offices, those demons of prejudice come forth once again. They ask themselves:


"What would my co-workers and mainly white American candidates applying for this position think if I hired a guy like this who sounds nothing like us, pronounces a lot of words differently, etc.? Nah. I'll pass. I can't hire this guy." The irony in all of this is I have so much experience teaching white American students and editing, proofreading and grading their papers and I've seen all sorts of grammatical mistakes. Even many of those employers aren't very well-lettered at all. It's sad that a lot of people delight in stereotyping Africans, especially African men, as unintelligible individuals with extremely heavy accents who speak extremely fast, etc. I don't fit any of those descriptions.

I do think however that in general, White Europeans have a much easier time becoming permanent residents and getting work permits in the U.S. than folks who come from Africa and the Middle East. It's unfortunate people think that way, but prejudiced folks in the U.S. obviously welcome a large influx of Europeans to America with the belief that they would help procreate with White Americans and maintain the white majority population. Why woiuld they want to help Africans when they don't even like most black people in the U.S. already? I can't tell you how many people have been in a position to possibly help me with my situation but have deliberately chosen not to do so just because of my nationality and race. But they are wasting their time because the real power isn't even in their hands.

At 30 years old, I just don't feel like struggling to start immigrating to another country. I just don't want to deal with the hassle and the paper work. I've been through more than enough stress already. I'm not going to kill myself in a racist country like the U.S. If nothing changes, I'd rather go back to my beloved country where I would be more appreciated and there's much less discrimination and I won't be treated like a third class citizen.

 

Re: Reply to Ronja

Shaft, I see your situation seems quite bad.I noticed you dont really want to relocate..but have you considered the UK? It has a very strict equal opportunities laws. When you filling in your application, you dont have to state race or age. Not sure if its like that in the USA.
As you are from central Africa, Im assuming you can speak french. With the growth of the Eu, People who can speak two european languages are highly valued. As the Uk was a major colonizer; there are quite a few africans with an accent working here, especially nigerians, and ghanians.Also there are a lot of poles, who speak poor English and still able to find jobs. Give the UK some consideration 8)

 

Re: Reply to Ronja

That is right.If you live in Germany and next to German you dont speak any other language you hardly have a chance on the job market. To get a high school diploma one needs to speak 2 foreign languages minimum,I learned 3.

 

Re: Reply to Ronja

at my hospital, job applications have an area for "equal opportunity" information, such as age and race. Filling in the appropriate areas is purely optional. However, your potential employer will develop an idea of your race, based on your job interview (unless it's conducted over the phone. Then, they would have to listen to the way you speak, to determine whether or not ur too black for them). Remember, just because you get an interview, does not guarantee you a position. So, keeping with that logic, it's safe to say that racist employers can still weed people out, based on race.

 

Re:

Thanks to each of you for your responses. I've been away from this site for a while. I'm seriously considering leaving the US at this point. It's truly a messed up country and this is sad, but the truth most be spoken-I'm just amazed at the degree of racial hatred in the hearts of many white Americans in this country, especially those in corporate America. Everyone who is fair and has had a chance to take a look at my resume has concluded that it is unfair for me given all my hard work and experience, to be discriminated against in such a fashion.



And although most online applications say that identifying your race is optional, I agree with pettyofficerj that even if folks can't guess what race you are through your application, they would eventually figure it out if you get offered an interview. I've just never felt comfortable hiding my identity. In all honesty, I don't know why so many racist white folk here in America feel bad when people speak out about the injustices that they do. Speaking the truth makes them feel very guilty and uncomfortable because they know just exactly what it is they do. That's why I've had such a hard time getting my article on this published in any major newspapers here in the Philadelphia area.



What I seem to have realized is that a lot of these racist white people in corporate America feel more comfortable discriminating against and carrying out acts of prejudice and injustice against foreign blacks like Africans, because they know many foreign blacks aren't as aware of the resources available to them to defend their rights such as civil rights organizations like the NAACP, etc. So they do all this crap with the firm knowledge and belief that they can get away with it. Another thing I have realized is that if you're a foreign black person in America without a green card and you're not a permanent resident, if you think you can depend on white folks to help you with your visa status and get you a job, you're making a huge mistake. Why would they want to help you when a lot of them already don't like black people in America but feel forced by historical events to "cohabitate" with them in the same country?


The lack of humility in American culture is also a major killer., because it is unfortunately perceived as a weakness. That's why a lot of American women get caught up in that whole "I need a bad boy" crap, because the so-called bad boy, unlike the so-called nice guy, is generally full of arrogance and empty pride and self-centeredness. Women who don't know any better gravitate toward him because of his pride and extravagant personality.



I can't count how many people, most of them white folks of course, at colleges and universities who, upon realizing that they were in positions to help me in my situation, deliberately decided not to do anything and to ignore my pleas in order to get an ego boost. Their greatest threat is an intelligent, well-educated/ivy league type black male with a graduate degree. If you're foreign, they absolutely want you to go back to your country. For someone like me who came to this country believing in the claim of equal opportunity, these experiences have been significant eye-openers. My perspective on America has been forever changed. I'm at the point where I honestly could care less if a white American woman were to express an interest in me-most likely, I won't even consider dating her. Back in the day, I wouldn't have hesitated on such a signal. Nowadays, I don't even want most of them to come near me after everything white women in corporate America have done to me. I really could care less about them.


No matter what happens, I'm not going to give up on my dreams even if I end up in another country. I will use wherever I may end up being as a stepping stone to come back to the US and achieve success in my field and get great national and public recognition so that those who thought they messed up my life by costing me my visa status will be put to shame. I'm a fighter, hard worker and not one to give up easily. I think I'm going to use my own initiative to find some sort of means on the internet and in print to get this story of blatant prejudice, racism and discrimination published.


To the poster who proposed relocating to the UK, if there are Websites that I could check out, I'd be glad to have them.