Chloe Marshall...plus size beauty breaking stereotypes

Also, well-stated...except for this "So I'm not a "real man" for preferring the top model over the bottom one".

What is your top model could very well actually be the bottom one.



It's interesting that we will all go into a rage when racial acceptance/tolerance/embrace comes into play...but let a woman's weight be the issue and everything is fair game. I'd love to hear someone justify a difference between saying whites are more beautiful than blacks or vice versa and thin people are more beautiful than thick people. If we want to make the argument about health, it was once believed that blacks were disease-ridden, filthy slobs among other lovely things.

 

As opposed to the fashion, music, movie, television, magazine industries, high school crowds, college crowds and the others who have already duped the American public into thinking about what is healthy and attractive and what is not?

Respectfully, what is your definition of real as your describe it?

"I believe most men find the Kate Winslets, Marilyn Monroes, ect. to be very attractive women, even with their curves..."

That sounds nice, but I have a greater appreciation for those men who find them attractive because of their curves, among other features.

 

Well, I was directing my question specifically to SharenoH8's controversial statement. I wasn't expecting any critiques for asking a question.

WHAT?? I dont really understand your question. Is this a hypothetical? But let me reply by saying, if I married the slimmer model, then she turned into the bigger model, then for better, or worse, I'll probably stay married to her. But I also have a right to prefer not to want to make a wife out of the bigger model.

Says who? You're assuming you know how "we will all" behave in a particular moment. Where is your proof of this?

No one's doing any bashing here... Simply stating a preference.

Then you should start a new thread.

 

A few things, Bra....

I didn't settle for anything...I'm about the marry the girl of my dreams. Your apparent belief that your dreams (or ideal) are better than mine is a sad display of what you lack as a human being: open-mindedness. That's putting things lightly. If I don't like what you like or vice versa, fine...but don't imply the societal standard as being valid. The white man's leftovers, huh? And what would you be for black women? The context in which you speak is sorely misguided. You emphasize that all this is your opinion, yet you state it as fact. Second or third best would be someone I'm not physically, intellectually, emotionally attracted to more than anyone in the world. Leftovers would be...I could say, your choice in "women", since this discussion is about aesthetics. The truth is, there is no such thing as "leftovers" when it comes to human beings. This resonates quite well with the parallels I drew with race. *If you have a problem with me, handle it with me. DON'T YOU EVER TAKE A SHOT AT HER AGAIN . I don't care how personal things get. We are discussing physical preference in women. We are disagreeing with and arguing against each other's preferences. I would not DARE make such an insidious and despicable direct comment about your significant other and I expect the same. I would appreciate an apology at least for that!*

Not necessary, the messages of this one speak too similarly to the race argument.

Your statement about sensitivity implies insecurity...if anyone is insecure it is you. I'm not trying to wrestle her, I want to be with her...to be with her, part of what I need is to be attracted to her. I would be saying the same thing if I was dating a skinny girl again. Curves are feminine. As I've stated in another forum before, curves exist irrespective of size. Some slim girls have curves, for example. My girl is gorgeous for reasons beyond just her curves, but they are a significant component. Also, some folks are going a bit beyond "stating a preference". Stating a preference would be saying, "Personally, I like thin girls over thick girls," "Big girls don't do it for me...I like em petite..." "You can have 'em, I want mine to be smaller." Not: "It seems we almost always go for the white man's leftovers, the fish they throw back in the lake. It's ok for us to be a little more picky, and or raise the bar on our expectations in the white women we choose, and not just settle for second, or third best. But that's just me. :roll:"

The smiley is cute: hey look, our soapboxes match!

I agree with you and respect that totally. I didn't mean to speak out of context, I simply misunderstood yours.

No problem. The statement just resonated, is all. No harm.

Assuming? Let say that I am. What is the theme of this website? Why does such a theme exist? What spawned it and what feeds it? Assume that I am as close-minded as people assume all of us conservatives are...would you not be a bit upset if I talked about white women the way you speak of big women? If indeed I am assuming, then I will rephrase. Many of us, not only on the website, but in general will go into a rage when racial acceptance, tolerance, and/or embrace comes into play.


I DO NOT want to fight with you. You and I have both misunderstood each other, but have still offended each other with pieces of our arguments. I'm sorry if I attacked you. Love whatever you want, hate whatever you want...but please do not insult my fiancee again.

 

Piinnacle, my point was that you often times hear, big girls, plus-size, women refer to themselves as "real"women, when a more accurate term would be "average" given the statistics in this country of ours. Women who are physically fit are in fact "real" women, notice how I am saying physically fit, not thin or skinny. Some of the most unhealthy women I have met (smokers, ect.) have been thin women. The simple truth is that regardless of body type, if people work at it, they can be physically fit, and if that means a woman is a size 12 (Marilyn Monroe type) rather than a size 2 (Halle Berry type), if she is truly fit and active, she will look great and more importantly have a better chance on average at living a healthy life and not being a burden on society in terms of increased medical and insurance cost to all of us. Another simple truth imo is that few people are ready, willing and able to make such a lifelong commitment to fitness, so much blame lies with the Moniques and the fashion houses that both promote very different but also very unhealthy and irresponsible body images.

 

"It seems we almost always go for the white man's leftovers, the fish they throw back in the lake. It's ok for us to be a little more picky, and or raise the bar on our expectations in the white women we choose, and not just settle for second, or third best. But that's just me."


I won't comment on Pinnacle's girl, if they are happy together, that is all that matters, however, I do agree in principle with what you are saying here. I believe your comments apply to all aspects of life, not just women, it is the way I live my life, nothing but the best!

 

First off, let me say an apology is in order. I did not mean to offend you by insulting your Fiancee. For this, I do apologize to you, and also to her. Yes, it does seem as if we have not quite seen a few particular things eye to eye on this subject, but that is to be expected, in a forum. Yet, if two Black Men can not work out their differences in a civilized manner, then what does that have to say about either of us? I am not going to defend my statements, as there really is no excuse for them, but only to say I felt you were attacking me for preferring a slimmer woman, over a bigger one,

as underlined, and putting my manhood into question, in a rather unprovoked manner. And thus, I put up my defences against your comments which seemed to be squarely directed towards me. Cause, and effect. However, I do now realize this may not actually have been the case, and hope we may be able to render this unfortunate matter resolved.

Congratulations on your marriage to be, and may the two of you be happy together forever.

- Rinnaye

 

HERE HERE!!!

If there were any "Rep Points" to be given out in this particular forum, I'd have sent you a few by now.

Good Post!

 

We have to differentiate plus sized from PLUS SIZED.


I think when most guys say they like "curves" they are referring more to a size 10, 12...maybe 14 at the most...and not necessarily the Monique size 22 type lady that we so often think of as plus sized. I'd also venture to say that most men want a woman that has less muscular definition than they do. For me...I'd say I'm average to above average; I want a girl who works out but she doesn't have to have a six-pack. Some of you more muscular brothas probably don't mind a chick with a "tight butt and washboard stomach." Nothing wrong with that...because I've seen some gorgeous, athletic type women.


I do agree that our culture can be a little too accomodating of poor eating/exercise habits....but that has nothing to do with whether or not a 6'0" 180 lb woman is attractive. The woman competing in the beauty pageant....would probably be a shoo-in if she was 40-60 lbs lighter....but that doesn't mean she isn't attractive. Being "overweight" or "obese" can make certain avenues more difficult to travel....but it doesn't mean that you can look good traveling them.

 

White women and size is always a touchy subject that goes nowhere. I'm like whatever floats your boat. There are plenty of WM out there who are BBW admirers, the bigger the better. So the "white man's leftover" talk is a little harsh. We've got some really cool, fun women on here now (as opposed to the last batch), please don't alienate them.

The goalposts are definitely moving when it come to beauty standards in America, though, as per my previous comment.

 

karma is right...

trying to argue size and beauty is like arguing politics and religion. everyone has their own ideas, so trying to argue it is only going to get everyone involved irritated. to each his own...

and i'm curious...just how bad was the last "batch" of chicks?

 

Professional opinion

I have to put my money's worth in. Thin girls don't always equal healthy. As a medical professional, I have seen many anorexic girls come in through the ER because they are having some sort of medical emergency related to their disease. As far as I am concerned (and I am sure most men will agree with me) respiratory infections, kidney failure, blindness, heart attack, hair loss, muscle atrophy, calloused and bruised fingers, tooth loss, osteoporosis, etc...are not attractive. Most anorexics are very, very thin. If thin = beautiful, then logically, anorexics are gorgeous.

In that case, the converse is true about "fat" or "plus-sized" women. They are ugly, fat and unhealthy. If this is correct, then a majority of gymnasts, softball players, volleyball players, and other female athletes would be unhealthy. As a former softball player (high school and college level) as well as a current softball coach, I am in great shape. I am a size 14-16 depending on the clothing manufacturer. I have 15% body fat and can outrun a lot of thinner girls who look healthy. Jennie Finch is a female softball player and is absolutely stunningly gorgeous. Her BMI wound up being on the high end of the normal scale. Lisa Fernandez - another great softball player - has a BMI of roughly 25-29% depending on which years stats you look at. A BMI of 25-29% is considered obese, but having seen her play in person, that woman is nothing but muscle and looks great.

My case is this: medically, "thin" and "fat" have nothing to do with how healthy you are. They can be indicators, but never determinants. Thin people who eat a diet full of fast, fried, processed and sugar laden foods will most definitely be unhealthier than a bigger person that eats salads, lean protein, vegetables, and complex carbs. A plus sized woman that is toned and healthy is far more beautiful than a thin girl whose body feels like a sponge.

 

Great post Malik

 

Excellent post! Rep added. :smt023

An unhealthy person is unhealthy regardless of what they look like on the outside.

 

As blind as today's standards I wonder if they considered Twiggy plus size?

 

Actually, I was in a women's studies class at one point and our professor had done a lot of research on standards of beauty for a book she was writing. If I can think of it, I'll post the name/book, but her name is escaping me right now.

Anyway, she talked about how the people in control of the photoshoot for Twiggy were using her as an example of how NOT to look. They thought she was too skinny, and were completely shocked to find out that people saw the photos and thought she was the new standard of beauty. That was totally NOT their plan, and they didn't know how to handle it.

Clearly, that's not the case now, but I thought it was interesting that the whole 'super skinny is beautiful' concept started as a tongue-in-cheek joke designed to sell some clothes.

Amazing how influential pop culture is on society sometimes.

 

Wow seriously? You're gonna use atheletes as examples? Athletes are conditioned and exercise reguarly so an Nfl linebacker with a bmi of is probably far more healthy and in shape than a guy who is 10 percent less body fat. But these are the rare exception. People who are that high up on the bmi are prone to a lot of health risks much more so than your average "skinny" person. And seriously when did average or being plain height weight proportionate equal skinny and unhealthy. No matter which you paint it annorexia is no where as big a problem as the obesity problem in this country. I wish people would stop acting if there is nothing wrong with being overweight. By the very definition obesity is wrong. An obese person is flawed and its a correctable flaw so let's stop pretending for the love of God

 

think you missed the point slightly. she was saying that going on bmi alone is NOT a good indicator of weather someone is overweight as athletes can have very low body fat but there bmi puts them in the overweight/obese catagory since bmi is worked out on the weight to height ratio

 

Everyone's flawed.

If you care about other people's flaws, that's pretty much a flaw in itself.

If they're not hurting you, it makes no sense to give a damn about their issues.

 

Chi it does affect me. It affects me everytime my premium goes up on my insurance or everytime I'm on a bus or an airplane and I have sit uncomfortably for hours. Its like saying don't speak out against violence if its not in your neighborhood. Definitely disagree with you my friend.