Cheaters

You do tend to think alot around ethical issues, morals etc.. and I think its mostly very stimulating - I just cant help that sometimes I think its a little missguided at times. I commend you for being open to changing your mind.. I myself is not married to any one particular idea f - or the most part.

One thing I do feel very strongly about is to hold myself accountabe for anything that I do and my integrity is something I will never compromise on.. .that is why I think cheating, even if nobody ever will find out - it will most likely affect you anyways as Loki said - sooner or later....

I think some people just erode morally and I think that once you stepped over that line (whatever it may be), you have done damage to yourself, at the very least.
I think one day, people like that will end up very lonely and sad and might regrett most of their lives...
Unless you are a sociciopath and the likes as they never will feel any remorse.

I must admitt that I do belive that what you sow, you WILL reap, therefore I never feel any need for revenge etc - people will get theirs one way or another.

 

Mmm-hmmm. Certainly is. If you want more than one partner, find someone who doesn't mind. If your partner does mind, break up and move on if you can't stop yourself.

 

If you cannot be sexually active or deeply emotionally connected to ONE person either don't enter a relationship or have an open relationship in which both partners allow one another to be intimate with other people.If it's a mutual agreement it's not cheating.Playing the loyal mate and acting like there's only them for you is lying,acting and sooner or later will come out.Most lies do.

 

I've come to a compromise. I think cheating is disrespectful but not immoral.

 

Afro, its a free country and you can decide to live your life however you see fit. Here is a commonly held definition of immoral;
im?mor?al

–adjective 1. violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.









IMO cheating on someone, deceiving them when in a mutually agreed upon monogamous relationship fits this definition to the letter. My hope for you is that you will continue to evaluate/revise your thinking on the matter, good luck to you.

 

I would generally agree that it is disrespectful not sure about morally because it depends where your moral standpoint is from I.e. Upbringing, religion,culture, socitial norms etc..

However I have had direct experience of a cheater.

I met this guy at uni in my first year, he was absolutely gorgeous, intelligent etc.. and he happened to be nigerian. I was flattered when he asked me out and we dated for a while. He began to withdraw from me about three weeks into the relationship I was not sure what was wrong and eventually asked him jokily if he was in another relationship.

He told me he was his wife was back in Nigeria and he was sorry.

Ok up until that point his wife knew nothing, neither did I. After this confession I felt ashamed hurt and also concerned about his wife. Now im sure his wife would never find out, however it still hurt me and also made me much more wary of dating a nigerian man again (obviously I understand that not everyone is like this just a few men).

Therefore I would definatley say he was disrespectful to me, his wife and did end up hurting others.

And when we all do something wrong often we feel a prick of conscience and guilt ( we should not feel this emotion if the action was moral surely?) Let me know what you think sorry its so long winded

 

Cheating is straight wrong, period. It's sure as hell more fucked up cheating in a marriage. "For better or for worse" ain't just bullshit hype.

 

Totally agree Brotha, but I guess if someone doesn't care about their SO bringing home a potentially deadly STD to them and otherwise remain in ignorant bliss - then they can condone that kind of behaviour.

 

Afro, I see what you are saying, but I think in the end, your arguement is flawed for the simple reasons Loki mentioned.

I see the levels of Grey, even though you have or do step out on your wife, you may still love & respect her all the same. But a marriage is not just based on the fact that you don't cheat. It's about those things Loki mentioned; character, honor, integrity, and more. As it is defined today, marriage is a monogamy based institution, unless stipulated by both consenting parties. Therefore, cheating--or whatever you may call it, is automatically disrespectful to not only the 'cheatee,' but the 'cheator' also.

You are thinking to narrow, logical, black and white. It's in your heart you'll find the answer. Anything that feels deceptive; sneaky, or plain out wrong, etc., usually is. And if you don't feel something like this when you do or have considered cheating, I would advise you to put yourself in the other persons shoes, take deeper look at yourself, and or move on to a relationship with a like-minded person.

Book touched on something my father used to say to me in so many words: Character...is doing things--usually right things, when no one is looking. I consider it one of the single most important themes I live my life by.

 

lippy is curious about something...do any of you ever look at craigslist? i am constantly amazed at how many married people are seeking "no strings" sex with either opposite or same sex partners...the number of men looking for men both black and white is crazy and it seems to be growing...lots of on the DL or trying for the first time...married and curious about being with another man...i wonder if men turn to men for a quickie in fear of women getting too involved wanting a relationship...it always makes me wonder about men because i would bet a million dollars these are the same men that with friends and family are homophobic...some are very bold putting up their pictures too...i get the impression that their wives never suspect anything or would never check CL...but i could pick my man's body out of a lineup without his face...and then they take pictures at home...hmmmm, isn't that our couch??:smt043

 

This is the main flaw in the argument that cheating is immoral or harmful and I've explained why. This is the kind of abstract thinking that makes us feel "sorry" for the dead when the dead don't know or care that they are deceased. To feel bad for someone who is being cheated on but does not realize it is not true sympathy, you are projecting your own emotions and your own informed perspective on to someone who isn't experiencing distress .

I'll say it again, it is meaningless to say "if it were me, I wouldn't want to be cheated on and not told about it" because if you did not know or suspect that you were being cheated on, you wouldn't be affected by it. Your preference to have a monogamous partner is satisfied so long as you believe you have a monogamous partner.

This isn't the best analogy because it doesn't involve an explict agreement between two parties but let's say that the man standing next to you while you wait for the bus has an unzipped fly. If this man has no idea that his fly is unzipped, that information can not cause him distress (ie. embarassment). You would not be doing this man a favor to tell him that his fly is unzipped, even if he may appreciate your sharing that information. While he may or may not approve of your telling him, it wouldn't alleviate suffering (since what he does not know cannot hurt him) and it wouldn't make him happy (while he may approve, zipping up his fly won't make him any happier than he was before when he assumed his fly was zipped up). What exists to us is what we consciously experience so if something doesn't cause suffering or deprive someone of pleasure, I see no reason why it should be considered immoral.

I do think that cheating is disrespectful, in the same vein that promising your dying friend you'll scatter his ashes in your backyard and not doing so is disrespectful but not harmful to him.

 

I think it counts more when nobody is NOT watching - that is when somebodys true integrity shows... thats when you show your backbone.
Someone that only do good stuff if somebody watches is still a low person.
We call then "eye-servants" in Sweden, people who uses the fact that nobody is watch and do the bad stuff then, and bevahe good only if someone is watching.

The flaw with your analgy is that somebody that is dead, will remain dead and never find out - If you cheat, there is ALWAYS a risk that the truth will come out, unless that person you cheated on is dead.

At the end of the day, I think a good barometer of moral behavior - when nobody is watching etc is:
Can you tell someody of what you did with pride, will they react positively to what you just shared?

If you think not, then you know what you did only sits well with you IF nobody knows..... can you live like that?
If you can only do "the right thing" only when people will know... well the you are morally corrupt and either you will eventually feel really crappy about it. If you dont, there are psycological labels for that.

btw - with "you" I dont mean you, Afrolove but you as in anyone.

 

I don´t think there is a general answer.. every situation is different..

If we talk about a new relationship (just a few years) and your sexual wishes are in a "normal frame"- I would say it is wrong. No matter, if your partner finds it out or not.

If we talk about a long time relationship, I think it can happen- and I am not sure, if it´s smart to tell your partner about this ONS- too much would be destroyed.

If we talk about an abnormal sexual practice, you cannot share with your partner, but it makes you unhappy not to live it out- I think it´s not to prevent- although you love your partner.

Sexuality is just one facette in a relationship.. and I am not sure, if it´s not sometimes overvalued. The lust and passion for the same partner over decades is very difficult to keep.

 

Well let's go logical then...the bottom line is the fact that your married, you can't get away from that, like you can't get away from air, unless you die/divorce. So keeping that in mind, it doesn't matter who sees you cheat, or who doesn't see you cheat, nothing that you can say or do justify cheating in the eyes of marriage, nothing can trump the institute of marriage, & let's not forget the fact that marriage is rooted in religious belief. I am not a big religious person so I can't speak on it extensively, but I do believe it's a sin to step out on one's wife (assuming your talking about cheating within marriage).

How can you say with certainty that not scattering your friends ashes would cause some type of unrest. Unless you have been dead and back again, and a.) know that there is no existence beyond life (so you can't disrespect someone that's not living, even though you can still disrespect there memory), or b.) know there is existence after life in some way, shape, fashion, or form, but the dead don't care.

I as much as you Afro, would not mind coming up with circumstantial justification for cheating, but I just don't see it...

 

Time is linear, tho. The man might prefer not to know that his fly was unzipped, but eventually there's a good chance he'll find out. Obviously, for instance, when he takes his pants off at night, or when he goes to the bathroom later, and finds out. Certainly he'd rather be told by the guy on the bus stop than stop and think later of the dozens of people he saw who didn't tell them.

Have you thought about the implications of your theory outside of cheating? Because, by your argument, it's not immoral to steal, so long as no one catches you.

The problem is that infidelity has side effects, and the clearest one you hinted at in the beginning: it places an artificial distance in an intimate relationship that both parties are not aware of. One is being completely open, and trying to get closer emotionally. By lying, the other is placing space and distance between the two, while pretending to be just as close. There is a decided difference between telling someone all about your day, for instance, and telling them an elaborate lie.

In some relationships, cheating is the lesser of two bads. In some situations, it's the more moral option. That doesn't make it moral.

 

^^

:smt045

 

You are correct Fresh, from a Christian religious perspective 'thou shalt not commit adultery' is #7 on the list of the Big Ten, unless you are Catholic in which case it's #6. Condemnation of adultery is not solely a Christianity based practice though; Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism also discourage adultery. Basically any culture that holds marriage as a sacred act, and believes monogamy is the ideal standard, will likely consider adultery a sin... which covers pretty much every major world religion except Satanism (if you happen to consider that a religion). Religious viewpoints on the subject have historically centered around the man’s rights with regard to an adulterous wife, however that street runs both ways. I’m not a fan of double-standards in anything.

While I personally believe it to be morally wrong, that's based upon not only my religious upbringing, but also on the fact that as several other's have stated, it's a betrayal of trust. Whether the other party is aware or not, it's a betrayal. I don’t like to use the term entitled, but if I were in a committed relationship I do think that who else he’s screwing is information I should have, and that goes both ways. Not to mention, there is likely something seriously amiss in the relationship if one party begins questioning the morality of cheating, merely asking the question of yourself suggests you know it’s not right. After all if you truly don’t believe it to be morally wrong, why would you waste time debating the matter in the first place?

Are there people who would prefer not to know, sure there are. Some people prefer to live in blissful ignorance, rather than accept the cold, hard truth; while others don't care how bad it is, they just want you to be honest with them. Red pill vs. blue pill. There will always be people who prefer to believe the world is all sunshine, roses, and kitty cats, while others will prefer reality no matter the cost. Since your question seems to center primarily around whether it's morally wrong only if the other party finds out, perhaps the question you should ask of people is whether they would want to know or not? As for me, I’d want to know, and chances are I would find out at some point and in that case sooner is most definitely better than later. The longer I spent unaware, the greater the reaction when I did find out. Best to get it out of the way early on.

 

^^

oh my, +1.

 

I personally can't stand the 'yes, but what IF someone does this and what IF someone does that.'
I've given my personal opinion on this subject plenty of times now so I'm just going to keep it short. Yes, cheating is wrong. There's no excuses, no exceptions and no ifs and buts.

 

cheating is wrong and there is nothing worse than a coward cheat who doesn't tell their other partner and risks infecting them with stds etc.