BM/WW IR: Conservative Republican vs. Liberal White Women

It helped get him into college....but the man struggled to find a good job despite having a Yale Law Degree and graduating near the top of his class. A degree isn't worth much if no one will hire you. Remember too that...even if an employer hires you because of Affirmative action or quotas...they (certainly not back in the day) didn't have to promote you. All they needed was a certain number of Negroes to fill spots. Affirmative action done right can be a positive program....but many companies skirted the system and kept highly qualified blacks from advancing in the company. (Obviously things have gotten a little better...but I'm speaking about the way things were years ago)

Racism is indeed prevalent in various institutions in our nation. However classism is just as much a problem. A poor white kid from a trailer park...that is the only member of his family to graduate from HIGH SCHOOL vs. a black kid from the suburbs that has two college educated parents....lets say the white kid outscores the black by a mere 10 points on the SAT and both students have similar credentials..extracurricular activities..etc...who gets in Random State School; this scenario happens more than some think....its part of the reason why so many poorer whites (rightly or wrongly) vote Republican. I'm not defending them....just showing the flip side. I have no problem with Affirmative action...and Clarence Thomas doesn't either.....but he feels it should benefit the poor instead of just benefitting blacks/Latinos....and I can't say I disagree. If it were geared toward those lower on the socio-economic scale...it would benefit far more people and have a stronger impact. A poor black kid from Cabrini Green in Chicago or the 5th Ward in Houston probably goes to inferior schools and may not have the strongest academic background....but they may have potential...and affirmative action can help. A black kid from a well to do family....that attends a top flight school....has well educated parents...and manages to score below the average of Latino students that barely speaks English makes no sense....this happens much more than people would like to think.


We have to separate the categories of Affirmative action....there are so many colleges and universities that a black student can find their way...on the other hand...there are relatively few college coaching jobs by comparison. That is going to be harder to change than say in the NFL because colleges have to deal with boosters and alumni who may not want to see a black man as the head coach. Until we have more black boosters, alumni, athletic directors and college presidents....its going to be an uphill road.


No one is underestimating the impact the older generation..HAD. It's just that now...unfortunately...many of them have become everything they used to despise. Think back to the 60's when those young civil rights leaders were out in the streets ignoring their parents and fighting for their rights. The local preachers and elders used to discourage their outrage but that generation fought anyway. Now the generation that was on the battlefield...has become like the old time preacher.....they are resistant to change and progress. The game has changed...the young generation knows how to win in this new game. The old generation wants to play the old game because that was how they succeeded. The old generation will have to step aside eventually...the question is whether or not they will do it respectfully.....or will the young generation have to forcefully take the reins.

 

You know, both of you guys jellybird and ChosenOne make excellent points its hard to disagree with either one of you.

But here's make or break. Racism in undeniably an integral part of America as an institution, unit and as a nation. It always has been and continues to be - hopefully, it'd change with time. But as ChosenOne eloquently pointed out, classism is just as bad - even worse because it consumes even more people regardless of race. It has been consistently proven by financial outlets such as Fortune and Forbes that those with a PhD earn about $30,000 more than those with a simple Bachelor's Degree. Getting into college to get any degree costs a lot of money, let alone a PHD. And the truth be told, most American families struggle with college tuition. Only 25% of American adults have a HE degree.

The problem starts from the beginning. Many poor blacks and whites go to inferior schools with poorly paid teachers who don't give a shit, have inferior learning tools and are in a less than suitable learning environment so it stands to reason that they do less well on average than those from more profitable circumstances. Of course many (if not most) colleges demand scholastic standards of achievement so they aren't going to take just anything simply to fill a quota. Despite what most people think, most black beneficiaries of affirmative action are middle class black students and Africans because they are the ones that the colleges take into consideration in the first place.

And even when they get in, many of them drop out because they cannot keep up with the standards the school demands. It is also noteworthy that there are other factors taken into consideration when applying for a place at a college. So because many of the people who get into college are the ones who can pay for it, they go on to get better, well paid jobs than those who don't and so it's a downward spiral that continues to formulate itself and hurts the less fortunate, white and black.

Now i am not naive enough to suggest institutional racism doesn't exist no more. It does. But the most important thing will be cutting through the unjustifiable reins of class segregation and dismantling it because i believe a lot of it will alleviate the race problem.

 

Exactly my point about C Thomas...without aff. action, he doesnt even get into school so that he can go on to be a Supreme Court Judge.

The example about the poor white kid and the suburban black kid is a little far fetched. Why? Because everyone knows that in 90% of the time educational performance has a positive relationship with a family's income. (I know your not going to agrue that fact? And were scores of the kids in the upper or lower percentile?)

And why are you limiting the scope of aff. action. There is a limited number of everything. Spots in universities, jobs in law firms, ad firms, marketing firms, etc. And there are also a limited number jobs in high school, college, and professional football. And college football is the perfect snapshot because the potential pool starts out pretty even - 50/50. But the numbers suggest that the white athletes are smarter and better qualified than black athletes at a 3-to-1 ratio to be asst. coaches. And then out of those assisants, there are only 6 blacks qualified to be head coaches.

Alumni and boosters dont work for or "officially" represent the university. The president does and the board of directors do! But because the white alumni and boosters with the money "say" I dont want a black coach thats reason enough? Thats a weak-ass excuse! Dont you think the same system that weeds out the black candidates for head coaching jobs is the same system that prevents minorities for becoming college presidents and athletic directors.

And Im not saying the because of racism blacks should just become janitors and deal with it. But lets not put blinders on and refuse to see the racism that exists in America. Its there and because of it aff. action does have a place in the system. Not to give Joe Smith a supervisor job when all he's done is put chees on a Whooper. But so that qualified minority candidates have an opportunity.

And I dont care if the minority candidate is rich or poor. Poor people first would like to have the same education opportunities that everyone else has. I guarantee that if you improve the quality of the public schools you will see blacks and minorities do better in school and then that will a whole different set of issues.

And you cant say anything critical about the older generation vs. the young generation because the young generation doesnt vote. And until they do, they have no voice.

 

Dang, Jellybird switched to "italics" on that ass. :lol:

Once a man changes font style it's getting serious. Watch your back Chosen. LoL

 

My apologies. I hit the wrong key and didnt know how to switch it back. lol

If it appears that Im "yelling", Im not. lol

 

Those white conservatives never mention the alumni of those universities and athletes. They use the excuse of Blacks being "unqualified". Thomas is the best example of unqualified jurist. Leon Higginbotham,a Republican who is best qualified was never chosen. Plus,he know what time it was. It is a shame that the GOP picks only house slaves for high positions. Oh I forgot Condi Rice aka Dr.Dirty who was a aquaintance of one of the four girls who was killed in that church bombing in 63 did not join her peers in the civil rights protest. She instead lived in a type of fantasy world built by her father. It it were not for Affirmative Action and the civil right protesters she would never been in that high position.

 

He may or may not have gotten into YALE but the real problem is that if employer's aren't willing to either hire or promote you...you are going to be like the hamster....running on the wheel to nowhere.


As for the example of poor white kid vs. rich black kid being far fetched....is actually isn't:

Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 130 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 17 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of more than $100,000.


http://www.jbhe.com/features/53_SAT.html


It's true that wealthy whites score better than poor whites and the same is true for blacks....but I'm saying that the wealthy blacks (even those at good schools) are still lagging behind whites that aren't particularly affluent/well off.

More blacks should get an opportunity when it comes to head coaching...AA plus mandates like the NFL's Rooney Rule would help college football quite a bit. What hurts is that there are blacks that get opportunities but they don't get more than one. Black coaches have to either win a boatload of games or turn around an anemic program overnight (Ty Willingham at Stanford) in order to get second opportunities. It's sad when men like George O'Leary and Mike Price get multiple chances...while qualified black assistants/coordinators are lucky if they get one shot.

I agree that it is a WEAK ASS EXCUSE (alumni and boosters sticking their nose where it doesn't belong)...but its a fact of life. Unless your athletic program is one of the big Kahuna's like U of Texas or Michigan....it's going to be difficult to improve your facilities to the point where you can compete with the big dogs. You will likely rely on generous alumni and they can often have a big say in what happens.....it's not right...but it happens at some schools.


I AM CERTAINLY A PROPONENT OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.....BUT WITH ANYTHING THERE ARE FLAWS.... THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED. EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO TRY AND UNDERCUT THE SYSTEM....EVEN WHEN THEY HIRE BLACKS....MANY COMPANIES HAVE NO PROBLEM KEEPING THEM IN LOWER LEVEL POSITIONS AND INHIBITING THEIR ADVANCEMENT. RACISM EXISTS...NO ONE IS DENYING THAT...IT'S THAT SAME RACISM THAT ALLOWS EMPLOYERS TO TRAP QUALIFIED MINORITIES IN ENTRY LEVEL TYPE POSITIONS.


I also agree...we need to improve our schools. Our children will be much better off when they can receive the best possible instruction.


Older generations of Americans have always voted more than their children....that was true even of the Baby Boomers. The 'Greatest Generation' thought 'Boomers were impish and naive...and that's probably not much different than how 'Boomers view Generation X to some extent...but moreso..Generation Y. The elder statesmen will have to give up their seat...its just a matter of when and how. That's not disrespect...that's truth.

Of course there are 80 million Boomers vs. 20 million Y'ers..so I don't think they will be "out of commision" for quite some time.

 

You hit it on the head Chosen. People like Connerly,McWhorter,and the Thernstroms give all sorts of excuses on why Blacks can't have Affirmative Action. The former two no doubt benefited from those programs yet want to deny it to future African-Americans saying that racism is a thing of the past. I hope the young generation of Blacks should not be guilt tripped by such racism scum.

 

I couldn't date a conservative chick, sorry. That's like if a woman smoked or liked shitty music. Can't co-sign that one. Maybe a one-night stand if she was hot and didn't talk.

 

I'm like karma....even if she was gorgeous, I don't think I could tolerate kicking it at length with somebody who was on some neocon, Reagan-nostalgia, stone-the-homos, bomb-all-arabs 'tude.. dealt with enough of that in high school.. pass...

 

It's funny because i dated a chick from Wyoming who was exactly like that.

 

Wyoming, no wonder.

 

:lol: :lol: What does that mean?

Well, to be honest, i did think that way when i first met her. Here's a pic of her - she's the one with the glasses standing next to me -http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a270/AKeysLuvaBoy/General/l_4ff0e8d0168017b7b886068395c30982.jpg

I was initially skeptical about asking her out because she did say she was from Wyoming and was a red-as-blood conservative Republican who supported the "war on terror" and everything. So i was thinking, "There ain't no black people in Wyoming so i doubt she'd even consider me". But suprisingly, i saw her in the gym one day and asked her out ........ and she said yes.

So you see, misconceptions can be startling.

 

Adorable pic, LaydeezmanCris.

 

Wow she's gorgeous.

 

I will just have to say that I am somewhat conservative and I have dated a few black men. I will have to say that I am more concerned with religious differences than political ones. I think sometimes all people get stereo-typed when the assumptions are not correct. I am intelligent, nice, successful, attractive, and probably stereo-typed-that is why I am going to give the internet thing a try!

 

Well shy and sweet are both attractive qualities! Welcome.

 

Thanks very much!

 

quite a nice spread you got around ya

:wink:

 

Welcome to the site S&S. Hope to hear more from you.