BM/BW vs. BM/WW

Ok family, I've got a talking point that may have been discussed already, but I'm too damn lazy to look for it, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive.

Q: How is a BM who will only date BW any different than a BM who will only date WW?

...and the same for WW who only date WM vs WW who only date BM<- Ok, I don't really care about this one, that's my personal double-standard

(Excluding those head-cases who justify their love for WW by hating BW - there are other bullsh!t threads for that. Only level-headed dialogue accepted.)

*Disclaimer: There is no right or wrong answer and I'm not promoting any one particular viewpoint. Just candid dialogue.

 

It's a good question Intrigue. Actually, me and my mom would have discussions about this very frequently. We would always debate about whether or not it was wrong for somebody to exclusively date a ww, compared to black individuals who exclusively date amongst themselves. She said, it's perfectly okay for black people to date exclusively amongst themselves, but not okay for black men to date white women exclusively, because it's a form of self-hate. We would debate on and on about this, but there was no convincing her of the obvious double standard. I don't think some people really understand, or comprehend the things they say about race. A lot of what people say, is emotion based, and not logic based AT ALL. Logically, she would have to understand what she was saying didn't make any kind of sense right? But when it comes to a lot of issues concerning dating outside of one's race, logic goes right out the window. In her mind, because she is a black woman, she will never understand how a black man could choose to date exclusively outside his race, and shun black women altogether. This is all based on emotion. So basically, she couldn't see the obvious double standard, because her emotions wouldn't allow her to. Either that, or she just didn't want to. It's as plain as day for people to see that there is no difference between choosing to date exclusively inside your race, or outside, but emotions tend to get in the way, and people are no longer able to see the obvious. Just my opinion.

 

Good topic, intrigue!!

I will begin by saying that race is, IMO, at best an indicator of culture. So - if you see a black man/woman in America, there is some implied culture, social understanding, history, etc...The same for any person of any race. And, more-or-less, this is true. Otherwise there wouldn't be the "growing up/acting white/black debate that shows up from time to time". Of course - you can never say all white people have the same experience or that all black people do - but it's probably the best indicator out there.

By exclusively dating a black man, when you're white - you are choosing to ALWAYS date someone with a (probably) different background to you. A different history, etc...Whereas if a WW only dated WM - there's some shared history...a kind of common understanding, if you will...

I think that's the difference. And it's the same for any cross-cultural preference. You're choosing to always date someone with a different "world" to you. Which, of course, is fine - but I think it's hard for a lot of people to fully grasp.

Hopefully that made some sense!

 

I agree.

 

I personally feel a little odd about a man who says he will only date WW, its ok to have a preference for WW, but when some are so negative like on some of the other threads its hard to understand

Sometimes the reasons given are a little off to me, things need to be taken by a case by case basis, if that particular black woman has attitude (Don't Date Her)

I have a preference for black men, but still consider and date white men, some aren't my cup of tea, some are.

To not even consider dating someone of my own colour would imply i find nothing attractive about white men, as FEHG said in that instance you are usually getting someone with similar life exsperiences, to me that is attractive sometimes.

So basically i do think its ok for all to have there preferences BUT! to rule out an entire race especially you own, feels a little off to me.

Just my opinion.

 

I think relationships are no ones business but those involved. I dont really have an opinion on what is bad or what is acceptable. Besides, race doesnt even exist. I get a perverse pleasure when I see people unable to distinguish whos white (because it doesnt exist).

 

Similar culture assumes a lot of things....DH and I have talked about how many of her classmates are relatively spoiled rich kids from the suburbs while she is from Appalachia..which has a lot more in common with an urban ghetto than a ritzy cul-de-sac.

A wealthy white girl would have more in common with Puff Daddy's son's than with some poor white dude from Alabama.

 

Bryant, thanks for that thoughtful response...as always from you. Your conversation with your mother is typical of older generations. Naturally, they experienced far more racial hardships than our generation, so I don't believe they can relate to on-going mixing of races and cultures of today.

 

Great input and I do see your point. However, that begs another question (perhaps a separate thread):

Are WW/BM relationships a subculture of a minority culture with its own set of issues, derived from the trials of the AA community?

The reason why I say AA community is because it's likely the ww would experience hardships more akin to the trials of a black American.

 

Oh totally - I agree. As I think I stated (or at least alluded to) it's an indicator at best...Pick any random black guy off the street and a random white girl - the chances of them having any type of similar background is, I would assume, less than if you did the same test between a WW and WM.

From my own personal experience, I always feel comfortable in a room with a bunch of people with a similar background to me (regardless of their race) than I would with a group of people disimilar to me. Further to that, I understand and could mix with upper or lower class white people because I understand how it works more than I would with a group of black people (or other minority)...simply because you know best what it is that you're used to.

But, these are still generalisations and my own personal feelings on the subject. Obviously I am comfortable with a mixed crowd or else i wouldn't date BM...I just "get" a white crowd a bit better. (FYI - black for me = african)

Rich ww and puff dady's son? compared to a rich ww and poor wm? Hmm. I don't know. Perhaps. There would be, however, more in common between a rich WW and poor wm than a rich ww and poor bm. So, perhaps that's the point?

Well, not living in America, I can't say about the AA community. But, IMO here in Aus, I would say that BM/WW relationships are a subculture, period. They are a subculture of both the african an general community, but since the african community is so small, it really just becomes a small subset of regular culture.

I think the issues are distinct, because there is no other paring like and African/ww relationship.

I don't know any AA men here, although I'm sure there are some. In this instance, I would say that AA men would 99% assimilate with "white" culture, because there is no AA community for them to associate with...so, those relationships would just be normal, although with different colours...And, vastly different to a WW/African man relationship.

 

I just thought of another point, also...

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable acknowledging that there IS a difference between the "white experience" and "black experience" IN GENERAL (of course - these are generalisations - I don't need to keep pointing this out)....

And like to revert to the point that there is no race...or that race is a social construct.

Yes - it is a social construct that exists for good or bad.
And that is proven by the fact that we are on a website - WWBM...if there was no race, then there wouldn't be this website.

And the fact that we are having conversations all the time about white women and the black community and all those things that we talk about as "issues" just reiterates the fact that a WW/BM relationship is different to a WW/WM relationship...I can't imagine a WW/WM relationship discussing many of the things on here that we discuss in relation to race - well, what would the discussion be????

So the very fact that we're here shows there's a difference, and then if you choose to exclusively date outside of your race, then (as I stated previously) you're choosing to always put yourself in a different world.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong. I'm just throwing the idea out there. Debate people!

 

I agree to some extent, but I never really discuss "race relations" with a boyfriend. Only really when he told me his mum would hate me because I'm white. That's about it. But yeah, I agree with ChosenOne too, infact I agree with everyone here.

 

I agree with you also.
I don't think that it has to make a difference, but I think there is a difference, more often than not.

 

Yep. I think it's other people that tend to make it different too though. People tend to ask you questions or some people express their disgust etc...
But yeah, there is a difference.

 

You know exactly how many times my husband has ever called me white or referred to me being of a different ethnicity, exactly zero.

I also agree with choosenone on the social silimilarities. With my first husband I mentioned something about him hanging out with a particular black guy, he told me I had more in common with them than he did.

 

What we discuss here is driven by the website. If I go on a date, what ethnicity he is doesnt determine our topics of discussion. What topics I discuss with my black girlfriends is exactly the same topics I discuss with my other girls.

There are issues particular to a black man white woman pairing, but they are so few as compared with the what goes on with any opposite sex pairing.

One of the similarities I have noticed, here some guys complain a lot about not having "access" to the best white women. At masjid, the white converts complain about not having "access" to the best muslimahs from immigrant fathers. Sometimes even the words are exacly the same.

 

Yes...so, for you the generalisation is not accurate. Fine.
I never said it would be - only that it's probably the reason why people get more funny about someone exlusively dating outside their race than they do dating exclusively within their race.

And, as said before, BM here (for me) are African - so for you (in america) there is a much bigger liklihood that the guy will be of a similar background, etc....

Maybe also it's for the simple fact that is such a small minority.
Any activity which is the case for the majority of people is unlikely to cause any reaction - as it's the status quo...anything else causes discussion.

 

I don't know that a bm who will only date bw is really any different than a bm who will only date ww. I think it depends on where that comes from for him. For some they have all sorts of agendas. For some it's simply a matter of attraction and what they gravitate towards.

Obviously there can be very different consequences that come with either choice.

As far as common backgrounds....I have dated mostly American black men, but no matter, whoever I have been with had some common ground and often similar backgrounds: core values, education, travel/living in different areas, exposure to various lifestyles, interests, outlook, etc. I'm someone who has experienced a great deal in life and can relate to all sorts of different people and I tend to meet others who do as well.

I have said before - I think often times it's more about the difference (or similarities) in socio-economic class than about race. It's interesting...not long ago I was speaking with a bm who is very successful and has accomplished quite a bit in life. He was talking about that he had some difficulty in a previous relationship because the woman he was with (ww) hadn't experienced they type of lifestyle he has. She didn't do well with much of what comes with that and ultimately it just didn't work out. I think sometimes the assumption is that it's the ww who has the "better"/more privileged background.

"Are WW/BM relationships a subculture of a minority culture with its own set of issues, derived from the trials of the AA community?

The reason why I say AA community is because it's likely the ww would experience hardships more akin to the trials of a black American."

Which trials are you speaking of? (Just want to make sure I'm clear about the question before responding to this)

 

Good question K. I'm referring to the trials that Black Americans face due to their race...the whole spectrum.

In my mind, the trials that a ww would face due to her decision to couple with a bm and/or have mixed children would subject her to similar hardships due to dissaffection from the white community as well as being snubbed by black folk.

Also, I definitely agree with you on the socio-economic aspect. That's becoming more true as cultures continue to mix and economics play a bigger factor. I've noticed it myself as I've grown and advanced.

 

I imagine that white women who have such an interest want access to the "best" black men.

Every coin has . . .