black hatred on the reservation (blacks kicked out the tribe

i posted a topic on a native american messageboard asking why the cherokee felt the need to kick the black people out of the cherokee nation and i got various responses...many of the responses i got were very hateful but some actually did make sense and i could kind of see thier side of things although i think there are two sides to this story.....i was kind of taken aback by the racism i was met with on the board though.. ...i do realize that this doesnt represent all natives and a few of them actually spoke agaisnt some of the racist attacks agaisnt blacks. anyway here's the topic if you want to read it.


http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?...n=C17D826C-C29B-4BD2-B61BD4085687A44C15793797

 

I did not read to whole thing because I don't know if I have Native blood and if I did have it, I could care less because I'm black first. End of story.

I did like this post however:

"You know the only person who needs to apologize is her. I am sorry but she decided to pick on the wrong person. True others could have educated her, but it didn't appear to me she was going to listen anyhow. It appeared that she KNEW what she was talking about and wanted her points justified. The points she was making were not going to get justified in this group. That is just the way it is."

I've seen this too many times over here from folks who'll join only to push there own agendas hidden or otherwise.
Which makes me wonder why we are here if not for black men white women....

 

you know what? anyone with any sense can see when i went to the forum i was simply asking a question because i WANTED to be filled in on some details that i may not have known...i didnt come at anyone sideways until they came at ME sideways with all the racist remarks......what really angered me were many of the racist responses i got...but its ironic you would see what i posted as being in the wrong yet completely skip over the other crap that was stated when i was attacked..... plus i have just as much of a reason to comment on THAT forum as the next man since there is native ancestry in my family...who are you to quesiton my intent on a forum that pertains to me????? really why even question it period rather i was part native or straight form africa???? what's your point?

i have absolutely no problem when whites or native americans come to black voices as they DO come ALL the time......so why should they there be a problem with blacks going to native forums or reading them...that's how we LEARN.

and really im not quite sure about what this comment below is suppose to mean....can you be more specific????

"Which makes me wonder why we are here if not for black men white women...."

 

I mean I wonder why.
Like I said.

 

why what????

 

are you questioning the reason for the post or why im at his forum???

anyway, i edited my first post to you so you may want to read back through some of it.

 

You can post whatever you want - just like every other person here.
I have no beef with anyone who is here based on the name of this site or those who have come here to learn.

Again you do whatever you want to do but the post I quoted said it all.

I appreciate you however.

Now before this post - your post by the way- goes any further of topic, I'm not your problem here.

Okay?

 

@Ebony...you're right...everybody comes on Black sites and oftentimes outnumber them. And at gatherings, Blacks are always welcoming to nonblacks but it's not the same in reverse.

 

LOL....its funny but one of those guys (his name is Karonhiahón:tsi ) that was saying all that prejudice stuff about black people invited me to join his group yesterday and i was thinking to myself "what tha fuck? i thought you hated black people, especially me" because he tried to claw my head off in the discussion...lol :lol: ...I didnt tell him any of that though....., i simply thanked him for inviting me to the group and figured maybe he isnt as hateful as i thought..... ...but then today he sends me this message trying to hit on me.

"Dont take this in a bad way , but you are extremely Pretty"

i'm like, so THAT'S what you were leading up to when you sent me the group invite...lmao!....that was random but it was a trip...
:lol:

i didnt know what to make of all of that because i REALLY despised the things that he was saying but then he turns around and does this....

i dont know rather to be nice or bite his head off...lol

now this makes it tough for me to come down on his ass like i REALLY wanted to in the discussion. it's why i am very careful about making frineds over the messageboard because you dont know when they will say some shit crazy enough to make you want to bash their brains in but then you cant really come too hard becaue you dont want to hurt their feelings too much.

 

I appreciate you however.
thanks

Now before this post - your post by the way- goes any further of topic, I'm not your problem here.

Okay?

 

So EbonySunGoddess what's the deal?

Like I said I did not read all of it
But it seems to me that they are saying they have a Tribal right to vote a group out of their tribe and the Freemen [Freeman] people – some of them – are not Native or have Native blood so they are getting the boot because of that.
I don't see how that is racist.
Again I don't know anything about it but until you can give me/us some more information on the issue I think charges of racism should be used a little less.

I saw/read where some of those members were showing lack of respect and class but I did not read anything racist. Did I not read far enough?

Right now it seems as if you got jumped on and now you're calling them racist because you got your feelings hurt.

I could be wrong and I still don't know if I should care about what they do but to move this back on track because I feel I may have moved it off track let me ask you:

Do you feel that they have the right to vote as they see fit?
Do you think they are wrong in saying that people who have no Native blood have no right to claim monies that are for Native peoples?
Should I care and why?

I'll wait for your reply Ebony.

 

Hey Designer and Ebonysungoddess,

I actually wrote the representatives of the Cherokee Nation this is the response I received: It goes as follows sent by Sammye Rusco <Sammye-Rusco@cherokee.org>

Dear Ms. Everage,

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts and opinions on this important tribal issue. We appreciate your intelligent, thoughtful request for information. Many people have been misinformed about this issue and we wish to take the time to provide some factual information about our tribe and the recent Cherokee Nation Special Election.





The Cherokee Nation has long been a multi-ethnic nation, and remains one of the most inclusive tribes in the country. This will continue to be the case even after the recent Constitutional amendment is implemented. Everyone with a Cherokee, Delaware or Shawnee ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls of the Cherokee Nation is eligible for citizenship, regardless of any other heritage the individual may have in their lineage. The amendment excludes non-Indian citizens of all races. Citizens of all races who are of Indian descent based on the Dawes Rolls will remain citizens of the Nation. In this respect, the Cherokee people have voted to be similar to most other Indian tribes in the country by requiring that its citizens must be Indian. The Cherokee Nation has no blood quantum requirement.



The citizens excluded by the Constitutional amendment have been citizens of the Cherokee Nation since March of 2006, when the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court ruled that the Constitution had been wrongfully interpreted to exclude non-Indians listed on the Dawes Rolls since 1975. The Cherokee Nation Supreme Court wrote at that time that if the Cherokee people wanted to exclude non-Indians, they could do so by amending the Constitution. A group of citizens followed the Constitutional process and circulated a valid petition calling for this special election. Though some of the Freedmen descendants claim they have been citizens for more than 100 years that statement is not true. Cherokee courts decided to allow non-Indian citizens only a year ago.



The Cherokee Nation sets our citizenship through our Constitution, just as the United States does. Treaties govern agreements between Nations, but just as the United States does not set its citizenship based upon the Treaty of Versailles, the Cherokee Nation does not base its citizenship in a treaty.



In 1832, the Supreme Court of the United States determined that the Cherokee Nation retained its rights of self-government (live under our own laws within our boundaries). It is sad that 174 years later, the Cherokee Nation still defends its rights of self-determination. It is also interesting to note that these challenges to our government come not during hard times but during times of prosperity (land, gold, oil and now gaming).



Below are some commonly asked questions and answers relating to the Special Election. Since the results of the election (the Constitutional Amendment) have not been implemented, the following information is still in effect:



Special Election 2007

Questions and Answers



1. Who is eligible to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation?



A. To be eligible for tribal citizenship in the Cherokee Nation, you must be able to prove direct descent from an enrolled ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll – Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, Cherokee Nation. This roll was taken from 1899-1906 and was a census of Cherokee Nation citizens and freedmen residing in the portion of Indian Territory that is now northeastern Oklahoma.



Many applicants do not qualify for Cherokee Nation citizenship because their ancestors did not meet the enrollment requirements of the Dawes Roll and therefore were not enrolled.



Cherokee Nation citizenship is issued through natural (biological) parents. In adoption cases, citizenship eligibility must be proven through the biological parent’s direct line to the enrolled ancestor.



2. Why does Cherokee Nation use the Dawes Final Rolls to determine its citizenship?



A. Article IV. Of the Cherokee Nation Constitution sets forth the requirements for citizenship within the Cherokee Nation. Section 1 of Article IV states:



“All citizens of the Cherokee Nation must be original enrollees or descendents of original enrollees listed on the Dawes Commission Rolls, including the Delaware Cherokees of Article II of the Delaware Agreement dated the 8th day of May, 1867, and the Shawnee Cherokees of Article III of the Shawnee Agreement dated the 9th day of June, 1869, and/or their descendants.



“The Cherokee Nation recognizes the basic rights retained by all distinct People and groups affiliated with the Cherokee Nation, retained from time immemorial to remain a separate and distinct people. Nothing in this Constitution shall be construed to prohibit the Cherokee-Shawnee or Cherokee-Delaware from pursuing their inherent right to govern themselves, provided that it does not diminish the boundaries or jurisdiction of the Cherokee Nation or conflict with Cherokee law.”



3. Who are the freedmen descendents?



A. They are the descendents of both freed persons of Indian Territory (now part of the state of Oklahoma), who were the former slaves of American Indians who settled in the area, and non-Indian free persons of color who were not slaves, but resided in the territory.



4. When did the citizenship rights of the freedmen descendents change?



A. The 1975 Constitution provided citizenship to descendants of the Cherokee, Shawnee and Delaware Dawes Rolls, which was interpreted by statute to exclude the freedmen and their descendents.



In a March 7, 2006, decision the Cherokee Nation Judicial Appeals Tribunal ruled that statute was unconstitutional and that the 1975 Constitution citizenship provision was not clear enough to exclude descendants of non-Indian rolls. The Court stated, however, that Cherokee citizens could determine the issue by a specific vote on an amendment to that portion of the Constitution. An initiative petition calling for such a vote was drafted, and sufficient signatures obtained to put the question to a vote of the people. Freedmen descendents who were enrolled tribal citizens were eligible to vote in the March 3, 2007, special election.



5. Who sponsored the initiative petition that requested the March 3, 2007, special election?



A. The petition was sponsored by citizens of the Cherokee Nation. It was not sponsored by the Cherokee Nation.



In accordance with the Cherokee Nation Constitution, Article XV, Section 3, the people of the Cherokee Nation have the right to propose legislation and amendments, including those that set citizenship requirements, to the Constitution through a petition process. The Principal Chief is required by law to submit the question to the People when a valid petition with a legal number of signatures of eligible Cherokee citizens so orders it. To be eligible to sign the petition, a person must be a legal voter of the Cherokee Nation.



6. What is the wording of the measure that will be voted on in the March 3, 2007, special election?



A. The measure will appear on the ballot as follows:



“This measure amends the Cherokee Nation Constitution section which deals with who can be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.



A vote “yes” for this amendment would mean that citizenship would be limited to those who are original enrollees or descendants of Cherokees by blood, Delawares by blood, or Shawnees by blood as listed on the Final Rolls of the Cherokee Nation commonly referred to as the Dawes Commission Rolls closed in 1906. This amendment would take away citizenship of current citizens and deny citizenship to future applicants who are solely descendants of those on either the Dawes Commission Intermarried Whites or Freedmen Rolls.



A vote “no” would mean that Intermarried Whites and Freedmen original enrollees and their descendants would continue to be eligible for citizenship.



Neither a “yes” nor a “no” vote will affect the citizenship rights of those individuals who are original enrollees or descendants of Cherokees by blood, Delawares by blood, or Shawnees by blood as listed on the Final Rolls of the Dawes Commission Rolls closed in 1906.



SHALL THE MEASURE BE APPROVED?



FOR THE MEASURE – YES

AGAINST THE MEASURE – NO”



7. Are African-Americans with Cherokee blood verifiable through the Dawes Final Rolls allowed to become Cherokee Nation citizens?



A. Yes, as they always have been. Their eligibility has never been at issue. The Cherokee Nation has citizens of many different ethnicities.



8. Will African-Americans with Cherokee blood verifiable through the Dawes Final Rolls lose their tribal citizenship if the special election measure passes?



A. No.



9. If the measure passes will all freedmen descendents be disenrolled from the Cherokee Nation?



A. No. Freedmen descendents with Cherokee blood verifiable through the Dawes Final Rolls will still be citizens.



10. Are other people with no verifiable Cherokee blood allowed to become Cherokee citizens?



A. Yes, two Indian tribes were adopted into the Cherokee Nation. Under the Delaware Agreement of 1867 and the Shawnee Agreement of 1869, Delawares and Shawnees who can show direct descent from an ancestor listed on the Final rolls of the Cherokee Nation, commonly called the Dawes Rolls, are eligible to become citizens of the Cherokee Nation. This election will not affect citizens of Delaware and Shawnee descent in any way.





If you have further comments or need additional information please do not hesitate to respond to the Cherokee Nation Communications Department.


Peace.

Jacklyn



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Designer and Ebonysungoddess,

I had also written Marilyn Vann, President of the Descendants Of Freedmen of The Five Civilized Tribes. Just to let you know, all who are on the executive board of this organization are descendants of Freedman and do have Indian blood. What the representative of the Cherokee Nation left out of their explanation is that ALL of those who were considered Freedmen did not have their Indian blood recorded in the Final Dawes Rolls--it was left blank, even if the Freedmen had substantial proof of having Indian Cherokee blood by eye witness accounts, census cards--their blood was not recorded. However, those who were mixed with White and even some adopted Whites were listed on the Final Dawes Rolls as Cherokee by blood with the varying degrees of blood listed. This is the reason why the Freedmen are fighting this election, b/c many if not the majority of them are truly Black Indians in every sense of the term. They cannot get their card to prove they have Cherokee Indian blood b/c the Freedmen's Indian blood was purposely left out of the Final Dawes Rolls thank to the U.S. government officials who did the Dawes Rolls to prevent these Freedmen from getting substanial amounts of land and therefore passing down their legacy.

This is what Marilyn Vann sent to me:

Mrs Everage. (Note: I am not a Mrs.--Mistype) I am happy to hear from you. I am going to reply to you at length within the next few days if at all possible. I recommend that you check out some of the things on the cherokee link of www.freedmen5tribes.com There is a file called cherokee freedmen facts or freedmen facts . That will assist you in getting started. THe freedmen people have docuemnted INdian blood and some of the files on my website show examples of such docuemnts. (Tribal officials lie when they say freedmen cant prove they have INdian bloodd.) some are in a file called dawes.pdf and others in a file called unkansas1106.pdf. ILl better explain these soon.

Peace.

 

Thanks for the detailed info Jeverage.

I’m glad you stuck around by the way.

 

Designer,

Thank you for the welcome back.

Peace and Blessings.

 

I'm pleased of the clearification.

 

hello designer


i know this is late but my computer had been messed up for a while and i wasnt able to get back...not only that but when it got fixed i was too busy running doing stuff...lol

anyway if you read the first 3 pages (or even just the first page) its obvious how racist some of them came off and not only that it got worst towars the end with some of them calling blacks lazy squatters and saying black people had bad hair with buck shots in the back one of them went as far as calling black people niggers.....others kept trying to imply that me and my friend should go back to africa. they also kept saying that because we believe in the out of africa theory that we were trying to subjugate native americans and push our agenda off on them when none of that was even the case and they kept trying to bring up how much HARDER they supposedly have it than black people and some kept saying that black poeople complain too much. then if you read farther they kept saying blacks (the freedmen) do nothing for the cherokee nation and complain way too much. there was all kinds of racism in that thread. it really is sad and i think alot of this racism is coming from the "white indians"......because form what i read in the history books and read about native americans relationships with black people the full-blooded indians just didnt have those issues with black people...you have to remember most of the people in that thread are only from 1/4th to 1/16th native. a few of them are half native and 3/4ths native.

 

Very true. This mess is coming from Indians who are mixed with White, and they are downing and trying to exclude other Indians mixed with Black.

Peace.

 

Those White aboriginals have no place in the rez or anywhere else. The freedmen have just the right as they do. Besides their ancestors took their black slaves during the Trail of Tears. The Freedmen should rize up and make sure those White "indians" don't take over the heritage of the Native American.

 

right, the true indians are almost extinct....most people who call themselves indians now are either mixed with black, white, asian or puertorican (as in that thread).....that's what about 90% of the people on the rez are....mixed. it really is sad that its even hard to find a HALF indian nowadays...most are only 1/4th.