A white person's view on reparations

Interesting post. Just interested how most people think these reparations would be carried out. The author says using government tax money to pay black people. Would this not open a whole can of worms; especially with one drop rule in place? You would get people who apparently looked white going for DNA tests and finding they had 20% - 30% black blood in them? Would they be entitled to the loot? I don’t know..

I'm not sure how the government would calculate how much each person is owed, but I'm guessing the money owed to black people in America would run into billions. Rather than paying people individually, wouldn’t it not be better if the government were to conduct a vote or survey amongst the black population in the USA, and find out areas of the black community that needed developing. It could be education, or housing..etc. With areas of development chosen, the government could then plough an agreed amount of money yearly to meet the money owed to black people over a period of time. Think this way, the government would have much better control over the economy. Imagine if say 30 Million black people were given £ 1 million dollars each...and they decided to go on a spending spree (not saying they would: it’s a possibility though), there would be a high probability of economic (inflation) problems...

Anyway, I'm not an economist...it’s just an idea... 8)

 

I agree with this person in a economy sense. Good post.

 

1) There is plenty of useful stuff already posted by dozens of wwbm members (including myself).

2) The article anwers quite a few of the questions you have asked in your post.

3) Stop watching tv for knowledge and information. TV is for entertainment. Read a few books and newspapers that present liberal, moderate, and conservative viewpoints, and then come to an informed opinion.

4) Your "we get equal protection" line is why I call you a young thundercat.

 

1, I do not get my information from tv I actually go to school and read and research that is where I get my facts from.

2, In the article that is that person's point of view they even state that in the article, it could already be said to be a bit biased if thats what you believe then of course you would make it seem like you are right you don't wanna be wrong do you?

3, Like I said before I don't know where you are from so maybe it is different but where I am from I do believe that I am equal why should I think no less? do you think the government and everyone is racist, No less the law the very same law that protects you and everyone else what makes you so different?

Do not get me wrong, if my ancestors were alive today then I would be in tide to agree with the OP, but Well none of the blacks are slaves today. Why earn something that your ancestors deserved and yet you did nothing for is yet beyond me?, this is my argument.

 

"As I learned from reparations researcher, Ken Lewis, we even owe the success of the American Revolution to money generated by slavery in the colonies. For instance, Robert Morris, who made his money in the slave trade and trading slave-produced goods, is known as the Financier of the American Revolution because he bailed out George Washington's army financially several times, thus helping to save the revolution from going down in defeat from lack of money. This country's true history is replete with such facts"


This part of the article caught my attention. I actually went to school with a kid that was a direct descendant of Robert Morris....his name was Robbie...(smart guy...pretty cool...he could turn his face redder than any white person I had ever seen..literally beet red) and he had old family heirlooms from those days that he showed in class for "Show And Tell"...back in 4th or 5th grade.....if I had known then what I know now...I would have asked him for my reparations....jk,jk LOL

 

Do not get me wrong, if my ancestors were alive today then I would be in tide to agree with the OP, but Well none of the blacks are slaves today. Why earn something that your ancestors deserved and yet you did nothing for is yet beyond me?, this is my argument.[/quote]

My take on reparations is that a $ figure could never be agreed upon, and distribution would be a huge problem, and those are just two of what would be thousands of reasons why reparations could never be feasible. That being said, there is a strong case to be made for reparations even though no slaves that were directly affected are still alive. Surely you can see that the affects of slavery (economic, political, educational, civil, social, ect) were a MAJOR factor in creating inequalities between the various peoples of this great country. I live in Arizona, where there is still a very active Native American population, they recieve reparations everyday in the form of GAMING CASINO's. A good friend of mine works with an accounting firm that does the books for many of these casino's, do you know what a lot of tribes are doing with all that money? They are buying large tracks of LAND. In other words, they are buying back what was stolen from them using reparations money. How can you seriously argue against reparations for African Americans when they suffered the same if not worse treatment in the past and present as the Native Americans, especially when those tribal members who are profiting now from legalized reparations did not suffer the past attrocities?

 

The reason we won't get reparations is because to do that is to admit that blacks have been disadvantaged by the past...and to admit we've been disadvantaged is to admit that blacks aren't inherently inferior to whites....and that blacks would be in the same position even if slavery didn't happen.

 

I personally think the main reason the American government wouldnt agree to reparation is that it could possibly cripple the economy for decades.

 

you think blacks would be in the same position if slavery didn't hap---- wait...yeah I see what you are getting at, but to answer your question loki,


this is my answer -- > I got it from http://issues-views.com/index.php?article=2004 if anyone would like to read.


The problem, of course, is both slaves as well as their owners are all dead. Thus, punishing perpetrators and compensating victims is out of the hands of the living. Reparations advocates, however, want today's blacks to be compensated for the suffering of our ancestors.

If we acknowledge that government has no resources of its very own, and that to give one American a dollar government must first confiscate it from some other American, we might ask what moral principle justifies forcing a white of today to pay a black of today for what a white of yesteryear did to a black of yesteryear? We might also recognize that a large percentage of today's Americans, be they of European, Asian, African or Latin ancestry, don't even go back three or four generations. Are they to be held accountable and taxed for slavery and why?

Then there's the fact that white slave owners aren't the only villains in the piece. In Africa, Moslems dominated the slave trade in the 18th and 19th centuries. Africans also engaged in slave trade with Europeans. In fact, there was plantation slavery in some parts of Africa, such as the Sudan, Zanzibar and Egypt. Thus, a natural question arises: Do reparations advocates hold those who sold blacks into slavery subject to reparations payments? After all slavery, of the scale seen in the western hemisphere, would have been all but impossible without the help of Africans and Arabs. Incidentally, President Clinton apologizing for slavery in Africa, of all places, is stupid--apologizing to descendants of slave traders for slavery in America.

Though it's not politically correct to say, today's blacks benefited immensely from the horrors suffered by our ancestors. You say: "What do you mean, Williams? Would you run that by us?" Most black Americans are in the solid middle class. In fact, if we totaled the income black Americans earned each year, and thought of ourselves as a separate nation, we'd be the 14th or 15th richest nation. Even the 34 percent of blacks considered to be poor are fairly well off by world standards. Had there not been slavery, and today's blacks were born in Africa instead of the United States, we'd be living in the same poverty that today's Africans live in and under the same brutal regimes.

If reparations were to be made, then what? Would reparations payments accomplish what the 6 trillion dollars spent since 1965 on the War on Poverty didn't? Let's face the fact that there's not one thing anyone can do to change the past. There's a lot we can do about the future. Dwelling on the past comes at the expense of preparing for the future.

So would that really make a difference or are we just Ignoring the real issues we face in amercia? And haven't we as blacks benefited greatly from slavery as it is?
:?:

 

I could see that as true aswell.

 

Interesting reading, but it did not address my analogy with Native Americans. Present day Natives recieve reparations in the form of Casino Gaming, and none of them were around when the tribes were being slaughtered. Why is it ok for them and not us?

 

I got this from --> http://goinside.com/02/1/repairs.html



Reparation is compensation payable by a defeated nation for damages or loss caused during war. Federally recognized Indian tribes have the legal status of "defeated nations," and the Federal government has legal responsibility to protect and promote their welfare. Since the Indian tribes classify as "defeated nations," the issue arises whether or not they should be financially compensated for the great losses their people have suffered as a result of colonization.

The idea of monetary reparation is not a new concept, yet it partially stems from the notion that America is divided and is in need of healing. In an attempt to turn suffering into healing, money is the solution, which yields the reciprocity of fairness. Money can buy anything these days, and the notion is beyond absurd and appalling. Justice is not served by silencing voices, and money cannot buy or return dignity and self-respect.

If Native Americans were to accept any form of monetary reparation from the Federal government, it would simply undermine what self-respect they have suffered to successfully maintain. Accepting compensation would yield the idea that the debt has been paid in full, when, in fact, there is no possible way to repay Native Americans. It will simply make the Federal government happy in knowing that the Native Americans have been pacified, and they should have nothing else to complain about, when indeed they do.

In short, from what I understand is Native Americans accepted the resperations of getting kicked off the land that was once theres by the early day euro, with that the early/later americans didn't want to seem like the bad guy and gave the Indians resperations, once the Indians took this debt american's history of what they did was officially wiped clean and was in the clear,

This differs greatly from African American, because as opposed to the Indians we on the other hand had Improved not decay away like the Indians did and we actually benefited from slavery as opposed to the Indians who actually did a whole lot worse after the aftermath thus being classified as "defeated nations" and this is why they continue to do so. This is the close I can get to answering your question loki....hoped I some how did..

 

Wow, it seems we will most certainly have to agree to disagree here. Native americans most certainly accept money (they are allowed Casinos) as payment for past attrocities, period, that's called reparations no matter how you designate them. As far as us "benefitting" from slavery, that statement is so inflamatory and bereft of any intelligence I can't even muster a retort. Slavery was the most brutal, hellish genocide that the world has ever seen, with far reaching repercussions that have split the very fabric of this country since its inception and continue to do so today. And please don't hand me this crap about the slaves being better off here than if they stayed in Africa, that is a strawman argument that does not take into effect that they were seen and treated as CHATTEL and not human beings with NO rights. The gains we as a people have made here in America have come with the highest cost BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS.

Good lord, I better go for a ride on my horse to calm down.

 

So you do believe that we would be better off then?

Thats hard to say.

Dont think we as a people wouldn't be doing what we are doing if it did not.

Yeah this is a touchy topic and everyone have there own beliefs here it seems which I have no problem with that.

And I would like to say it paid off, what do you think the ancestors of yesterday were to say today?

didn't mean for you to be all like that but you wanted me to answer your question, so I did the best I could. :?

 

While this article tries to make some solid points against reparations, it misses the mark in quite a few areas and makes lots of assumptions.

1) Just as there is no statute of limitations on murder, there shouldnt be one on genocide (which is murder), either.

2) To say that most blacks are solidly in the middle class is insane. How can he say that with a straight face when even by his own account 34% of blacks are in poverty...and only 18% of blacks have a bachelor's degree?

3) Just because african nations sold slaves, does that justify the US being an accomplice in the slave trade? (Just because something's for sale, doesnt mean you should or have the right to buy it.)

4) To assume that the african american population would be in poverty - everything being equal - just because large parts of africa are today is completely idiotic! (And lets not discount european colonization's effect on today's africa.) First and foremost, a country's greatest assest is its people! There is no substitute for manpower and knowledge that a country must have in order to sustain itself.

Paraguay, after losing the Triple Alliance War with Brazil and Argentina, saw its total population cut in half and 90% of its male population lay dead! Even after opening its borders to any and all immigrants, it took almost 40 years for their population to get to its pre-war level. Many historians would argue that Paraguay hasnt (and never can) fully recover from huge toll the war inflicted on its population.

Reparations would not be "handouts." It would be money earned by our forefathers for labor they provided (that this country was built on) that they were never compensated for. The fact that the united states government decided to wait over 400 years to make payment for that labor doesnt relieve them of their debt!


When it comes to slavery, "let bygones be begones" does not apply!

 

what? then why did you put it up for sale?

If you read the article which it seems otherwise, the author was saying in world class.
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Wait, you are saying that you want resperations in something you yourself didn't even earn, but then you are saying that in itself wont be fully enough? Money you yourself didn't earn is a handout... :roll:

 

Loki, some people are determined to see the glass as half full...even when its filled with dirty water!

 

Why do you undermind people with a different prospectives as you? Or is it you who see it as half full.

 

Reparations doesn't have to be cold hard cash. This is the problem with the debate.....everyone gets so fired up thinking that billions or trillions of dollars will be handed to black folks.

I think what might happen (if it ever happens) is that blacks might get their college educations (or at least some part) paid for...if they decide to go to school......there could be other initiatives...but it would be something along those lines....not just handing over a bunch of cash to blacks.


The real problem I have is....why are people so upset that some blacks actually wouldn't mind receiving reparations??

I've heard a lot of people say that "poor blacks are just going to go out and spend the money on rims, cigarettes and women." Since when do non-blacks give a damn about the spending habits of black people.

A lot of the states are unwilling to even acknowledge that slavery happened....a true sign of guilt....they know that by admitting the "original sin"...the Pandora's Box that is reparations could be opened. Yet this nation will bring up 9/11 every chance it gets.


This country is all about justice....but justice hasn't really been served. If I commit rape and murder in 2008 but don't get caught until 2028....I'm still going to have to serve a lengthy prison sentence. Time doesn't erase a crime....it only fades the memory of said crime.



WHAT IS OWED TO AMERICA....

Native Americans = nothing

Blacks = nothing (we owe our ancestors....reparations isn't about blacks that are living today...it's about justice and a sincere acknowledgement of what happened yesterday)

 

Something about this guy is fishy....