Does the USA like David Beckham?

Sup,one man can't help his country win the World Cup.

 

Cris, thanks for taking the time to explain it for me. :wink: After hearing you guys talk about some of these players, and how good they are, and also the premier leagues that you talk about, i'm thinking that maybe i'll give it a look sometime. If they're scoring some goals, i just might start liking it a bit more lol. By the way, is this guy Ronaldinho like Hot Sauce, but with a soccer ball?? That's what i keep hearing about him. :lol:

 

[quote='Sup.]

Not that I said he was complete. The fact that you've ignored the mans superior long passing game sums up your opinion on the sport.

It really isn't....

You only say that because you see on the news how much the world is watching the world cup. It is the most watched, but that doesnt make it the biggest stage. The biggest stage is played out between the best talent. The champions league final, the big league deciding games between the best teams in the best leagues and the famous big rivalries - Real Madrid x Barcelona, AC x Inter, Mancheter U x Liverpool etc...
How can Ryan Giggs and Andreiy Shevchenko perform on the biggest stage?? By your logic it makes them mediocre when clearly they are world class players who have played on the biggest stage.

Winning the world cup isnt a factor in defining a players ability....[/quote]

Sup where do you live??? don't make me come there and kick your ASS!!!
Ok man, seriously...ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

Go ask Ryan Giggs if he would trade a champions league trophy against pllayin in a World Cup Final...I am not even saying winning it, I am saying PLAYING!!! There is nothing like playing for your COUNTRY in the biggest competition soccer presents!! Nothing to do with how many ppl watch him dude, get serious here!!!

I didn't say that the best players in soccer are defined by winning the World Cup, I said, by being GREAT in the world cup, whether they won it or not...
Of course, the big rivalries in national leagues are also important, but ask any professional soccer player what their ultimate dream is...and if it is not playing in the world cup and having at least a chance to win it, they must be playing Aussie Rules Football!!

And by the way, you talk about great players being defined by being great in rivalries like Real-Barca...

In the past 2 or 3 years, Samuel Eto'o has been the MAN in the liga (ttwo titles in a row, one pichichi title, leading scorer on his team, one champions league) and at Barca and he has killed REAL in the derby, except last season bcoz he was hurt...

and yet, you described him before as a "decent" striker...aren't you contradicting yourself then telling me that these leagues define the great players??? or is it just that you haven't done your homework??? :roll:

Conclusion: Beckham is really good...very, very very good...will NEVA be great! End of discussion (as far as I am concerned)

 

For the record, Samuel Eto'o has been African Footballer of the Year three year running. He has a Champions League medal and has been scaring the shit out of La Liga since he's been at Mallorca. That, Sup, is a world class player (and not an "average" one) and the only reason he lost out to Ronaldinho in the FIFA World Player Award is simple - name recognition.

Long passing is not the only quality of a good player. It is one, necessary but not compulsary element of the game. There are plenty of long passers who are average players at best. Equally, there are plenty of players who are not long passers who are fantastic e.g. Gennaro Gattuso, Kaka (he's more of a box-to-box midfielder) and Claude Makelele.

I really do not understand how you think that a player can be determined "great" if he hasn't at least performed at some of the most grand stages. In that case, why are Spain considered the greatest underachievers in the game? Simple, because with all the generational players they have, they simply have not advanced beyond the semi-finals of the World Cup. Therefore, they cannot be determined to be a great soccer nation. Sure, they have the two best club teams in the world and are a competent national team, but they do not rank amongst the best i.e. Brazil, Argentina, Italy etc.

Oh and by the way, Shevchenko is a world class players because he actually has played on the biggest stages. He has a Champions League medal, has reached the World Cup quarter finals, and has won the Ballon D'Or. Giggs was never a world class player. He was a very good one, but not a world class player.

Of course we both agree that the World Cup isn't a factor in defining a player's ability but it enhances it. Look at Fabio Cannavaro. Relatively an unknown and average player, his profile has been raised over the past year and is what has made his defensive efforts appreciated.

Oh, and Davids and Larsson were not great for Christ's sake.

 

I live in Bavaria in Germany. Me, My Father and my brothers have a "season ticket" for Bayern, were there 90% of home games, and many away

I only mentioned the world and european cups audience for a reason for you thinking it's the biggest stage. Again, it's the biggest stage for audiences, it is not the biggest stage for football ability. I dont see how competitions where Greece win the euros, south korea and turkey makes the 1/2 final of the world cup can be argued as the biggest stage. No knockout tournament represents true ability at all.
Even the champions league does not totally, although it does more than the international tournaments. Porto and Liverpool werent the best teams in Europe when they won, Barca and maybe AC Milan were the last 2 years, but the point is it is not as representative as a consistent league system.

And I dont think Giggs would trade the treble season for anything, his heart is not in Wales football, he much more appreciates playing for Manchester, where his ability is matched by his team mates, than Wales where it is not.[/quote]

Ok then, I must have misunderstood.

Yeah I agree most people will say that. But when it comes down to business, players focus on their clubs. For the vast majority of players, winning is just that - A dream.

I don't know what point you're trying to make though? :? I don't see how you can warrant calling Eto'o great? He is what..24/25/26? He hasn't barely started yet. As were talking about David Beckham, lets compare the 2. Beckham is 32, he is a 6 time English premier league champion, a 2 time English FA cup champion, a champions league winner and has acheived around 100 international caps and counting and captained a major force in world football for over 5 years. You dont think he is a "great", thats fair enough (and not the point), the point is its a fine career to look back on. Eto'o, or Drogba (I think thats who else was mentioned) ...how can they be great now? Even if they do twice what Beckham and Zidane etc have done. Theyre like 25 :?[/quote]

Lol fair enough..I think we have a different opinion on what great actually is, not how good David Beckham is and has been. I know one thing though, and thats in 20 years when the new wonder kid of long passes and free kicks in on the scene, he'll be compared to David Beckham

He is world class, theres no denying that. But the sport doesnt revolve around him and he is not leagues ahead of everybody else the way some people seem to think so.

Jeezz I never doubted his ability. But again, someone in their mid 20's cant be considered great. He's not even finished yet.

Again, I really didnt say it was. My point is, Beckham has made the long ball famous, he will be remembered and compared to in the future because he was world number 1 at it. Easily. (AGAIN, this is not saying he is the best overall.)

I think thats because they have never produced the same calibre of players as Brazil, Argentina, Italy etc (please dont go and name xxx spanish players who are good, really isnt the point) though, not because they have underacheived at tournaments. Greece won the euros, spain are clearly superior.

Well thats your opinion, and I disagree. Very hard to not mention Giggs amongst the best left sided midfielders of recent times. I could name douzens of people who have won more than Shevchenko, Beckham is one of them. You really have to look beyond winnings. Look at Alan Shearer's lack of winnings compared to ability, do the same for Nicolas Anelka.

Cant disagree with that.

Didnt say they were, I was just compiling a list of people who havent won an international tournament with far superior ability to another list of people who have won.



No need to stop debating JREM, I like discussing sports here. This section makes up for the moronic other areas of this forum