Emma Watson's Response To Being Called A White Feminist

I posted the wikipedia link to white feminism. White feminism is not a racial slur, but a term for the white supremacy and or white supremacists within the ideology/movement of feminism.

But, I do understand that many like to turn a blind eye to it. If you are interested in feminism, which it seems you are, then might I suggest googling what white feminism is, and in addition to that, googling intersectionality and lack there of in feminism. Learning about the racism, and erasure within feminism can assist in actually reaching gender equality/accountability someday.

White feminist isn't a slur, because any feminist, black or white etc., can technically be called a white femiist if her actions support white supremacy.

That being said, in regards to feminism being a journey and something to strive for, I can see what you mean to some degree. For you, as a woman, feminism is probably a good go to in regards to women's rights. I respect your choice.

However, for me, as a black man, and as a rape survivor, I have personally witnessed how the ideology is full of not just white supremacy, but also misandry, anti-blackness, anti-black male, and anti-male survivors of rape, sexual assault, and harassment, as well misogynist when factoring in the duluth model (which silecnes male victims and female victims of female violence and rape).

So, as I said, I understand why you venture down that path as it benefits you. I hope you will understand why I don't as that ideology seeks to erase my voice and plight.

 

I agree with this. I suppose I support women, but not feminism. Never met a feminist that was respectful in regards to being a rape survivor.

After a while, you just have to laugh it off and see it for what it is. "Male tears" was my favorite one, though.

 

Because they consistently use black and brown bodies for their agendas and are never present for black and brown women. Classic hypocrites. They don't see us as people we're props

 

I suppose, the best thing you can do as a rational adult, is to understand that although people are a part of movements/ideologies that are malicious towards you, they are doing it because the positives(at least for them) far outweigh the negatives.

I definately understand that. And I suppose it is the best way to empathize.

As I mentioned, I get the impression that it was written for her instead of by her. But, either way, it's her life and her journey.

 

Can you briefly explain to me how White supremacy is 'rife' in a mainstream feminist organization like NOW,(National Organization for Women), and not just from a historical context????

If we judged all institutions and movements by their history, we would all stagnate.

No Black student would ever attend a historically predominantly White school, or live and work in a state south of the Mason-Dixon line.
You know, because.,..history.

The problem is, we aren't slaves to our history. We can choose to move beyond and learn important lessons from it, it or become frozen by it.

Almost every major institution and social movement in this country is tainted by the legacy of racism and White supremacy.
Your position leaves no options except to divorce yourself from society in America.

I just don't like the term White feminism because IMO the term is a literal whitewash and used to slur any WW who declares herself a feminist.

Feminism as a movement is narrow focused in that it's concerned more with female empowerment and gender equality in school and the workplace.
Because feminism doesn't take on the causes ALL women are affected by, specifically socioeconomic inequality, basic education and criminal justice, opponents of feminism say it's a White supremacist movement, which I simply do not see.

In fact, it seems odd to me that we have so many BM on this site discussing what feminism is or isn't.

 

When has the feminist movement used Black and Brown bodies for props and never been present for Black and Brown women??

When anyone starts talking in absolutes, I hear an agenda more than fact.

The only schism I've ever heard between White and Black feminists is socioeconomic and the complaint that Black feminism is fighting for more issues culturally and racially that Whit feminists already own.

 

Quoting myself here but...

"It exists so heavily that the point of this entire thread is about some hollywood actor claiming to apologize for the white supremacy that is within feminism from it's inception".

If feminism wasn't rife with white supremacy we wouldn't have the terms white feminist nor would we even have this thread. As I mentioned, if you would like me to plaster this entire thread with current articles, blog posts, and more about white supremacy in feminism from the words of both black, white, asian women, then please just say so. But only focusing on the links that involve the oast and not those that involve the present seems rather odd to me.

As far as NOW is concerned, I will definately get back to you on that. But, ignoring a racist history when the racism is still present in said movement/institution is just ridiculous. Which of course you are welcome to do.

Calling out the racism and white supremacy in barious institutions is one of many ways that has gotten us this far. In addition to that other forms of gender equality have been created due to feminism's history and current state. But, it seems as though you don't want us to do that. You comment in regards to divorcing all american institutions rings quite similar to the age old, "if you don't like it get out" type of comment. I don't have to divorce myself of anything american as I have a right to be skeptical of any institution and a right to comment on the way history reflects the current state of said institutions. As much as you have a right to defend feminism in spite of it's current and historical racism and white supremacy.

It's almost like you don't read everything that I write and focus solely on what fits your narrative. That reminds me of a ideology/movement... I just can't quite remember which one...

One last thing, if BM commenting on an ideology that silences male victims and affects us negatively seems odd to you, then I don't really know what to say to you m8.

 

Emma Watson is apologizing for a name she was called because she was basically bullied online by a label she didn't choose to wear.

Were the women's marches after the Trump election, the majority of which were attended by WW, an example of White supremacy in the feminist political movement??

That's why I asked for examples.
People get caught up in what's en vogue to skewer on the spear of political correctness. For feminism to be stratified into different ethnic and racial tiers because apparently activist 'feminism' is a form of White supremacy as if that defines the entire movement seems outrageous to me.

That would be like my describing the Civil Rights movement as misogynist while missing the bigger issues.

Or arguing that Black and Brown people shouldn't use the services provided by Planned Parenthood because its an organization concerned with the sterilization and extermination of Black people...because of its history.

Since no one in this thread has been able to provide even a modest, modern example of the White supremacy inherent in modern feminism, I'll consider the current take on feminism by a segment of the left as a revisionist effort to discredit the movement altogether.

Don't people see how ludicrous it is to lump feminism in with Neo-Nazis, the militia movement and the KKK??

 

YES!
I do that with a lot of things because of how ignorant a lot of humans are. That goes for these pro-black folks that go overboard that we have discussed on here as well. Black people can't be racist, but they can be bigots, coons and bedwenches. Remember the articles attacking black men as the white people of the black community and labeling us terrorist and dangerous to black women? These were by black people that also wrote articles on BLM and articles against racism and white supremacy. Unfortunately these movements are infested with ignorant and terrible people that are more concerned with power rather than equality and diversity. You can be a leader and a voice without the need to control others. Something that these feminist have trouble with doing such as that teen vogue editor who suggested she didn't care if innocent men went down with sexual assault allegations. She is not only ignorant but she is a VERY, VERY terrible person.

 

Like I said, if you want me to post daily and current articles about white supremacy in feminism written by women just say so.

 

https://www.theroot.com/solidarityisforwhitewomen-part-2-on-rose-mcgowan-and-1819604768

https://theestablishment.co/why-the...womens-march-is-still-on-my-mind-bb08d3279f14

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/problem-with-white-feminism

https://www.bustle.com/articles/120684-7-things-feminists-of-color-want-white-feminists-to-know

https://www.hercampus.com/school/augustana/taylor-swift-and-white-feminism

http://afropunk.com/2017/10/peak-wh...owans-replace-women-n-word-tweet-complete-bs/

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3955065

All written by feminist writers about white feminism. I find it interesting that you commented on BM saying what feminism is and isn't. And that white feminism is just bullying. Well here are a few articles written by white women, asian women, black women, etc. About how white feminism is bad and is white supremacy.

But, I guess none of us are in a position to argue with them since it's odd that BM would say what feminism is and isn't, right?

 

I believe they're using the Neely Fuller definition of a "White Supremacist".

 

Why?

 

White supremacy goes BEYOND racial hate groups, it is an ideology that has been socially conditioned in this society to the point you have to remove yourself from this society to really grasp it. I have pointed out before in other threads how racism started and highlighted racial theorist that have indoctrinated people's mainly white people's way of life to this day. It's like this If a white woman was in control of NBC and gave women more equality at the network, but "ignored" it's racial diversity issues she is basically upholding the white racial dominance that the network had under a white man's control. Some of these white feminist not only think and do more for their gender, but also their race as if they fucking need it, yes white people need more opportunities. lol. Diversity to them is tokenism to us. They put one poc or two in a mostly white dominated place and BOOM they think they achieved diversity. When in reality it is still white dominant because that is how they are programmed growing up in this white dominated country. They don't have the same kind of energy against racism as they do against sexism because they benefit from white supremacy, the white supremacy that is apart of the power structure have given them a better shot at their dreams and aspirations than anyone else. That is what white supremacy has done for BOTH genders, some of them are just mad because of the way they have been treated by their male counterparts and the inequality between THEM! Understandably, but that is all it is. You have to call it to their attention that sexism happens to everybody!

As I have pointed out before this is a WHITE patriarchy, but some of them can't bring themselves to say that instead they just say patriarchy. It is like when I pointed Jessica Chastain's issue with part of CBS line up being all men, but she failed to realize it was racially dominated by white men and a black man hasn't lead a CBS show since Dennis Haysbert and the REAL dominance that CBS has is racially. When you point out some of these feminist racial remarks and anti-diversity issues they get defensive and refuse to acknowledge their own ignorance. If you are truly against racism and for racial diversity then they should always recognize it. Some of these modern feminist stay seated on racial issues until they get called out on it then they stand only long enough to sit back down again when they think no one will notice, but they are ALWAYS on their feet for women emPOWERment, because they desire what white men have.

Emma Watson in this post she made doesn't seem to desire that and mentions what very few feminist especially these celebrity and political feminist mentions and that is structural racism. She doesn't come off arrogant or ignorant and does what most truly intelligent people do and that is have and seek questions rather than "oh I know the answer."

 

I simply don't buy that argument at all.
I don't agree feminism is either a movement or an ideology.
I also don't agree that using the label "white feminists" for one set of white supremacist beliefs isn't a racial slur.The most important and meaningful word in the label is the one thats missed off!
I also don't believe Wikipedia is any kind of source to cite in support of such arguments.

I'm not turning a blind eye to anything, I just think it's a singular and fundamentally flawed interpretation of what feminism is.
You keep saying "in feminism", like feminism is encapsulated within one group or one set of ideas and beliefs, which I simply don't accept that it is.
There are groups of people who label themselves as feminists and espouse their particular ideas and views about what it means, but they do not define or encapsulate feminism, any more than Catholics define/encapsulate Christianity.

But can't you see it IS a slur, because it lumps all white (skin colour) feminists together into that one category, irrespective of whether they are in support of those ideas or not.
If, as you claim, skin colour does not matter, then why categorize it in that way?
"White supremacist feminist" fine.
"White feminist" (used to describe the same thing) not fine.
You could argue "what's in a name" I suppose, and call it anything you like. Tulip feminism... Elephant feminism... but the term white feminist (as you describe it) I believe misrepresents far more white skinned feminists than it represents accurately.

I actually think it has very little to do with "womens rights". That's just anoither easily-coined but arbitrary and effectively meaningless term in my view. There are no mens rights or womens rights. There are only human rights. That's far closer to feminism in my view, so far from being "a good go to" for me, it's actually something which, as a woman, I reject utterly.

What you have endured sounds truly awful. I certainly don't mean to be dismissive or belitte any of it (I could hardly call myself a feminist if I were to do so). I would simply say that I believe those things have no correlation whatsoever with what feminism means to me, and that I believe, sadly, they are probably equally rife across society whether individuals identify as feminist or not.

 

What you are referring to isn't feminism, it is humanism or egalitarianism.

As I mentioned before, I understand why you believe in it, and I am sure you can understand why I don't. Based in my experience with it as a man, a black man, and a rape survivor, I look at it from a different viewpoint since it is used to silence me (duluth model to name one big feminist creation).

But, I understand that you have your own opinion as it benefits you and you believe in it. It kind of reminds me of a religion for some.

But to clarify, I think that would make you a humanist or egalitarian, not a feminist. But, of course, it is your choice to use whatever term you want.

In regards to it being a slur, I suppose that is something you would have to take up with feminists. They created the term, not me.

As far as citing referrences, feel free to check the large number of links that I posted previously that discuss the subject. Considering that they were all written by feminists, I suppose you may understand where they are coming from.

As far as what I have gone through, I know that feminism seeks to erase my opinion on my experiences and or to use it against me as that has been my experience with feminists ( and the experience of many male survivors). It is a common tactic for many groups that have detractors or those that oppose them (it's used regardless of the movement or ideology). Nothing new under the sun really, but it allows me to see it for what it is.

 

I just clicked the odysseyonline article. The author argue that White supremacy in feminism manifests itself in the way WW place their cultural standards for what are appropriate forms of feminist expression, then goes on to make the point that Nicki Minaj is in fact a Black feminist.
LOL. Really??

I clicked The Root article, written by a BW feminist, and her main gripe is a tweet by Rose McGowan who criticized late night talk show host James Corden for making a joke about the sexual harassment scandal in H'wood, where McGowan suggested if you substituted 'nigger' for women, would that joke still be funny??
This was a no-no for the author of the article and proved her point about the cluelessness of White feminism. Next the author complained about the twitter boycott following the Hollywood sexual harassment scandal as something she as a BW could not do, because she needed her 'voice'. She followed up with rants about WW not supporting Jamele Hill when she was suspended by ESPN, or reporter Rachel Ryan and her treatment by the WH press secretary. She ends with the onslaught SNL actor Leslie Jones received on twitter for the Ghostbusters reboot and the lack of enough support from WW.
Still trying to figure out if the article was about Black feminist grievances or White supremacy.

The Establishment article was written by an Asian woman who seemed upset that the Women's March in D.C. was too White and too heterosexual, not queer or trans enough and didn't advocate more for sex worker related issues.
The author felt that seeing so many White feminists in one place was (uhfairly) intimidating, that many of the protesters didn't know who the non-White speakers were and was upset how the marchers praised themselves afterwards for how civilized and non-violent the protests were.

That's basically her critique of White feminism.smh
I'm still trying to find out how she linked White feminism to White supremacy.

I'm going to read all the links you posted, but so far all I see are a lot of little snowflake Leftie whining because ALL White feminists don't see the world through the exact same lens non-White feminists do.

 

Oh, I see. So, left feminism doesn't count? I get it. So, in the future I should just post conservative non-leftie whining snowflake stuff?

Your words remind me of someone...

Anyway, the term white feminism and terms like intersectionality are essentially from the left. So, I suppose we will just always disagree on this subject. No worries.

 

I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true.

My whole point is that feminism is not an "it". I completely understand your opposition to those who would argue otherwise. I oppose that too.

Please don't suggest my opinions are based on what benefits me. That's actually really offensive.
I can see why you equate feminism with religion. Your posts so far all indicate that. I can only say that I don't believe feminism is remotely like religion. I find that view quite ironic in fact, as most religions are the antithesis of feminism.

It's interesting you use the term humanist. I am indeed. I'm actually one of the founder members of the British Humanist Society.
However humanism IS an ideology and set of beliefs whereas feminism is not, in my view.
Humanism is not subjective, it's a deliberate attempt to NOT be subjective, whereas feminism (as, I believe, Emma Watson is trying to say in the OP) is almost entirely subjective.
There are definite parallels and overlaps though (anti-religion etc).

LOL nobody is claiming you invented the term. I'm just saying it's misleading and unrepresentative and ought to be condemned rather than subscribed to.
I suggest it'd be more accurate to say it was created by white supremacists, than by feminists.

The opposite.
You are exemplifying everything which I believe is fundamentally wrong here.
Femninists aren't the problem, white supremacists are.

As I said, I think at root you are misusing the term feminist here. Or at best are using a very broad term to describe a small minority.
I'm certainly not here to argue semantics either way. Merely to point out that I think Emma Watson's views as expressed in the OP are insightful, and on the money.
I think we'd all be better off if more people (feminists and non) thought that way.

 

Based off of your comments there is the definition of feminism, what feminism actually does, and what you feel feminism is.

I am not basing my opinions on what you individually feel feminism is. I am basing it on both the definition and what it does. I can't begin to know what you feel feminism is to you, and although I don't want to know, I understand and support your right to feel that way.

But, as I said, I am not talking about your individual definition of feminism, just the regular definition as it pertains to the things feminism does and has done.

I hope that explains it as I meant no offense to your personal definition.