"Obama Admin (will) mandate Racism in Schools": Mona Charen

Interesting perspective. Frankly, this may encourage kids to act up, fearing no repercussions for misbehavior. Tough being a teacher today, IMO. (yes, it's a long read)

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Mona Charen's column is released once a week.
By Mona Charen 20 hours ago

The Departments of Education and Justice have teamed up to make the lives of students in tough neighborhoods even tougher. Framed as a measure to combat discrimination against black and Hispanic children, the guidelines issued by the Obama administration about school discipline will actually encourage racial discrimination, undermine the learning environments of classrooms and contribute to an unjust race-consciousness in meting out discipline.

Claiming that African-American and Hispanic students are more harshly disciplined than whites for the same infractions, the Obama administration now advises that any disciplinary rule that results in a "disparate impact" on these groups will be challenged by the government.

"Disparate impact" analysis, as we've seen in employment law, does not require any intentional discrimination. It means, for example, that if an employer asks job seekers to take a test, and a larger percentage of one ethnic group fails the test than another, that the test is de facto discriminatory because it has a "disparate impact."

In the school context, the federal government is now arguing that if a disciplinary rule results in more black, Hispanic or special education kids being suspended or otherwise sanctioned, the rule must be suspect. The "Dear Colleague" letter explains that a disciplinary policy can be unlawful discrimination, even if the rule is "neutral on its face ... and is administered in an evenhanded manner," if it has a "disparate impact" on certain ethnic and other groups.

The inclusion of special education students is particularly perverse, as special ed students frequently get that designation because their emotional disturbances cause them to misbehave in various ways. So if a rule against, say, knocking over desks, is found to be violated more frequently by special ed than regular ed students, then the rule must be questioned? That's circular.

As the CATO Institute's Walter Olson notes, the federal guidelines pass over one example of disparate impact with no comment — namely the dramatically more males than females who face disciplinary action nationwide. If we are to judge a rule's lawfulness by the disparate impact on males, no rule would survive the inquiry. Is it possible that more boys misbehave in the classroom than girls? To ask this question is to venture into an area the federal government would have us avoid. Actual infractions by individuals are not the issue. We must have group justice, not individual justice.

We've actually been down this road many times before. Various state and federal agencies have raised concerns about the large numbers of black and Hispanic students facing disciplinary action. Such concerns helped to generate the rigid "zero tolerance" policies the administration now condemns. Zero tolerance is a brainless approach to a subject that requires considerable finesse and deliberation, but the disparate impact rule is even more pernicious.

Under the new dispensation, teachers, principals and other officials will have to pause before they discipline, say, the fourth black student in a month. "How will this look to the feds?" they'll ask themselves. Will the student's family be able to sue us? A variety of solutions to the federally created problem will present themselves. School officials can search out offenses by white and Asian students to make the numbers come out right. Asian students are disciplined at rates far below any other ethnic group. Is this due to pro-Asian bias in our schools, or is it because Asians commit many fewer infractions? Oops, there we go into territory forbidden by the federal guidelines.

Another solution will be to ignore misbehavior by blacks and Hispanics. For classes with large numbers of minority students, this guarantees that the learning environment for the kids who actually want to learn will be impaired as teachers — reluctant to remove troublesome students — expend precious time on kids who are rude, threatening, loud or otherwise disruptive. Every minute of the school day taken up by bad kids is taken away from good kids. It's a true zero-sum game.

So the Obama administration's pursuit of group justice actually leads to injustice to individual students. Whites and Asians will be disciplined more than they merit it by their conduct, and fewer students of all groups will get the kind of classroom atmosphere that is conducive to learning. Even the students who get a pass on their bad conduct are disserved, as they will not have learned that disrespectful language, tardiness and even violence are unacceptable in society.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-mandates-racism-schools-080000319.html

COPYRIGHT 2014

 

Further proof that Con-servatives will believe anything as long as it caters to their paranoid and warped delusional mental state. This is not a news piece but an opinion piece. I read it and there is nothing cited to back up her claims. She makes all of these accusations and we are just supposed to take her word for it.

There was a time when, although I did not agree with them politically, I respected con-servative beliefs. But, increasingly, I find that being less and less so. The things they think and the and how easily they are manipulated defies logic.

Bliss, I don't know you. And, honestly, there is nothing wrong with being conservative. But, you should always take the time to double check your news sources and make it a point read the original documents, speeches, press releases, laws, etc ... they reporting on.

And I say that to not only you, as a conservative, but also to my liberal brothers and sisters.

 

Yes, you definitely do not know Bliss or you would know why I found your admonition to be rather humorous. No offense, Samson.

 

I'm glad samson said it. The statistics That I recall agreed with the obama administration on minorities being punished more so than non-minorities. This article is just garbage. The racism was already placed into the system before Obama came into place.

 

LOL.
Bliss is cool:freehug: except she's a little right wingish.:smt031

I don't even know what that article was about. Has there been a change in federal guidelines for school disciplinary actions??

There are no facts at all.

I feel bad for conservatives if this is representative of what they're offered as newsworthy from the right-leaning media.

 

Thank you!

Samson7842, clearly the writer is credited in authoring her Title, and if you bothered to read -- as you ironically suggested I do -- you would have read that.
Furthermore, the first line of the article CLEARLY STATES it is an op. piece. Further, it was also run nationally on Yahoo News due to the newly effective Policy.

 

Hugs to you, AB :smt061
And I'm NOT CONSERVATIVE dammit, I'm centrist with mad respect for the Constitution, with left and right leanings depending on the issue. :smt031

The change is the implementation of Federal oversight/guidelines

Here are some recent national figures of school suspensions, (2006-current), that likely motivated the policy...

3 percent of Asians students
5 percent of White
7 percent of Hispanics
15 percent Black

Another example? in your State's suburbs, an analysis found of the over 35,000 students who were suspended (or expelled) in 2013 — more than half of them were Black.

So there is a huge disparity, and when you factor in how suspensions disrupt a student's education process, including getting behind, forcing repeats and/or dropping out, the question looms are there mitigating reasons behind the numbers as has been suggested (ie: cultural influences, recent zero tolerance policies in schools, a lack of access to highly effective teachers/teachers with differing leadership styles) that can be better addressed beyond the school....Or is it just harsh/blatant racism by the teachers?

If not the latter, does this new policy of "we are watching you" unfairly target teachers to meet racial quota punishments- or else... Or is it justly putting them on notice to stop punishing Black students as much, period...

 

This is a great topic and I can go in-depth about discussing this. So I pulled up some quotes quickly that sound like they make sense. I can't make a long response now, so I'll come back in a few hours or tomorrow and emphasize about this. This problem is also prevalent (although different) at the college level and even in the workplace.

 

All the pampering and protectionist policies from our Government leadership will not be able to change the truth in the stats and the facts ...So before we besmirch Mona Charen or Bliss, her innocent conveyer, Let us summerize and commit to memory the net results of what is clearly a zero-sum game:


"So the Obama administration's pursuit of group justice actually leads to injustice to individual students. Whites and Asians will be disciplined more than they merit it by their conduct, and fewer students of all groups will get the kind of classroom atmosphere that is conducive to learning. Even the students who get a pass on their bad conduct are disserved, as they will not have learned that disrespectful language, tardiness and even violence are unacceptable in society".

Here are some recent national figures of school suspensions..... that likely motivated the policy...

3 percent of Asians students
5 percent of White
7 percent of Hispanics
15 percent Black

 

Re-read what I wrote. I never said that the author isn't credited. Let me break down what I said. The author comes to all of these conclusions without giving the reader any way of checking to see if what she is saying is true. A simple naming of the document or speech (as in saying, "in Obama's speech on ...") would have been all that is needed. That way, people reading her op-ed could go back and read the document or watch the speech for themselves.

So, Obama administration said this or that. Okay, in what document? What press release? What speech? What piece of proposed legislation? She (the author) just puts it out there with zero citations to back up her claims and the so called freedom loving, Constitutional reveling, real 'Mericans eat it right up. No critical thought involved.

Bliss, I'm not trying to pick on you. I've read your posts. You seem like a cool person. I'm just calling out a greater problem within the Con-servative movement. And, yes, you are a conservative. Just because you're liberal on some issues doesn't mean you're not. I'm pro gun and a bit anti immigration. Doesn't mean I'm not a Liberal

 

See, this is what conservatives do. They totally gloss over the question at hand. No one is arguing the stats or besmirching Bliss. I'm asking what policy? Where in her (the author's) op-ed does she cite the specific policy?

I could say the GOP's recent policies aim to all but insure our country will subvert the will of it's people and allow us to be ruled by major corporations. But, where is my evidence to back that up? I mean it sounds good to my liberal ears. But, just because it sounds good, and is my opinion, doesn't mean crap if I don't back it up.

If I said something like that, every Con-servative on this forum would demand I back it up. A conservative posts something like this and then they are being "besmirched" because their sources are questioned and they are asked why they take things at face value just because it agree with their political ideologies.

This is what happens when common sense Americans turn a blind eye to right wing extremism. America can no longer afford to let people like Mona Charen spout off with their unfounded and misleading propaganda.

 

Why are we getting side-track with conservative labeling…..instead of focusing on the net result of the policy.....That should be the essence of the debate.....You do not have to worry about conservatives on this forum,....they have all been run off or intimidated into silence.....Most folks on the forum shun being tagged a conservative .......
Wrap your thoughts around the morass that in the final analysis, your younger brothers and sisters are being done a disservice for as we state the author again: "Even the students who get a pass on their bad conduct are disserved, as they will not have learned that disrespectful language, tardiness and even violence are unacceptable in society".

 

Firstly, enough with the childish "Con-servative" name-calling, you remind me of the same dickhead mentality of those on the Right who call you a "Demo(ni)c-rat" or "Obama=ObeyMe". You sound incredibly immature.

It quite humored me that you insist Liberals are asked to back up their claims here. Hardly, if at all. As for your tantrum for proof, it's only been in the news since 2010 (three years), when Eric Holder first called for an initial Inquiry. The fact that you sat and demanded I do your work for you AS IF THE POLICY is non-existent is typical of a liberal. This article was an op-end piece on the policy, period. It's not rocket-science Sampson, to go seek it out if you feel the policy is a figment of the author's imagination. The POLICY which YOU CANT SEEM TO ACCEPT EXISTS, IS ON THE FROM PAGE of several papers, several major Websites, and has been on the very U.S GOVERNMENT'S EDUCATION WEBSITE - FRONT PAGE.

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...e-release-school-discipline-guidance-package-

So please get one thing straight - I don't take anything at face value, which shows you actually have NOT read my posts. 99.999% of the time, I research first, given the chance. So miss me with your blind-eye side-eye, ok?

Lastly, you will respect where I stand politically and quit labeling me what you ignorantly think I am, lest I begin labeling you other than what you have chosen to identify as, ok? You are a green-horn on here to know my history on issues of public and political discourse, nor do you know my personal offline political history. In a nutshell, 9/10, BOTH parties make me sick to my stomach and their blind sheeple followers to boot. Good-day.


http://www.edexcellence.net/comment...-distortions-obama-administration-doublespeak

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ccb884-77f3-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...-misbehavior/2011/08/04/gIQA5EG9UJ_story.html

 

^^^ There's our Bliss! You go girl!!

 

Good post!

ps: though Arch does identify as a Conservative.

 

Here’s the issue at hand, if it’s not racism, then either the student DGAF or the teachers don’t, judging by these numbers. So is it easier to just slap the student with a citation?, or are they bound by it by the zero tolerance policies?
Now in Academia and the Education System, who primarily has influence over it, the Liberals or the Conservatives? Who/what school Administrators created the sensitive zero-tolerance on so many aspects of behavior in school?
If it’s primarily the students causing all this drama, who has allowed a student to think it's ok to misbehave to the degree that it parlays into a “school-to-prison pipeline.”

Further Arch, as you reiterated what the OP pointed out, what of the kids who do behave correctly, why must they endure the mollycoddling of disruptive students who now will be spared from S.O.P discipline. Because according the policy, in 2011, 3 million students were suspended, and 100,000 expelled. That’s huge., if not for nothing, just the amount of bad behavior.

No easy answers...like I said in post #1, I don’t envy the positions many teachers are faced with today.

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/school-discipline/index.html

[YOUTUBE]zOloBfI9SGo[/YOUTUBE]

 

Bliss,
Is clear we have a problem in this country with the level of aptitude minority youngsters are retaining and are concluding their schooling with....What ever knowledge they retain to set for the standardized exams is poor and minimal and contributing to appalling drop-out rates.....The truth is they have different priorities in the schooling years than White and Asian kids..........If all kids are to subjected to the same code of discipline, obedience, respect for teachers and order in the classroom, the last thing minority youngsters need is for the Obama administration to come in, threaten and destabilize a system that has worked for years--- (to soften penalties for out of control behavior) in the name of GROUP JUSTICE.........In the long run, He will not be helping these youngsters to learn and accept the code of ethics they will need through-out life........

 

You are not going to win in chaning his mind Bliss. No amount of stats or facts can change his mind.

 

From what I understand the DOJ and Eric Holder want to make sure Black students aren't being disproportionately disciplined and suspended for similar behavior by their non-Black counterparts.

No one's saying a kid who cusses out a teacher or starts a fight in the cafeteria doesn't deserve to be suspended, but sometimes school districts have blanket policies for suspension that take no consideration for the circumstances involved.

There was an article posted a few months back on WWBM about Florida HS honors student Kiera Wilmot, a Black girl who was suspended from school and arrested for being involved in a lab that blew up in class,(charges against her were later dropped.)

Most school districts have strict policies about what kind of behavior can result in suspension, but even still these regulations can be open to interpretation on a per case basis.

If kids are thuggin' in school, back-talking, threatening other students and basically being fuckups, that's one thing.

Suspending 'certain' kids because they show up 5-10 minutes late for class 5 times in a row is where Holder and Obama would like to see changes in school policy.

If the bottom line is you want a child to ATTEND CLASS, you should find a way to work around tardiness that doesn't involve suspending the kid from school, which is 1000x worse than being late in the first place.

I know of kids who've had a very emotional conversation with a teacher, not threatening them in any way but being dramatic the way teens can be, and they got suspended because they let an expletive slip into the dialogue. 'That's bullshit','why the fuck do I have to do that?'etc....and for that the kid was suspended.

IMO that's flat out wrong without making an initial attempt to correct the teen's behavior first, like taking time out to explain they can't curse when they talk to you and if they feel they're getting that upset, wait before we have this convo when you're calmer.

All teachers bring certain biases to the workplace, like everyone else.

Some teachers don't see all youths as students, sometimes they see future criminals, and it affects how they interact, educate, and DISCIPLINE them.

Some kids are allowed to talk in class repeatedly and only get a shh!! from the teacher. Other students if they get caught more than a handful of times talking while the teacher is in front of the class will get suspended.

It's right for the DOJ and AG Holder to bore down into the high suspension numbers for minority students and discover if there's any racial bias happening.

Racism isn't something Black folk made up to make White people feel bad.:axe:

 

Funny, I don't see you or Bliss chiding Mona Cheren's much more incendiary labeling of the Obama administration's policy as mandating racism in schools? If you truly wanted that to be the essence of the debate, then you'd also call her "labeling" to the carpet and move on from there. But, you didn't do that. Probably, because it fits into your right wing narrative so comfortably, you didn't even notice how inflamitory it was. Which is why I called Cheren, and Bliss for posting it, out. Good for the goose, even better for the gander.

BTW, you say most of the conservatives have be run off the forum or intimidated into silence? That's exactly as it should be. Until con-servatives learn to play nice with the rest of us (not try to pass propaganda off as facts, not being inflamitory then getting upset when they are called out for it - and no Bliss I'm not singling you out. I'm talking about con-servatism as a whole. But, if the shoe fits ... lol), then they should keep to themselves.

You want to engage in a meaningful exchange of ideas and try to identify solutions to a problem? Great! But first, try not insulting the side you're trying to exchange ideas with.

I'm not done. ...lol