The Non-Believer/Non-Theist Thread.

Religion doesn't impede those things fanaticism does.

 

I couldn't agree more. There are many scientists who are also religious. The two can and do go hand in hand.

Fanaticism is a different animal altogether.

 

You're correct to some degree, however let's not ignore the fact that religion can often fuel an individual to lose any sense of rationale and compromise would often be ignore when it conflicts with one's own belief system.

And to further add (Bookworm616), yes there are scientists who are religious, but the ones who greatly value scientific discovery are the same ones who are able to separate their faith from science. Science is a secular practice and scientists, those who hold some spiritual and/or religious belief, often realize that they cannot be folded together in the same cup.

That's the core difference. One does not have to be fanatical to hold a degree of conflict when their personal beliefs are put on the line.

 

You are greatly oversimplifying everything.

The vast majority of people who believe in religion also believe in science. It is possible to do both. There are many, many religious people who think Intelligent Design is bunk.

It is absolutely possible to believe in both and live your life normally without becoming irrational.

Most religious people are NOT irrational (at least in this country). They're just normal, every day people, living their every day lives not bothering anyone.

 

I think Europeans have the balance right; culturally a religious group of people, but very secular (generally speaking) and supportive of science. I think people in the US have gone overboard (not all, but a significant portion of believers) with fundamental interpretations of the bible that don't hold up even under Christian scrutiny.

 

That's one thing that drives me crazy: wrongfully using the word belief in this respect. A belief is merely a position held without seeking any form of evidence. That's the perfect descriptor to religion, not science. Let's be clear on that. And on that note, I'll address your comments, piece by piece.

CASE I: Your claim is that "many, many religious people" find Intelligent Design to be bunk.

Answer: False. In fact, in the US alone, 46% of people here supports ID and Creationism. On a global scale, it would gravely depend on where you are. Let's take Europe for instance. While much of Great Britain wholly dismiss Creationism & ID, half of them also do not support evolution.

Those religious people who "believe in evolution"? Very few would acknowledge and accept Darwinian theory behind the matter, whereas the vast majority, with Catholics at the forefront, holding a bastardized viewpoint on it, where it involves a "divine hand," which can be safely assumed that it's sexed up intelligent design on a broken compromise. Now humor me again as to whether the vast majority of [religious] people truly find ID to be bunk.

CASE II: It's possible to believe in both and live your life normally without becoming irrational.

Answer: Half-true. People often live their lives normally, but let's not be PC about this and suggests that a belief in a supreme being, guiding their lives, is perfectly rational. If that's the case, then an adult playing the role of an adult baby, worshiping poo, or kissing a barracuda before leaving home can be considered normal and rational, all the while living a routine, normal life of job and family.

As for the "not bothering" part...I would have to digress wholly, especially when talking about politics. When you have states like Louisiana and Texas slowly cutting funding in public education, and rather allocating their resources to other programs, allowing non-scientific books and logic into the science classroom, voting against the well being of people through uninformed and often irrational positions, limiting equal rights for others, and then having voters, who represent that public willing to go along with that, while retaining a steadfast level of fear...

...something is truly amiss and apparently the fogged goggles have yet been lifted.

This is the problem I see here...people who are unwilling to see this picture. If you're too quick to question the motives of the government, and using outdated quotes from dead politicians who probably didn't believe in their words, yet not question your own beliefs and the organizations you belong in...there's a great deal of disconnect and a whole lot of intellectual dishonesty.

 

Shit like this bothers the shit out of me. I didn't realize this until they came up with stats about over 90 percent of New Yorkers wanting tougher gun laws then it occurred to me that these stats are all complete horseshit.
No one ever asked me or anyone I know personally what our thoughts were on these types of topics. They use their bs focus groups or biased samples and try to promote them as truth. Most people are agnostic that's what I truly believe. They recognize that there is something going on that is more than what they know but don't care enough to defend it tooth and nail.

 

Shiiiit that can be any ideology. How do you consider yourself a patriot yet either kill your own people or enslave them. How can you call yourself a pacifist yet eat meat or be a scientist and pray. Shit is filled with tons of hypocrisy and the truth is when people really want something at all costs they'll use any bs ideology to promote their cause. Nazis weren't on a religious quest everything they did was for Germany and the purity of the white race. During the cold war it was all about mother Russia not non secular beliefs. People are unfortunately easily swayed and manipulated.

 

There's plenty of truth to what you're saying, especially after the Penn & Teller episode on numbers and statistics. However, it's not as though numbers always tell a lie or hold a large scale of bias. It's roughly 85% of the time where it does not hold a bias, which leaves the other 15% in questionable terms.

There are proper ways to look into statistics and they don't necessarily have to ask you directly. It's a matter of examining your online activity now to determine what you truly believe in the matter of things.

The census is generally crazy with numbers and people are generally drunk with numerology, but it's a safe bet to suggest that certain algorothmic models can be put to the test to determine some level of truth. So even if the numbers may seem fuzzy, they come close to concrete as possible, as long as it's properly done.

This post holds some brevity of truth, but a little distorted.

A pacifist is someone who is against violence or war, so I don't see how eating meat equates to it, unless you label pacifists as vegans, which don't correlate together all the time.

A patriot is someone who [sometimes blindly] devote themselves to their country, yet can still hold the idea that people need control. This is especially true since not all countries have the same ideas of liberty and freedom as others.

Scientists are secular, which aren't the same as nonreligious or atheist. [Secular] Scientists can still pray, as it's a personal belief.

You are correct that fanaticism is a powerful tool. However, it could take even those who hold "moderate" views and live their lives normally to perform the most irrational actions. The 9/11 incident, those hijackers were living normal lives and were fairly educated people, and they were "moderate" in their beliefs. However, something ticked, and that caused them to do the unthinkable.

Had that one component not been the case, then those thousands of people who died on that day would still be alive.

 

That is a really powerful quote you posted, MorningStar. I saw Seth McFarlanes' take on religion and well... it pretty much sums up how most religious people I have encountered think.

[YOUTUBE]GVmdCAT7Rc8[/YOUTUBE]

 

...and why stop there? Let's make our own Christianity:


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"It never ceases to surprise me at the infinite capacity of the
human mind to resist the introduction of useful knowledge."

- Thomas Raynesford Lounsbury


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Hello, heathens.

Good morning any freethinking guys in Vegas?

 

Same here, being agnostic.