The Atheist Experience [Broadcasting Show]

No its more about people going out there way to "prove" you wrong and in the process call you stupid for having your beliefs. The usual atheist mantra is to make fun or those who don't believe what they believe. People like Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens come to mind. Its one thing to engage in meaningful debate but there's no need to belittle people to inflate your ego.

 

This.

I get skerred when I agree with you too much.

 

Let's remember that Bill Maher's a comedian, so he does it at least partly for laughs. Hitchens was a writer and cultural critic, so it was his job to point out inconsistencies and irrational views in the public at-large while being provocative. Nor do they acknowledge the problem with analysis of belief. It is by its nature irrational and as a result, resistant to analysis. Neither of these individuals is, while I share their atheism, engaged in a thoughtful analysis of either the irrationality of belief or the scientific underpinnings of atheism. They are supposed to piss you off. Take them with a grain of salt.

 

Maher did the documentary Religious with the purpose of belittling Christians. Hitchens often commented on how stupid Christians were. Its one thing to poke fun at individuals like the Pope its quit another to make constant jokes about people who find comfort and strength in these beliefs. They are both vocal about their beliefs as atheists so its not just about poking fun. What Maher does in terms of politics is poking fun since he makes fun of both Democrats and Republicans. He never pokes fun at atheists which makes it seem as more an attempt to push an agenda. Like all fanatics in all ideologies the assholes scream the loudest.

 

What's so very ironic to me is that the same people who deny God's existence and make fun of Christians, are the same people who, when life deals them or a loved one a painful hand, will ask a Christian to pray to that same God - the one that doesn't exist. We're not so irrational or crazy or stupid then. Jus sayin.

 

I agree. That is highly irrational for them to ask for prayers. I don't like to push people about their faith because the reaction is usually visceral. If you mock someone about something that defies reason, expect their feelings about it to also defy reason. You run the risk of alienating a friend or relative. And as an atheist, it doesn't make sense to me to anger someone for the sake of angering them, particularly when doing so will shed no light on the subject.

I'm not a sadist, so I derive no pleasure from belittling, hurting or angering someone for its own sake. That sounds more like your boy here:

 

YES! You do, Ore!! Along with all your heart, it's what you LOVE your son with!!! :freehug:

 

LMAO! Well, that won't last after I'm dead. That's why I show him while I'm alive, so he won't be left guessing whether I did afterward.

 

And theists don't? Now you're just generalizing a group of people. Not every non-theist/non-believer is like Maher and Hitchens. I admit they could be harsh and not the approach I would take, however I admire them for their honesty and bluntness. And not to sugarcoat their views. Honestly, I thought atheists like them made us look bad and that they were annoying as well. Then over time that changed. Now I could see why they say things they say because they care. They feel that religion is one of the woes in society.They believe religion made the world a worse place instead of a better one especially beliefs based on denying facts and evidence. You make it seem like that they do it to hear themselves talk and inflate their own egos. Which is pretty ironic of you IMHO.

I think religion is just another aspect of human ego and arrogance. I think it's all cloaked in humility. It makes you believe that we already have all the answers like how the universe and Earth was made. How we got here. Who created it, what they're like, and what their plan/will is. It makes you believe that deity loves and favors you(while there are other people around the world that are suffering), answers your prayers, and if you do everything right by that deity, when you die, you are rewarded in the afterlife. Living in eternal peace and happiness. I mean I see people thanking which ever deity they believe in for waking them up in the morning, finding their car keys, getting a promotion, winning sports games, and other petty stuff like that. Especially when there other people in the world that need alot more help than them. I dare you to tell me that's not arrogant and/or egotistical. Tell me everything I just said doesn't exemplify that. No different then believing that the universe revolves around the Earth IMHO.

And not every theist is like Ches. Many of them(not all) look down(atheists aren't the only one that does this)on people who don't believe in the same beliefs or belief system as they do especially people with no faith at all. We are seen as immoral, evil, lost, sad people who are destined for eternal damnation after we die. They also think that they're better than us. That's part of the arrogance. Here's something that really irritates me: When you call them out on it, then they play victim, saying that the evil atheists are attacking them. Which is funny because they still outnumber us and are still the majority.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not knowing. I consider myself to be an "agnostic atheist". Agnostic applies to knowledge and atheist applies to belief. I don't believe in any deities and/or religions, but if you were to ask me that if I had any knowledge that any deities exist, then I would say I don't/wouldn't know. That's the great thing about science. It doesn't settle for less. It allows you to explore, search, and find the answers yourself instead of making them up. It's always changing and evolving(no pun intended)unlike religion. People of different cultures and societies thousands of years ago couldn't explain natural phenomena because they didn't have means to. Therefore came in religion. I'm open to believing(not worshiping)a creator, deity, or whatever you want to call it if the sufficient evidence presents itself. However, I think ALL religions and belief systems are wrong. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I don't think man can actually comprehend a deity. Atleast not yet. I think no ones has it right. For example, I think Christianity is just as mythological as Greek and Norse mythology(s). If there is a deity then I would have a more deistic(meaning one that doesn't do divine intervention and/or protection)view of it. You may call that arrogant, but I just think it's more plausible.

 

Pffft, not me! I rather you not.

And they probably weren't atheists to begin with or they probably changed their views. lol

 

Sometimes I try to open myself up to the possibility of a higher power or a god. Normally some smug religious a-hole reminds me that it is man made and probably a load of poo. Then my OCD kicks in and I realize that everything turned out a certain way for good or bad because of the choices I made and nothing else. I think religion works for a lot of people and a lot of people use it to kill, rape, enslave etc. It is what it is. If people didn't have religion (or the lack their of) to be smug bastards they would just find something else. I personally grew up with Christianity from my father and Judaism from my mother. And I am not a part of either. But, it is nice to have a background that makes you understand why some people do nice things and why some do terrible things as far as those two religious backgrounds go.

 

All theists actually. If there were people that still believed in Zeus and/or Thor, I guarantee you he'd make fun of them too.

Personally, I don't think theists are idiots(atleast not all of them lol). I think just they're wrong. I also think that many them have been indocterine for years, they're cognitive dissonance kicks in and makes it hard for them the change their views.

 

You've been repped for this superb post.

 

Informing someone on what they are supposed to do as an atheist sounds a bit like dogma. Dogma that you have set for yourself and others and what you feel they should abide by with no real reference. Yes it is starting to sound a bit like dogma. Your opinion does not make you an authority neither does your age and the time you decided to become one (LOL, rabbis do this one all of the time).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dogma

something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative

a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

 

You can't stop me. Nanny, nanny, boo, boo!

 

I keep saying I'm going to get out of this thread....Lol

This was a good post. I don't agree with most of it, but I appreciate your honesty. It's what you believe and I respect that.

 

First off enough of the slants on my ego. I don't ever post with the intention of inflating my own ego because if I did I would cater more to delicate sensibilities not what I actually think in the context of a particular debate. I also don't claim to be right on all things, a lot of times I acknowledge that its my opinion and nothing else.
Back to the task at hand atheists claim to have intellectual superiority over theists and that's why I hold them more accountable than Christians. Christians claim to have moral superiority but if you are of an intellectual mind how does it serve you to debate people on something you think is a delusion. What do you lose by letting them believe what they want unless it encroaches on your own life. In a lot of cases that I notice people like Maher or Hitchens don't care about what religion is doing to society because its not religion its fanaticism. The vast majority of people who follow the Abrahamic religions are peaceful people who just want to worship and the fanatics give the rest a bad name. I assume the same happens with atheists but it would be nice if more were like O who is quiet about the shit and doesn't feel the need to call someone dumb for believing in a deity.
And something you guys fail to recognize is religion really does serve a noble and worthwhile purpose, it gives a moral compass to people who wouldn't have it otherwise, yes I get you and MS don't need it but its not all about you others do, it also gives people the internal strength to move past hardship. Looking through slave history in this country I would surmise that blacks would have been slaves for much longer without it. A strong belief in God gave so many the courage to do what was right at a time where it was easier to just shut up and take it. Not to mention church was one of the few places where blacks could congregate back then allowing them to have some type of community as well as the bible giving them the opportunity to read when they weren't allowed other reading material.
And ALL religions aren't wrong like you said you don't have the knowledge to truly support that statement. I think the Buddahist religion is on a really good track, along with Confucionism so if you have an issue with the Judeo Christian religions keep it specific to those.
Personally I think you like MS probably had religion crammed down your throat when you were young so you have a very colored perception on the topic.
To me whatever gives people strength community and a sense of altruism is all good. Atheism doesn't offer that in my opinion. Most people need a belief system there's a reason why nearly every culture has one so if you don't believe that's cool but how about just leaving those who do believe the fuck alone. Same goes for fanatics like people from the Westboro Church.

 

It definitely didn't seem that way. Most of the film seem to concentrate on Christians. I think that atheists are so focused on JudeoChristian religions that's all they see and from those religions only the negative. I personally will not claim to know what is true or not but I do see the value religion has played. And that bullshit argument that people have been killed for God more than any other reason is so beyond played out. More people have been killed because of conquest and the acquisition of wealth by wealthy men who manipulated people with their own faith. Like the Nazis showed us if its not religion it'll be some other type of indoctrinization.

 

You've really fell off on the deep end on this one, my friend, so I'll take the liberty to address some measures you have on your post here, minus the fundamental mishaps on your claiming to admit you're wrong on certain things [which you rarely, rarely do].

1. I hardly find any merit on your intellectual superiority vs. moral superiority argument as they are two vastly different things. The former speaks on gaining knowledge about life as we know it and the latter holds a particular sense of what's right and what's wrong. Atheists and religious-minded people possess such traits, so assigning one trait for one collective group and another to the other comes off as highly disingenuous.

And on that note, the very reason why atheists would often engage in intellectual debates with fundamentalist or high-believing Christians simply because we can clearly see that there is a rational minded person somewhere beneath the shell of faith. It's the simple fact that we acknowledge that there are smart people of faith who are educated on certain matters and can unconsciously waiver their beliefs when engaging in more practical situations. And for the record, even fundamentalist Christians are particular guilty of this too.

2. The fundamentalists maybe the minority [albeit by not much of a percentage difference], but they are a growing minority and the most vocal above all and people like yourself fail to recognize that or refuse to acknowledge it. It would be one thing if they simply practice their fundamentalist activities at home, but when it's injected into the public in the form of politics via lobbying and enacting laws based on that, then we simply have a disconnect with a nation that holds secular laws.

Seeing individuals like Maher and other atheists criticizing Christians, especially when certain atrocities committed in the form of Christian dogma [Anders Brievik, the killing of Dr. George Tiller, etc...], the vast majority whom are Christians will not own up that there's a crucial element that people would dismiss, solely because...they associate themselves in that particular ideology and don't want to believe that it's caused by it. But there is a psychological mechanism that is activated, which alleviates one person from all sense of thinking when their faith is questioned. That's a fact.

3. You're incorrect on the assumption that religion or belief in a supreme being
contributed to ending slavery. Not only it's incorrect, but it shows the lack of historical understanding of what the leaders back then faced, especially the likes of President Abraham Lincoln, who wasn't even remotely religious and not even much of a spiritualist either. His ending slavery was a personal one, yet a complicated measure. This secular individual was part of that minority-majority, whereas the majority of God-fearing individuals were adamant on keeping blacks in shackles.

It takes compassion and the desire to change things to make it work and it's less to do with a belief in a god and more to do with a moral understanding and holding a grounded foundation of consistency on the basis on what this country was founded upon. The Founding Fathers acknowledged this and yet, many people today chose to ignore this fact.

4. I'll acknowledge that black churches [which were separate entities from the larger congregations] operated on the grounds to help slaves learn to read, write, and do math, but the purpose wasn't a religious one, if any. There's little proof on helping slaves on the basis of faith, otherwise, this nation wouldn't be thinking about slavery and would be willing to help those in need. Rather, with blacks, it was all about trying to keep themselves from remaining in the cracks. They didn't really used Bibles either, though it's implied since it's a church, but we could very well know well that they had access to countless books, albeit through underground measures, so no, they didn't really learn to read from the Bible as much as the other books that they needed to build themselves.

5. Just because all religions hold a dualist philosophy doesn't make them anymore right than Scientologists wanted to free people from their thetans. There is a commonality in it all, but hardly a gesture that they are onto something. The supernatural and superstitious ideas have existed for a long time and when it was originally put into practice, it was for the more simpler times to explain how things are, but tradition passed down and through varied measures, mostly war, do we see these beliefs continue to spread across the world. Granted, I won't that some adopted it out of sincerity, but they are a small minority of people who pick and choose the good parts and dismiss the bad parts. Buddhism is by no means perfect either. You still exercise a level of guilt and shame in some form or another. While it lacks a god, it does however contain a spiritual element of guilt, which isn't quite as bad, but still goofy though.

6. Read this statement carefully: People would be more willing to agree or disagree and live on their lives if it weren't for individuals who are trying to change history and injecting religious teachings in the larger public. And we're not talking about the Westboro Baptist Church here. I'm talking about the wider audience who has more influence in the realm of politics here.

This is a nation where the vast majority of people are Christians and yes, there were segments where Maher interviewed Imams and Rabbis and he [correctly] exposed the follies of people who commit themselves to a belief and even more so, those who hold so-called moderate positions in these beliefs. And by that, we're talking about those who do not call out on those extremists, which is much more dangerous than you think.

And also, you're partially correct on the cause of wars, but there's a strong element in ideology too. It's a useful agent to control people and I can tell you that while those conquerors were more educated than the common public, they still held some belief in a personal manifest destiny.

 

Ches,
Two things are significant enough for you to chart your course as a believer of God who is visiting this thread:
- Acknowledge first that Atheist are gifted, well written, well educated, and persuasive......That is not by chance.........

- Also Acknowledge that as free moral agents and souvenir adults, their position is that they reject your God, his plan for you, and his importance to you.............And so as a child of God, you wash your hands after a good effort, bow-out with grace and leave their domain......