No one's talking about Steubenville?

My issue is when you and Trix say stuff like education and proper teaching all I picture is a teacher standing in a classroom saying "No boys forcing a woman to have sex with you against her will is bad. It's against the law and that kind of violence and deranged behavior is never acceptable" and to its like well no fucking duh. I will not deny its common place for men to view women as disposable, especially in our youth we see them as nothing more than someone to help facilitate getting our rocks off. Let me also add that the concept is heavily supported by women as well as men. Young women are often turned off by guys who show them the respect they usually want when they are older constantly gravitating to guys who don't treat them well advancing the idea that women don't like nice guys and want assholes. It's a very common meme we constantly talk about here and in other parts of life. However with that said I have never in my life encountered men or even heard about men who think its cool to force themselves on a girl. Aside from the pure stomach turning brutality of its disgraceful. Its akin to having to pay for sex or sleeping with a very "easy" girl. No one respects you for having sex with a girl who wasn't down to have sex of her own free will. Part of it, especially at that age, is the outward acknowledgment you're a lady's man. Women want you and other dudes are jealous of you for it.
Maybe it has more to do with where I live and come from but no matter how matter factly we treat sex the image of a girl crying and screaming in horror isn't a turn on. Its no source of power, I've yet to hear any man say "Yeah I put her in her place and just took what I want". Nothing makes a man sound more weak outside of abusing a child.
I respectfully hear what you guys are saying, but it simply doesn't align with our cultural norms and what I've seen of other men. Dudes with that shitty mentality are on the far fringe of society.
And that statistic about 74% of rapes being committed by someone the victim knows makes me wonder in what capacity do we use the word know?
A classmate who took a warm hello way too personally?
A one time date with a guy they barely knew?
I'm really curious about that one.

 

The last part is clearly defined in the statistics. A close friend or relative period, why you even speculate. The rest. I'm not sure why you are vividly are defending this. I think its very clear and the steubenville case clearly illustrate. And the crying etc 'is not a turn on'.. Sigh, it IS to rapists as it is NOT about sex. Humiliation and power etc is. Somehow you don't understand what rape is really about. Not sex.
To be a rapist didn't mean you are on the fringe if mentality, this is well known, not sure why you keep arguing this. Some clearly are, mist, are not, they are created by similar situations as steubenville. A clear insignification of such behavior by people like Sandusky, clerical men and and others that want to sweep it under the rug, minimilize it and re victimize victims because they have other agendas that over rides clear right or wrong. Thus system offends both women and men and could clearly be improved with teachings and behavior that clearly put a line in the sand that this is wrong. That something needs to be done is clear, Sandusky, steubenville, same thing. Needs to be addressed
Stop defending people you don't even have an ounce of compassion for.

Are you taking cause because men is the topic here? Nobody is vilifying 'men' here. Nobody, it only vilifies the men, AND women that has this attitude, nobody else. A very small minority. And this scary behavior affects boys and men as well. Is teachings and behavioral examples and clear'not accepting this behavior communally' enough, no, of. Course not, but I this a hell of a start that would make a huge dent in this problem.

I think your problem is that you get way stuck in 'men' vs 'women' . that is not where we are going with this. its PEOPLE. Forget the gender here for a minute and just look at it as 'people'.

Edit: the Sandusky case and this case has some CLEAR correlations. In one case the victims happened to be boys, in the other, girls. Both cases were sustained by the local system, fed these predators at the cost of the victims. This ' brushing it under the carpet' behaviors in the name of the almighty dollar needs to be stopped. And a no acceptance policy needs to be reinforced, that starts at education, bit for certain do not end there, its more complex that that, but education is not to be ignored.

 

It has nothing to do with men vs women don't reduce it to that. That's lazy logic I expect more from you.
I agree that in this particular case like Penn State its about covering up horrific crimes in order to protect profits, but the interesting thing is when it came to Sandusky he was seen as an evil person, mentally ill, a sicko, but here its a need to re-educate men?
If we accept the premise this is about power and humiliation then what kind of education would reverse that thinking?
You think competent men don't know that rape is wrong? Especially in a place like the US where it is completely frowned upon?
My issue with the "we need to educate men" isn't me trying to defend men everywhere but just arguing against the logic that men are ignorant of knowing that rape is wrong. That break from what is socially acceptable into a realm of deviant behavior suggests something is wrong with their actually brain. 94% of the men in this country don't need to be told rape is wrong, we don't need be educated on it. So when the percentage is as low as 6% you have to wonder if its something other than ignorance.
It's like murder, do you think people are ignorant of the fact killing is wrong?
I know you don't so why is this different?
I'm not trying to fight with you just discussing the line of thinking

 

This is what you're missing. Rape isn't about sex. It's used as a form of dominance. Often rapists are otherwise 'nice guys.' Look at the statistics here and you will see that the majority or rapists are men who are CLOSE to the victims. Not just passing acquaintances or strangers:

RAINN asserts that from 2000–2005, 59% of rapes were not reported to law enforcement.[33][34] One factor relating to this is the misconception that most rapes are committed by strangers.[35] According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by "an intimate" and 7% by another relative, and 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home.[36]
Drug use, especially alcohol, is frequently involved in rape. In 47% of rapes, both the victim and the perpetrator had been drinking. In 17%, only the perpetrator had been. 7% of the time, only the victim had been drinking. Rapes where neither the victim nor the perpetrator had been drinking were 29% of all rapes.[37]
Contrary to widespread belief, rape outdoors is rare. Over two thirds of all rapes occur in someone's home. 30.9% occur in the perpetrators' homes, 26.6% in the victims' homes and 10.1% in homes shared by the victim and perpetrator. 7.2% occur at parties, 7.2% in vehicles, 3.6% outdoors and 2.2% in bars.[37]

As for having a teacher tell boys not to rape, it's interesting that a lot of people are ok with telling women how to behave to 'avoid' rape, when in fact staying home with people who are supposed to love you is more dangerous than drinking in bars. In feminist circles, there is something known as rape culture, and that is what needs to change. In fact telling women they should have known better than to drink, shouldn't have gone to that party, etc is part of rape culture because it shifts the blame to the victim's behavior. If we can teach women not to leave drinks unattended, why can't we teach men not to drug women's drinks, not to tell rape jokes, not to trivialize rape? Every time you laugh at a rape joke, you are implying (and I don't mean you personally) that rape is somehow ok. That message is what leads young men to think its funny to rape a passed out 15 year old, take pics and put that on the web.

While this bit isn't detailed or subtle this gives a general idea of what rape culture means:

According to the rape culture theory[citation needed], acts of sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices. For instance, sexist jokes may be told to foster disrespect for women and an accompanying disregard for their well-being. An example would be a female rape victim being blamed for her being raped because of how she dressed or acted. In rape culture, sexualized violence towards women is regarded as a continuum in a society that regards women's bodies as sexually available by default.[23]
The root cause of rape culture is generally agreed to be the "domination and objectification of women".[24] However, academic theory holds that rape culture does not necessarily have a single cause, and causes may be localized based on other social aspects of culture.[25] For example, in South Africa the overriding "war culture" which emphasized masculinity and violence led to a culture in which rape was normalized.[22][24] A University of California Davis public document alleged that the enforcement of the following of social rules by women and the conditioning of gender roles were major causes.[26] In a study of date rape, gender-based miscommunications were held to be a major factor supporting a campus rape culture.[27] The general unwillingness of police and district attorneys to prosecute rapes where force was not involved or where the victim had some sort of relationship with the aggressor is also cited as a motivation for date rape and campus rape.[25] Rape culture is also closely related to slut-shaming and victim blaming, where rape victims are considered at fault for being raped, and it is argued that this connection is due to the presence of a culture that shames all female sexuality.[25] That some rapes are not reported to the police due to fear that they would not be believed is often cited as a symptom of a rape culture,[25][28] that they thought the police would not believe them is cited as a reason by 6% of women who did not report rape.[29] Pornography has also been commonly targeted as a contributor to rape culture because it is said to contribute to larger patterns of oppression. One of the ways that it is said to do this is by reducing the female body to a commodity.[30]

 

This makes no sense to me. Telling someone things to ensure their safety isn't the same as detering someone from committing a crime. Criminals (which rapist are) know they are doing something wrong, its done out of ignorance or carelessness, leaving your drink unattended is. Its no different then telling a young person to use condoms or lock your car doors. Don't leave your safety in the hands of others, protect yourself. As far as rape jokes.... look I'll put it like this I think people are intelligent enough to make the difference between dark humor and reality. I've had a tumor in my neck the size of a golfball but I realize when someone makes a cancer joke they aren't trivializing cancer. I also don't think joking about necessarily leads to violent behavior. We have to remember context.
I know women want to feel safe and feel as if they shouldn't have to deal with shitty men but the reality is education isn't necessary. One more time education implies ignorance of action, as if the person had no clue that rape was wrong but that's not the case.

 

There is an African adage which says when advicing the cat, do well to advice the fish as well. Teachers should educate BOTH boys and girls. The boys should be taught that rape is wrong and the girls should taught how not to be naive and be in certain situations and assume the tendency to rape can never happen because she knows the guy.

 

Is the Stuebenville insident is about a group of Black males raping a White female? If so did the police get their DNA? Or is it a group of White males raping a female of the same color?

 

Black & white guys. White girl, it appears. The issue isn't race, it's really about the cover up attempt in the name of football.

 

Dumbest shit I've ever seen. So rapist will see this and not rape people? Smh

 

And the award for Completely Missing the Point goes to...

TDK!!!

Go ahead, make a speech. :smt023

 

What is the point exactly? That people are ignorant of raping? Think about it. You are implying men who rape women had absolutely no clue that it was the wrong thing. Does that make sense to you?:smt108

 

Mmm, that might be part of the point. But you're still missing it. Let's see if anyone else gets it.

It is an anti rape campaign out of Scotland, by the way. And it's making waves.

 

Seriously break it down for me because it makes absolutely no sense to me

 

TDK, you just don't understand what rape culture is. We're soaking in it.

 

How so? You guys like most /nearly all men are foaming at the mouth just waiting to brutalize women. And as a man I can say with certainity that's far from the truth.

 

To women maybe, but not to men. Or rapists.

Most men who see that will not relate because they are not rapists. There is no rape behavior to 'teach or change'.

The rapists who see it will ignore it.

 

Repped

 

Nope. Now you are missing the point. Rape culture is how rape is normalized. It's catcalls to women on the street. It's all the advice on how to avoid stranger rape, which isn't really the problem, since most rape isn't stranger rape. It's the idea that womens bodies are commodities, that her value is in her beauty alone, and her 'virtue,' it's rape jokes, which are never funny, and which lead that 6% to think the 94% think rape is funny and sort of ok. Ithe the idea that women are, by default, available for sex, for comment about their bodies...it's the idea that men are 'owed' sex. It's a whole lot of little things which normalize rape. You're right, most men don't rape, but even you made the comment that a rape victim who went to a frat party should have known better. When in fact there is nothing wrong with a woman going to a party, and the only reason she was raped is because one of those six percent was there...and the other guys stood around doing nothing while they probably had a clue as to what was going on.

 

That is sad that one team raped one woman.